This APA is full of rules like that. It's more about "getting folks who can't run three balls to join our league and keep coming back" than being a serious league...

...and I don't think that's a bad thing. Nothing wrong with an entry-level, fun and friendly league. That's the vast majority of players, so that's where the vast majority of the money is.

I don't plan on staying at the Open level forever. Most folks do. Glad there's something for all of us.

In that context, I can understand a rule that says, "Some of us have to get up for work tomorrow, so let's wrap this up." Again, it's not the best rule for deciding a match, but it recognizes that this match is not the most important thing in the world.

I never said it was a good rule and it's not invoked for the championship match. I can understand why they have it, though and it may not be used throughout the organization. Our area has several APA leagues that have their LTC held on the same weekend. I believe it's usually 6 brackets so obviously time is an issue. The matches start at 9 and go one after the other all day using 9 tables.

OK, Now I get it: we have six teams in our league. The team that finishes first in the regular season goes to the regionals (in June!). The next four teams hold a playoff, to decide which will be the second team our league sends to the regionals. Last week, we won our playoff, aided by the fact that the other team didn't have five playoff-eligible players. Last night, we played the other winner from last week, for a ticket to who-knows-where.

Our captain was hoping for five equal matchups (SL 4 vs SL 4, etc), and he got his wish. I agree with his thinking, I think most of our players are pretty strong against players with similar rankings. I'm usually eager to shoot the first match and get out of there, but given what's at stake, I put my karaoke night on hold and will shoot when called upon. Naturally, I ended up going last.

God, it was unbearable to sit there for an hour watching matches between folks who can't run three balls. I was surprised that my teammates did not summon *me* for their timeouts, relying on a lesser-ranked player instead...but I'm new, they don't know me, I guess.

We won the first two short races. They both went hill-hill, so that's a pair of 2-1 victories in the APA scoring system. We're off to a good start.

I started my match at this point. We were doing a race to 4. I hit another awful lag, but he hit his worse, and I break.

The first three racks all played out the same way: I get a nice run going; I miss a shot with 1-2 balls left (sometimes I just couldn't past the traffic; sometimes I'd dog a shot, grrrr); he would try to run out a wide-open table; he'd miss a shot; and somehow, accidentally, miraculously, leave me completely hooked. It was the worst run of luck I've had in a pool match since I took this sport up again a few years ago. It was unbelievable. And my growing frustration only led me to dogging shots when I *did* have a rare chance to get out.

I'm quickly down 3-0 in a race to four. Forget about winning, now I'm just trying to get a rack to avoid the costly shut-out. I've won every match I've played in this league, with only one exception, which was a hill-hill match against a SL 7! I'm totally unprepared for this beating I'm taking--and the fact that it's been luck more than skill beating me has me riled.

He makes a ball on the break. Early in his inning, he plays a breakout shot, and slams into a pack of balls, and the 8 is heading straight for the side pocket with plenty of speed. Don't tell me *I'm* finally going to catch a break?

The 8 bobbles. Does not drop.

I throw my cue stick on the ground. This match just will spare me no indignity.

As I reach down to retrieve my cue, I realize what I've just done. I stand, approach the table, and offer a sincere apology to my opponent. I keep it brief, as he's still in the middle of an inning, but I emphasize that I *never* do crap like that, that I'm the first guy to complain about jerks who do that nonsense. He's still at the table and up 3-0 and feeling good, so he nods his acceptance.

I get a chance to get out this rack. The 8 is a few inches off the second diamond. I leave the cue ball almost straight in, just past the side pocket.

I dog it, leave it hanging.

He's got 5-6 balls left, but nothing in his way, and he has shown that he's capable of clearing this up...but he doesn't. He leaves me a wide-open shot at the hanger from about 3 feet away.

"That's good," he concedes.

He concedes? We don't do that around here. We're a league where most folks can't run three balls. We have teammates who may not approve. I don't even know if he has the legal authority to concede a gimme.

"Are you sure?", I asked, then added a self-deprecating, "Have you been watching?"

He assures me that he's certain I won't miss this. I step away from the table, careful not to disturb a single ball, incase this goes before an inquiry...but HE sweeps the balls down to the foot end, starts feeding quarters for the next rack.

OK, at least I avoid the shutout.

I get stuck with solids the next rack. Two of my balls are clustered on the center of the short rail, at both ends of the table. OMFG, FML. I'm running so BAD tonight!

He scratches, I get BIH. I play a rare BIH safety. I put the cueball behind one of those clusters, and play it perfectly, driving one of my balls off a rail to the center of the table, leaving him stuck behind, and frozen to, the other ball.

He fouls. My plan is to make a couple of balls, then safe him again behind the second cluster...but I get out of shape and end up near the cluster, so I abort the plan and safe him right away. I not only left him safe behind both of these balls, but he was frozen to both of them! The cue ball looked like it was wearing Mickey Mouse ears. My opponent had to laugh with admiration at his hopeless situation. He tried to get out and failed. I got BIH again, but now things are interesting...

My Mickey Mouse cluster is now a straight-in combo! I've got two other balls, the 1 at this end, the 3 at the far end, and the 8 back at this end, near third diamond. All his balls are scattered between the spots

First thought: Play the 1, follow it a little to get straight on the combo. Make these two balls, get to the 3 somehow.

Second thought: Combos are never as easy as they look, especially when you're trying to control all three balls. Better use your BIH to get perfectly straight on this combo. If you try to play shape for this combo and don't get perfectly straight, you have no hope of controling that first ball after it knocks the second ball in, and you positively must get out from here.

Third thought: If I make both combo balls, then turn my attention to the 1, I have another problem: the 8 is in the way of getting off the 1 and down to the other end to make the 3. They're a foot apart, but it's smack dab in my way.

Fourth thought: I don't have a fourth thought. I'm trying to come up with one, as I don't like any of my first three thoughts, but I'm out of ideas.

"Time out!"

Call my captain over. I don't tell him what I'm thinking, I'm hoping for a fresh perspective, so I ask what he's thinking. He spells out my first thought.

I counter with my second and third thoughts, finishing with, "the 8 will be in my way, and I won't be able to get on the 3."

He says you'll just have to cross that bridge when you come to it--see what kind of shot you get on the one, and how to use top or bottom to get around the 8.

This timeout was a big waste of time. I see the problem three shots ahead, and even after I spell it out for him, he still doesn't see it.

I line up the combo, straight on. It goes in, and surprisingly, I'm left with a straight in shot. I say "surprisingly", because I'm a moron. Any idiot could've seen I'd be straight in if I drew straight back from a straight-in combo. But I'm almost perfectly straight, and now three shots ahead doesn't seem so urgent any more.

I'm not perfectly straight, I can follow this and JUST miss the left (end rail) hook. And I'm close enough that I can load it with right and spin out of this corner. But I never did learn how to apply a lot of English on a soft shot, so I'm not gonna try to get shape on the 1--I'm going to fly out of this corner and get shape on the 3 at the far end.

I hit it.
The object ball goes in!
The cue ball gives chase, hits just before the left hook!
...but catches a big chunk of the right hook, knocking almost all of the speed off the shot...
...we're not going to get to the other end for the 3....

...but miraculously, I somehow lucked into a very makeable shot on the 1! My first lucky break of the entire match!

But as predicted, the 8 is smack in the center of my path down the table for the next shot. I give it the old college try, but the collision was unavoidable. The cue smacked the 8, and stayed within a few inches of that spot. I don't remember where the 8 ended up, but it never went near a pocket, thank God.

Now I gotta cut in this 3. It's an inch or two from the end rail, a diamond away from the pocket. I'm old, I can't make long cut shots! And the 8 ended up in my line of sight, I'm not sure I can get by the 8 and hit my spot. Oh well, gotta try it, here goes nothing...

...the 3 falls. I've got shape on the 8. I'm out. I absolutely HAD get out from here, and I did. It's 3-2.

Next rack is the same old story, I open with a 4-ball run, then **** it up. I explain to my girlfriend that having fewer balls on the table is only an advantage when you're running out, it's a huge disadvantage when you're on the stool. I've got three balls left: one is frozen to the 8 near the center, only goes in one pocket; one is near the 8 on the other side, barely gets past the 8 to a different pocket; third ball is free.

I don't remember if he scratched or fouled, but I get BIH. I pick off the frozen ball, follow down for the free ball; make that one, get shape on my key ball; hit it like God, it slides past the 8 and into the center of the pocket; bury the 8. Another BIH runout that I absolutely had to have, and i got it. It's hill-hill!

By now, all the other, shorter races have been completed on the other table, so I check the scores: the match is tied! The entire night comes down to this last rack! Can you believe this? Can The Kid pull off this comeback?

I break. Four balls fall! Two solids, two stripes. Stripes are the easy choice. The first three shots are easy, and I make them. The last two pose an interesting problem: the 9 is next to the side pocket, an inch away, an inch from the rail. It's a very makeable shot, except I don't want to deflect away from it toward the end of the table--I need to find a way to follow it into the rail and come out towards the center for the key ball. And I struggle with side pocket shots that have a lot of English, they always hit the near hook, or bobble.

I make the easy shots; I make the 9 with top right--but too much right! Instead coming out to the center, it spins down to the far end. Now I've got a tough cut shot on the key ball in the side, and need to lag down and back to the center for the 8, somehow dodging all sorts of traffic. I hit the right spot, dodge the traffic, but the object ball doesn't have enough speed to reach the pocket.

Once again, I've opened the game by clearing all my balls out of his way.

Once again, he misses a shot midway through his runout, leaves me a long shot on the key ball. I dog it, leave it hanging.

Oh well, I can't win every single week against decent players.

He starts cleaning up his balls, but gets WAY out of shape on the 8, not an easy thing to do when the 8 is near the center and the only other ball on the table is way off in a corner. He looks on horror as the cue ball zooms past his spot and heads off two more rails (!!!) towards the second diamond. He's either going to have a tough cut into the side, or a tough cut into the far corner...

...but that cueball keeps going...and like the eclipse, he ends up with a simple, straight-in shot into the side pocket.

Of all the lucky breaks he got this match, this was the topper. This was like one of those FU games in Madden when you play against the computer, and it says, "FU, you're not winning this one," and guys make super-human moves against you to make interceptions and force fumbles. I guess I shouldn't have dogged that key ball, or the 8 in an earlier rack...

Great story! Congrats on the comeback! We had our playoff last night. Long story short - our captain (SL6) swept their best shooter (SL7) in the first matchup. One of our SL3s swept their's in the second matchup. Our SL5 beat one of their SL6s 4-4 giving us an easy 8-1 win with me and another SL3 (also MVP for this session) waiting to shoot against their 3 and 4 that are left over. Quick night!

In our league, we have 10 teams. The first place team gets a bye to the 3x a year Tricup tournament and 3 other matches decide the other 3 teams to advance. The Tricup consists of multiple brackets with teams from other area leagues. If you win your bracket you advance to the Regionals tournament. Who knows? Maybe I'll end up shooting against you in Vegas?

Since I mentioned the Patriots' comeback: their coach said after the game that even though his team was down 28-3, he didn't feel like they were being drastically outplayed. Sometimes, he said, you're burying a team on the field, but it's not showing on the scoreboard; and sometimes, the opposite happens, the game looks pretty even everywhere but on the scoreboard. They never quit because they never felt they were being dominated in any way. They didn't think they're opponents were playing much better than they were.

I felt the same way in this match. Outside of a few dogs and a bunch of insane lucky leaves, he wasn't playing any better than i was. And if I stepped up my game, I could still pull this out.

Me throwing my cue stick was the moment I thought, "I can't get out of this trap." But it was only a brief thought, I was quickly back to plugging away as soon as I got another shot. Those two BIH runouts (the thing I practice constantly) saw my confidence surge, and his take a hit. Especially that second one, that required a pair of really precise, half-table-or-longer shots.

I'll remember this one for a long time. And since I'm still not completely over dogging, I hope I can build on this.

So you never shot? The match was over?

on those bar tables position is key of course but shots are so easy it is more important not to get bad position than to get an easy shot.
basically you dont play to get too close to your next object ball as too many bad things can happen.
you have to think ahead and get plenty of angle on shots as drawing the cueball on those tables is hard to do and get it exactly where you want it.

most players try to make too many of their balls when they cant get out. when you cant get out you want to leave most of your balls on the table and break out your bad ones and tie up his balls in some manor.

That's a great post. It makes me realize that most of the time when I'm out of shape, it's because I tried to bring the cue ball 2-3 feet further down the table than I really needed to.

Maybe I should start practicing kitchen-length shots.

practice that cue in the bottle. that will get you a giant improvement if you miss shots you dont think you should. you miss because you arent hitting where you aimed. which many times is your steering the cue stick around.

another thing if you ever watched great players especially the Filipinos play they look like they are hitting low on every shot. that is the way they find the center of the cueball when they line up. thats the first thing you must do. if you just stick your tip on the cueball it may not and it is usually not on the center of the cue ball. how then if its not there can you find one tip or so of english. and if hit that way you will be putting some amount on a straight shot that you dont know the english is there and might be just enough to miss that easy shot.

No, unfortunately not. Wouldn't have been good for the other team though since they had no one left to match up fairly against me and I shoot better than normal in high pressure matches.

This is one area that I've tried to push on teammates for a few years now. Running out looks great, if it's possible. I try to open up the table as much as I can early in a game when I have the opportunity. If that means playing a defense with three shots sitting in pockets then so be it.

This is something I never even thought to try! While I believe my stroke is very consistent I no it could use a little work. I'll have to do this from time to time just to get it straighter. Thanks for the tip!

Interesting matchup last night for me. There was nothing spectacular with the games. No awesome shots or devastating defenses. Only one thing out of the ordinary.

I was matched up against another SL6 (so race to 5). I won the lag and the first game started out with a few standard shots in the first inning. Second inning I played a defense after a couple of shots. He got out with a kick, made another shot after that but the cue ball traveled over to the 8 sitting near the side and bumped it in. First game goes to me on account of his early 8. Yay.

Second game, I broke and made nothing. Three/four innings later he decided to go for a very thin cut on a ball into a side pocket with the 8 near it on the rail. The whole time I'm thinking this is not a smart move and looked at my captain who had this face of "what is this guy doing?" Well, he makes the cut, hits the 8 square on the side and it travels down to the corner. Game two, me again.

Third game, I was able to get down to the 8 after a couple of innings but had to bank...and missed. Blah. He runs his last four and gets to the 8 and rattles! Great! A lot of green but still standard...and I rattle. Long shot for him...he rattles, lol! Another long one for me and I rattle again! He finally gets the 8 in for his first win.

Fourth game, 8 ball break. I really wish they would make it illegal to hit anything but the first ball in 8 ball. Hitting the second ball takes no real skill but ups the chances of sinking the 8 on the break. Lame.

Fifth/sixth games. Nothing significant. I win a small defense battle in the sixth after taking the fifth. Up 4-2.

Seventh game. He practically d's himself with two balls on the table to my three. He can graze one of his solids that's sitting next to one of mine but after contacting his object ball the cue ball comes off the rail and right into the 8 ball that was sitting a little out of the corner pocket on the other side. After his first two games I couldn't believe he didn't second guess his judgment on this one! Win 5-2.

TLDR: So, to wrap it up as to why this was interesting you'll notice that my opponent made five 8 balls in a seven game match but still lost 5-2. At the upper skill levels it's rare to accidentally pocket an 8 early. Pretty much unheard of to do so three times in one match! But I'll still take the win!

always nice when an opponent just hands you the match.

remember dont try to run balls near the end and not be able to get out. leaving yourself a tough shot on the 8 usually means you lose the game. as its then too easy for him to never leave you a shot if he cant get out.

I didn't play last week, went to a concert.

This week, I'm still SL 5, I'm playing a SL 4 (average player).

I win lag. Hit the break poorly, was aiming at 2nd ball, but caught a piece of the head ball, nothing falls, rack is a mess.

My average opponent steps up, and runs 7 balls! I'm spotting THIS guy? WTF? But as RZ points out above, he didn't leave himself a shot on the 8, had to kick at it. I play a couple safes, making him kick every time until he finally fouls.

I got BIH, all my balls wide open, all his balls out of my way--this what I practice, every single practice session! Well, let's see if I can pull this off under fire...YES! 1-0, good guys!

2nd game, very similar: another bad break; he runs most of his balls, misses; I have a wide-open runout, but not BIH this time; I run a few, but see early on that I'm never going get on the right side of the 6th ball, so I play a good safe. He can run balls, but he can't kick, fouls again. I BIH and run out.

I'm up 2-0. I haven't missed a shot yet (if you don't count a safety as a miss).

3rd game, he again makes his 7th ball and leaves himself a kick-shot on the 8. He makes the hit, but the cue ball caroms around out of control and he scratches, which is a loss in APA.

Fourth game, I finally make a ball on the break. he has three clusters, it's hopeless for him, I record the 4-0 shutout.

I think that 0-3 comeback I had in our playoff game gave me a confidence I've never had before. This guy says he's always been a 5, just got moved down to a 4 this week--and I simply buried him.

After this one, they moved me up to a SL 6.

good for you. bad they moved you up the party is over.

Not bad. My goal is to be a 7, win an MVP, and move up from the Open level.

This was a big step on that journey. Take another look at the thread title, lol.

The tough shot I left myself was due to hitting too softly to get shape. The rails on that table are a little dead and I didn't account for this enough on my previous shot. Normally I don't try to run out if the chances are extremely slim (ie, no way to break out a problem ball easily) and I resort to playing defense until I'm comfortable with the table layout.

Grats on the shutout! Welcome to the 6 club! It looks like your opponent was an excellent shot maker but a very poor planner. There's loads of those types in APA...people who just won't think a table through before going up and firing away. I'm actually the opposite. I'm an alright shot maker but I play fierce defenses and usually have excellent speed control to give myself easier shots. It's what allows me to win most of my matches each session on a consistent basis, even against 6s and 7s.

Not to rain on your parade but you should realize that the top SL7s in APA are extremely good shooters! They can run racks on a regular basis. If you have a ROKU device download the Billiards Channel and look for APA singles championships. You need to be well practiced to compete against them.

I'm surprised to hear that, but thanks. Never heard of the Billiards channel, I'm eager to look into it!

I'm incredibly confident that I can get to that level that you describe. I don't mean World Class level, but to the point where running racks isn't that surprising. I feel like I'm very aware of what my weaknesses are, and I think that time and effort should really smooth out most of them.

An example of this would be "pocketing balls from near the center of the table, into the corner pocket". I'm not very good at that. I haven't spent much time working on it, because I first needed to spend the practice time making balls from a foot away, then balls from two feet away, etc.

Bank shots are another area I've spent almost no time practicing. I've just felt that it was an advanced technique, and my practice time was better spent on more fundamental shotmaking.

I'm not terrible at kicking, but I could get a lot better.

I don't see many folks in these leagues improving, and I think it's because they don't WANT to improve! Every time they miss a shot they feel they should've made, they spend zero seconds facing their shortcomings and considering what they did wrong. They always say, "I can't believe (this or that happened)!!!", and they never say, "Wow, I hit that bad!" They get out of shape on a shot, and act like it's the cue ball's fault! "Where are you GOING?", they howl at the rock.

They all think they're great pool players, that's why they bought a stick and come out each week.

I'm the only one there who wants to get better, who wants to focus on his weaknesses instead of his strengths.

And it doesn't look that hard, that mysterious. I'm reading, I'm learning. I don't see the sharpies in Dr Dave's videos doing anything that I think I'll never be able to do.

everyone that ive seen that thinks like you get good quickly.

then you stop at the point where your tip doesnt hit exactly where you wanted it to.

Thanks Ray!

And when I hit that plateau, I'll know where to look for the solution.

I've always been the type to want to improve as much as I can which is why my play is pretty consistent week to week. But, a few years ago I hit pretty much a wall in how much I'm going to improve. Since I only get to shoot on Wednesdays (league night so not much practice) and Fridays (not too serious) my skill hasn't really gone up. It's hard to improve without having time to get real practice sessions in (doing drills or entering side tournaments) and with a busy family I'm lucky to get in what I can.

BTW, banks aren't something that require as much practice (IMO) as people think. If you understand the basics of using the diamonds and can divide by two most banks are relatively routine shots. I feel them to be one of my better "difficult" shots to take.

Oh, I can use the diamonds to bank NEAR the pockets--but what good does that do me?

Folks seem so impressed by bank shots that just miss. Those don't impress me at all.

When I see folks at this level attempting long or wide bank shots, I'm halfway out of my chair, I know there's little chance it's going in.

Having said all that: I know that there's little chance that MINE are going in, either. I feel good about bank shots that have almost no angle to them (ie, I hit the rail an inch from the side pocket to send it cross-side, using a near-full-ball hit). But stretch that angle even a little, my chances drop considerably. Put the ball on the spot, give me BIH, ask me to bank it somewhere? I'm a dog to make that on my first try, because I haven't been practicing that at all, zero.

That's not to say I'm never going to learn it. My point is, I know what i don't know.

Ray's advice last week of "don't worry so much about perfect position, the table is so small, there are no long shots" really helped my game last week. My practice time for the foreseeable future (like you, I've got a life that doesn't allow me to loaf around a poolroom all day) will be spent on making balls that are 4-6 diamonds away from the pocket.

But I'll get to those banks soon enough. Hell, maybe, some day, I'll learn how to get the cue ball airborne.

Interesting thing I saw, been meaning to post about it:

Last week, my captain took a timeout, summoned me. He had BIH and three stripes on the table, but it was TOUGH. One stripe clustered on the 8, another stripe on the other side of the table near the side pocket that didn't really go anywhere, and one ball in the clear, near that first cluster.

He pitched his idea for his first shot. I countered, "What are you going to about (these other problems)?", and he gave his standard "Cross that bridge when we come to it," line.

This is the second time in a row he has profess a willingness to ignore problems during a timeout. Again, I tried to explain that's a bad thing, but you can't teach anyone anything during a game, you need to get their attention at practice.

So I did a search for 8-ball pattern play, looking for a link I could send him...and found a few links I hadn't seen before...and they introduced some ideas that were new to me, and I'd like to get some feedback on them.

The first idea was, "On a bar box, forget the side pockets are there, just shoot at the corners." The thinking is the side pockets are just too tight, and the corners aren't that far away. This was a strat I never heard of.

The other idea was, when planning long 8-ball runouts, start by cleaning up your balls in the center of the table. This opens up traffic lanes to move around.

Thoughts?

Terrible advice. The side pockets are not too tight and should be used appropriately. The only thing I'd say about it is when you have a makeable cut in the side that is equally as makeable in the corner and shape is not an issue then you should shoot it in the corner 100% of the time.

100% agree with this most of the time. Not always, but in general. Same goes with starting with your balls on one end of the table and not going to the other end until you made them all. It's much harder to go from one end to the other than it is to stay in one end. Less traffic to maneuver through. Start on the end opposite where the 8 ball is usually is good advice as well, but generally I will start on the end where the most trouble or tied up balls are.