I think the shows greatest flaw is not so much that it is bad in an "artistic/academic" sense ( it is ). But that is has long stretches of boring stuff there they not have any action or dialog that moves the story forward in any way ( especially season 2 ).

TV for me and most people is a chance to shut off the brain and be entertained, so even a reality show can be OK. A badly scripted show is hard to justify in any sense. But if you have fantastic young dancers like on "So you think you can dance" it is entertainment in a more emotional sense.

But since TV is almost always about viewers would anyone dare to make any big changes if they got a chance to produce/write it from season 4 and forward?

1% of the population have an IQ below 65.10
2% of the population have an IQ below 69.19
5% of the population have an IQ below 75.33
10% of the population have an IQ below 80.78
20% of the population have an IQ below 87.38
50% of the population have an IQ below 100.00
80% of the population have an IQ below 112.62
90% of the population have an IQ below 119.22
95% of the population have an IQ below 124.67
98% of the population have an IQ below 130.81 (The Mensa entrance limit).
99% of the population have an IQ below 134.90.

You are prolly one of the people that think GOT is too much talk too!(@Depokergod)

(This got kinda tl;dr, but meh, gonna post it all anyway since I took the time to write it)

This is exactly what you get when you try to do things 'artistically', but get it wrong. You get a bunch of meaningless, emotionless scenes of characters doing relatively inconsequential things very slowly, or you get endless montages of characters standing around while sombre music plays (like the one where they were all in the prison and Beth was singing). There's no meaning attached to it because you haven't spent time asking people to invest in the characters emotionally, so it's not a moment for viewers to reflect or think about what's going on in the story, it's just a moment that reminds them that they're watching a TV show which isn't giving them what they want.

A show like Mad Men, for example, can do musical montages and scenes of characters doing menial office tasks, sitting in bars drinking, or whatever, because they expend time and energy exploring a character's mental state before they do so, inviting the viewer to engage with them - or, conversely, they have a great sense for how their characters interact, which makes the dialogue scenes compelling and revealing. This combination of insight, sympathy and continual discovery is what makes shows like Mad Men great, and shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones have proven that this kind of approach to TV can, with quality writing, be intertwined with the kind of exciting, fast-moving, action-based storytelling that tends to appeal to mass audiences. Being successful on both fronts - gaining mass appeal while also maintaining artistic integrity - is something that's necessary in order to keep a TV show running for more than a couple of seasons.

An example of a show that didn't make enough concessions to viewers in order to justify a long-term stay on our screens would be something like Deadwood - artistically amazing, but a little dense for some viewers. TWD is moving ever further towards the other end of the scale - everyone watches it and it's gonna last for about eight to ten seasons, but they're making too many concessions to the masses and are in danger of not being taken seriously in future.

It's a balance every entertainer since Shakespeare has been trying to strike - how do you create something that will appeal to both the cultural mainstream, and the people who pride themselves on staying away from the cultural mainstream? TV has, in recent years, begun creating a sort of 'intellectual mainstream', of people who voraciously consume anything that they've heard has great artistic value, so that they can enjoy discussing it with other members of that community. This in turn makes it even more difficult for TV shows that exist for pure enjoyment factor - reality TV shows, crappy sitcoms, etc etc - to be taken seriously. I feel like there should be a separate name for the sub-genre of shows that feel more like reading chapters of a book than watching episodes of a show. It really is a different form of storytelling.

Nsync is the most talented group ever. Did you see how many records they sold??

LOL at TWD being "good" in any sense but in a technically professional way: cinematography, editing, SFX, etc.

It's for people who think "Twilight" is deep. I'll certainly give it props for being watchable, but that's mostly because any apocalyptic situation with zombies is going to be watchable in some sense.

The writers have not created one interesting character. Not one. I was sort of interested in Shane's situation (in love with his buddy's wife) - as it was the one relatable situation of any of the main characters. But they even effed that up.

The minor characters (T-Dog, Carol, blonde sister of Maggie) have had absolutely NOTHING to do. Nothing. They are just sorta...there.

Non premium cable TV dramas that are better than The Walking Dead:

Justified
Breaking Bad
Sherlock
Doctor Who
Mad Men
Southland
Burn Notice
The Americans
Spartacus
Criminal Minds
The Mentalist
Bones
Castle
The Good Wife
Elementary
Sons of Anarchy
Downton Abbey
Fringe

damn...guess I should just listed shows that were worse than TWD...would've been a lot shorter.

your leading argument is that "hey 7 million other ppl like it"? lol

Actually after 5 seconds of thought I realized that's EXACTLY the argument TWD lovers would be able to come up with

fyp

LOL at using popularity as a measurement of quality. The only time I would use popularity in an argument is if it was an argument about who will win an election.

People are generally ******ed.

Well written post, theginger45.

Only thing that I wanted to point out was that people have very little time and mental energy left after having to work and commute for maybe over 10 hours a day; spend time with family and friends; try to exercise and maybe have a little sex on top of that.

If you don't watch every episode of Mad Men you miss so much of the undertone and subtext to get the details you pointed out in your example. Based only on the basic story and plot it could almost play out like a soap opera with less talented writers. The acting is also superb and the setting looks beautiful.

I think Deadwood was just too dark and grim for mass appeal.

And even if writers and producers in a perfect world should care about quality and intellectual integrity - if they get 10 seasons out of TWD almost everyone in the business would take the money and forget about what others think.

Thanks man, glad someone read it haha.

And therein you have the two biggest factors - one intrinsic and one extrinsic - as to why mass-produced entertainment will always exist. There will always be people who spend the daytime exhausting themselves and use TV and movies as an opportunity to relax, and people will always make career decisions and business decisions based on money. It's hard for a group of writers to collectively eschew the lure of engineering a massively popular show, because they'd effectively be throwing away millions of dollars.

It really takes a perfect storm of ingredients to generate a top-class TV show - you need writers who are motivated enough to put their all into the material, but also experienced enough to know what works and what doesn't. Same goes for cast and crew. You need a concept that hooks people in and a style that keeps them watching. Above all, once you've got these things, you need to keep them all together for more than a season or two - I can't even count the number of shows which have been near-perfect for short periods only for something to disrupt the whole flow of the show. An interesting example of this is Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje's departure from LOST midway through season three - that actually forced the show to change the entirety of what they had planned for the show's endgame. The original plan was:

interesting stuff never new that about lost.

It's a wonder the producers just don't read the fan boys on the message boards. Everyone there is an expert on how to make good television.

im grunching.

I really feel the writers think we are stupid. I am not saying the viewers (we) are stupid. but they are playing like it.


Finale was completely terrible. it will prolly be hard on the new writer to come back from this. them dragging out the governor for another season is absolutely trash. especially if he meets up with another group and its yet again another cluster**** as we've seen. and the whole saving the people of woodbury is a joke. Usually after a finale, I cant wait for the next season. well I can wait. season 4 is going to really tilt a lot of people.

edir* an example of making us out to be idiots. who in their right mind would just sit idly by when the Governor hosed down those people. I mean. I know its a tv show and all, but holy **** you have got to be ****ing kidding me




at least carl continues to be the most badass character on teh show..A 12 yr old being ht most badass.. wow

thing that upsets me the most is that the goverener and his aidsy bull**** will prolly DRAG for at least half the season.








the rest of the town that was filled with children and the elderly all wrapped up in a prison that couldnt fit 10 people most of s3

Warm milk?

Im certain that the writers are a front and the show is ran by a bunch of instagram emo kids filming it on iphone with ****ty annoying filters

I'm completely ready for it to last half a season. I'm predicting we have some boring prison "introduce useless characters" episodes while completely ignoring the Governor. Then we'll randomly get an entire episode devoted to him. Then a few more episodes setting up a conflict and then maybe a gun fight if we're lucky.

Now what do we do Sunday night?

are you ****ing kidding me? Mad Men, Game of Thrones...

allow this thread to die and let the show become a painful memory....

but im having so much fun lurking since i stopped watching

Watch the good shows.

Just finished watching the finale.

What the hell was that!?

So next season starts with a prison full of starving women and children (they had trouble finding enough food for ten, never mind 50 people), the Governor is still out there but with only two guys who now know he's crazy and the whole scenario hasn't moved ten feet from where it started at the beginning of the season? Plus is Woodbury now empty? Why would the people choose to live in a prison when they could at least be comfortable in the town and probably defend it?

Holy crap. I think that's the first time I've watched a finale and not cared at all about what the next episode is.

Im I just wrong or did the invasion of the prison in the finale yield no dead people at all? Seemed like the first kill was when the Governor went ham on his own people. If so.... this show is LOL******ed.

Cant believe they left the Gov alive. Is that how it happened in the comics?

If you watched the season, you'd notice Woodbury is the easiest place to get into undetected.