And that isn't wild speculation out of thin air?

All of this stuff is speculation, we have the evidence that she has some tie-in to it, but no evidence of what that tie in is. Unless you have some I'm missing?

You're saying that she somehow randomly stumbled into the cult's "Carcosa," island at the age of, what, 7? Then somehow stumbled onto the ritual ceremony, but managed to not be seen, while watching, then got away unseen and didn't tell anyone? And that's not wild speculation out of thin air? Or that she was kidnapped, perhaps drugged, taken there, perhaps abused, forced to watch and released unscathed - and her parents never noticed her missing for a period of at least a full night?

Are they possible theories? Yes, but IMO way more unlikely than the others... And certainly no less wild speculation out of thin air.

Could be reverse blackmail, but it seems very foolish for Tuttle to have had child pornography photos and videotape inside a personal safe in his house (for personal use), except for blackmail purposes. There might have been a weak person who wants to stop everything, and Tuttle was reminding that person that it wouldn't be a good idea for them to speak out, because of said evidence (he could probably easily make it not stick to himself, due to the power of the family). So, Tuttle probably allowed the schools to be closed to keep that person in line, but that's as far as he was willing to go. If any other steps were taken to out anything, he'd just anonymously leak the stuff. Still, this is all wild speculation on my part.

I don't think anyone is going to be upset if the blouse doesn't have a payoff. I think a lot of people will (rightfully) be upset if the Audrey storyline doesn't have a payoff.

The weirdest thing about all this hyperobsessive overanalysis television show thing IIRC started with Lost, where it was IMMEDIATELY shown to be baseless since they were making it up as they went along and nothing had a payoff. So like, the first experience that audiences had with caring way too much and analyzing DVRed screenshots and **** should've taught people that the return on that time investment is just disappointment.

But some some reason after that enormous letdown the internet got like, battered wife syndrome or something, and decided that the problem with Lost MUST have been that they didn't analyze it CLOSE ENOUGH. We need even more theories! More predictions! More screeeeeeencaps to divine the foreshadowing that simply must be there.

If that was the case Tuttle would've thought that the blackmail victim character was the burglar, though. I guess we could assume that there was an entire off screen drama of them tracking down that guy, deciding he didn't steal them, wondering who did, etc... but that seems like a lot of legwork by the audience, especially since we don't know who "they" are yet or who the blackmail guy is.

That plotline doesn't connect as well as Tuttle just being a big ole' pervert who liked to keep souvenirs, and after Cohle stole them he either killed himself or was murdered by his co-conspirators because he was afraid his secret was out.


Edit: Wait actually I thought about it some more and you're definitely wrong. If those videos and **** were for blackmail, Cohle and Rust would be able to see the blackmailee's face, right? He'd be a new suspect for them. But as far as we know, the videos are just off the victims and betray no information about the perpetrators. How would that work as blackmail? Unless somebody was blackmailing Tuttle by planting them in the safe, but man now we're deep down the rabbit hole.

My only speculation about Audrey has been (and I was vilified for this early on in the thread) that she witnessed the scene that the dolls portrayed (or had that happen to her, which I don't think happened, but it's certainly possible it did, based on her outlandish sexual behavior). I find it hard to believe she saw it on a videotape, sorry. If you are connecting dots, I think we know that Lange's body was discovered fairly near where they live (can't remember for sure, so I could be wrong about that). It's certainly not a stretch to think she witnessed that murder (if it was near them), but it would be awfully convenient to tie a major character point like that into Hart's case.

The far fetched theories about her family again could tie in to how it would be possible that she saw a different enacting of this. I just really don't want it to be that, because it is very out of left field. This story isn't told out of left field, at all. Everything we've seen so far all makes sense.

I have no problems with this assessment, but it sure makes Tuttle seem like a complete idiot to keep that stuff in his house. I do think that the masks are probably identifiers in themselves, and that there still is potentially a way to unmask identities that way.

You guys aren't going to like this, but the Audrey scene works as an example of how Marty's ****ed up job is hurting his family, that he's somehow bringing the case home. There could be more to it. I think Marty's family plotline needs closure of some sort, and tying it into the case more directly would certainly qualify, e.g. through the father-in-law stuff.

But it's not a "red herring" or anything if that's all it is.

Nope. The exact same painting as the hospital doesn't fly for that explanation.

At that stage of the story, he talked a lot about how he kept work and home separate (in lol ways). So, I can't get on board the theory that it's related to his job. It was too big of a deal to be innocuous, or coincidental. Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't a red herring. It's possible it was intended as a subliminal message (like the beer can men), but if that's the case, it was really poorly executed by the director.

That's all fine, but how did she see it in a way that wasn't outlandish or highly unlikely?

Dora Lange's body was found in Erath, which is way out in the middle of nowhere. I don't think we're ever told where Marty lives, but I think Baton Rouge is pretty likely - it's where state CID would be headquartered. Also, they mentioned at one point going "down" to Spanish Lake, which is near Erath.

Finally, the murder didn't occur by the tree in Erath, and we still don't know where - but we suspect in the place the cult calls Carcosa. I'm guessing it's going to be in the middle of nowhere. (They aren't holding satanic sacrifices a few hundred yards away from a neighborhood.)

If your theory is that she got kidnapped and witnessed it, that's fine. If it's that she was out for a midnight hike in backwoods Louisiana as a 6-8 year old kid and stumbled onto a satanic cult sacrifice ritual and lived to (not) tell about it.... Then to each his own, but at least don't tell me my possible theories are wild speculation out of thin air.

As for the family being connected, or not, there are plenty of ways to stumble onto a tape or picture that don't involve the grandfather - friends house, find it in the street, gossip from school from a kid who transferred from another school in an area where someone disappeared...

I'm sure we could come up with hundreds of theories... I'm going to pass on "stumbled onto it near her house," though.

Yeah either the showrunner was trolling the reddit crowd with the Barbie's first gang rape and everything else or it's a lose end and detracts from the show.

Plus the doll scene... Plus the tiara scene... Plus the black star painting from this week. That's four different clues. I'm sure we missed some, too.

Exactly. Like someone else said on this matter: If all they wanted to do was show WH as an inattentive father, there are many different ways they could have done it. To drop all these very specific signals (I mean, come on, the doll scene, the swirl, the dirty drawings w/ dude in mask) and have it be nothing would be a crock of shizz.

Have absolutely loved the show. Audrey's stuff meaning nothing (other than WH negligence) wouldn't ruin it for me, but I would be disappointed.

Nic P. is quoted as saying he's not trying to trick us. Well, OK, then. But if this Audrey stuff isn't at least loosely tied to the sickos, then THAT IS TRICKING US. It's too specific.

Yeah, at this point, the options are: A) it ties in B) NP screwed up. Given how good of a job he has done so far, I'm leaning heavily to A.

Along those lines, what are the current storylines that we NEED to have wrapped up? Not ones that we'd kind of like to find out about (like Rust's daughter, did Ginger survive in the ditch, how did Tuttle really die?)... The ones that are absolutely necessary to wrap up the show. I've got:

1. Who is in the cult? Who/what is the Yellow King? What happens to them?

2. What's with the Audrey storyline?

3. What's with that industrial factory place in the background of so many shots?

4. What becomes of Rust and Marty?

I think that's about it. Wrap up the case, find out if they're brought to some swift Louisiana justice, tie up a couple of the motifs/storylines and tell us what became of our flawed protagonists... What am I missing?

I think the mistake you're making here is that I didn't say you can't speculate what you're saying. I'm saying that BASED ON THE STORY we've seen so far, that I think those are wild speculations. BASED ON THE STORY, what I'm saying, even if I don't like it, would make sense. The foreshadowing has been absolutely textbook (if anything, the only flaw with the writing, in my opinion, is it's a little too textbook, as in I'd like the foreshadowing to be a little more subtle, but I'd take this over left field idiotic twists any day of the week). So, I'm only saying to think of the story, and how it's been told, and then try to find theories that fit in with that (we're officially far enough along that this is your last chance for that). He's not playing with the normal audience. If he's playing with anyone, he's playing with nitpickers.

This episode really made Marty look good with all his detective work.

The baby in the microwave seemed like a lame excuse to leave the police force, not sure I buy it.

They have a lot to bring together in the final hour, I doubt they do it all justice - like we get an explanation of Carcosa, and why didn't they get into that esp since Cohle had it written in his storage place?

Agree to disagree then. I don't think it's any less likely or fits much less with the story that she stumbled onto a video at her grandfather's, or at a friend's house. I think her being an actual victim or being taken to a ceremony by someone is possible. Her stumbling onto it to me is just ludicrous.

Like, the place the killing is going down is going to be even more isolated than Ledoux's compound. You think a 6-8 year old kid would stumble into Ledoux's compound? Like, "Hey Mom and Dad, I'm just taking a hike by myself at night into a swamp. Be home by 4 am. Cool? Drop me by Erath?"

Now, someone takes her there? Maybe. A friend's Dad or her grandfather drugs her and takes her there? I could see that.

I dont think Cohle knows what Carcosa is, just like he doesn't know who the guy with scars is when he writes it in his storage place. He just knows it's something he's chasing.

Seeing a microwaved baby would be enough to make anyone quit the force IMO. I don't even want to imagine it - but stuff cooks from the inside out in there, and some things explode if you leave them in too long (like marshmallows, for example). I'll leave it at that.

I don't think there's all that much really. Originally I did, then I thought about it and couldn't come up with much. Presumably their next lead will allow them to figure out where the cult is, they'll have a little run-in with the detectives who grilled them, some sort of shootout/confrontation that unmasks the killers/cultists, wrap up the Audrey storyline, tie-in the factory, tie up a couple random loose ends, see what becomes of Rust and Marty.

Guys.. This show isn't about big reveals as much as it is about a sublime narrative focusing on its characters and themes.

Audrey having been molested by the cult or otherwise traumatized by it plays into many of the themes the show has introduced. Further, it adds subtlety to leave it unanswered-- it's not a loose end if we simply want to know... it's a loose end if it forces a plot hole or doesn't fulfill a characters development. Neither of these would be true.

This could be a big reveal, but first, it wouldn't be that big of a reveal, and second it's pretty late in the game for that and there doesn't seem to be a reason why it wouldn't have just been her in the video as it allows for better pacing.

I think everyone has really been scarred by Lost and in turn is super cynical and overly sensitive to plot holes, loose ends, and the like.

Rawls being in that bar was never revisited, and it certainly raised all sorts of questions, but that doesn't make it a plot hole. It actually made the narrative richer by not being addressed. It wasn't some big reveal to push the plot, but instead was used to reinforce the themes of the show.

I think the scars are pretty noticeable, but it's not as hideous as to be called a spaghetti monster imo.

I would argue that it doesn't fulfill the development of the character. If the clues were limited to say acting out, positioning dolls sexually in general and some sexual drawings, I'd agree it could go unfulfilled. It would develop Marty's character as father who wasn't attentive enough. However, we have very specific tie-ins to the cult:

1. Five male dolls around a naked female doll. (and the conversation she was having, according to those who transcribed it could fit)

2. The drawings, including one that looks like a masked man - somewhat similar to a mask in a photo Rust shows Marty in episode 7.

3. The painting hanging in their house that matches the hospital.

4. The tiara being thrown into the tree connects in numerous ways.

5. The black stars in the small painting we see in episode 7.

If you took out 1 and 3, the rest could be passed off as motifs and themes that don't directly tie into the plot. One and three do, though, which gives more significance to the others. I think that has to be wrapped up, or it should have never been in there. If it's not wrapped up, it would have been better to write the show with her just acting out partying/drinking, acting out in school and having the sex with the two guys. That would develop Marty's character just as well.

That was probably a mask of some sort.

I'm not saying seeing the baby wouldn't be horrific, but humans are pretty resilient and can recover, especially for a 45 year old cop. He has to have seen some gruesome stuff before that.

Add Carcosa to your list and they have a job to do next week.

They showed the scene of him seeing the baby in the microwave though. Pretty sure it's been established that "what people say" is potentially unreliable, but "what is shown" we can take at face value.

Let's not forget that the passage of time would render the scars less hideous. What I'm wondering is that I believe the "worst one" was described as "a giant"--I can't really tell if lawnmower guy is super tall (although to a child, he is at least big).