MM is such a good detective, he would already know if Woody was the killer. Or at least have some strong suspicions, which he doesn't.

WH spotted the church, he's is also the only thing keeping MM on the case

this

died laughing when i realized the governor's cousin (or whoever he is, the dude w/glasses in the pic above) is RANCH WILDER from angels in the outfield

I thought lbr was joking, as was I when I said the Pastor who came into the police station was the leader of the gang rape.

The guy who always plays bad guys now (with the glasses) is the one I was referring to, goofyballer. I thought he was a Pastor, did I misremember that?

No episode on Super Bowl weekend. BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

No, you're right, I was adding on to that w/ the other details. I think they called him Reverend.

I like this show a lot. All the dialogue just seems very good - no throw away lines.

Very funny when Cole said "I don't sleep, I just dream." after Heart told him to stop saying crazy ****.

I really can't wait to see if he is the Pastor of that church on the flyer though. Woody already knows who's Pastor of that church, I guarantee it. With the political **** storm this case is creating, some of the power players we've seen will have blind eyes or active parts in whatever ultimately happened wrong in 1995. Woody is not keen on opening up the can of worms related to whoever that Pastor is, but probably knows he won't ultimately have much choice. As others have noted, he's doing his best to try to keep MM a step behind on the case, and it's not working. Why he's doing that is the bigger question, which I'm thinking will be answered in the 4th episode, or around there (I doubt it will happen in the next one).

If it does turn out that Woody is the killer (as long as it's paid off properly), it doesn't mean it's bad writing, it just means most people on this board are too good at TV/story (the cynical viewer who doesn't trust any writers to play straight). One important thing I read or heard (maybe here) was that they aren't interested in the serial killer when telling the story. I don't think it really matters (similar to how I felt about The Bridge). This is just A+ television character study with some really outstanding actors showing how it's done.

What he said about dreaming isn't crazy. I've had some crazy shifts where I worked 24+ hours, and had a 4 hour turnaround. You're so worried about oversleeping, you just active dream, like you feel like you didn't sleep at all. Or if you have too much visual stimulation, you dream in that stimulation. It's clear that MM takes in his entire world (and the horrific scenes he's witnessed), and the only way he would be able to sleep normally would be to take drugs. So, he just rolls with the bad dreams I guess.

Still great lines, great deliveries.

I will be disappointed if it turns out that either of them is the killer or anything like that. This show has done nothing to indicate it is to be viewed as a conventional detective show with some twist to it. What will probably happen is they narrow in on some suspects, they put some one away who may have been an accomplice but not the actual killer, or maybe the department and woody are pressured to make a political arrest and frame somebody & MM is not on board with the decision and that's why MM washes out and the actual killer gets away.

Your second scenario is how it would play out in a conventional cop show. So far, there have been several potential red herrings, and foreshadowings that should at least make you second guess that the writers are playing this straight (even if they are playing it straight). People who watch a lot of procedurals know by now that the finger is subtly pointing at our two detectives from a suspect standpoint. If that's an accident, it just means the writer and director haven't seen enough procedurals to know that they're stepping into that. Chances are it's not an accident, and it's an intentional red herring to make you begin to wonder (based on the character development) whether one or both has it in them to be a killer. MM definitely does. After Sunday's episode, I'm convinced that WH is very effed up just by the kind of sex that turns him on while working in a unit that would likely cover all of the sex crimes and murders where he lives. After that episode, I'm convinced that WH definitely is also capable of being a killer, but that doesn't mean either of them are.

Again, it's using what we see in their characters as potential red herrings, because of how many shows in the past 8 years have been trying to fake us out. The audience is poisoned by those shows. Now it's hard to figure out whether we're being played with or whether it's intentional. Personally, I'd be really surprised if either of them is the killer, but I think it's definitely in play that both could be.

I think anything is in play here, because this really is about these two characters and how a broken character really went off the rails, and another character got broken but doesn't look like he is in present day. It could be how one screwed the pooch in a major way, and how the other one can't deal with the fallout. It could be something completely different. There's a ton of time left, and watching this show unfold will likely not be disappointing, based on how it's started.

What, because of the handcuffs? Did I miss something else?

Also remember that he was genuinely upset at the underage prostitute when he went off on the woman at the bunny ranch. I disagree with your characterization of Woody so far.

I'd have to rewatch, but I'm pretty sure one of the local cops on the scene says something along the lines of "this field wasn't scheduled to be burned." But maybe I am remembering a negative that wasn't there and he was saying that that a scheduled burn is how they stumbled upon the body?

Yes, because of the handcuffs. A cop who works any kind of sex crimes wanting to be put in a situation where rape can happen (remember, he wanted to use them on her, but they ended up on him) has major issues if that's the kind of sex they're into (either they were effed up beforehand and getting off on getting to see that stuff, or the stuff they've seen crossed their sexual wires so much that that's what they want their sex to have). If it's not a cop who works horrific crimes, it's not a big character deal. If it's a cop who sees the horror of kinky sex gone wrong or rape/murders, it's an issue.

I think you're missing that his being upset about the underage prostitute is a character thing too. He's a total effing hypocrite. They're showing you all kinds of signs that his character is effed up, and a major hypocrite. He's intended to be portrayed as someone who's hiding a lot of stuff to the public. No matter what you think of his portrayal so far, there's no way he's a "good guy", and there have been plenty of clues to make us understand that he's not to be taken as a "good guy". I think he's a scumbag. He doesn't have a proper moral compass, yet thinks he's doing just fine.

Handcuffs are like the tamest sex toy ever. I think you're way overthinking that whole thing, and also extrapolating "he's a hypocrite who think he's a good dude" wayyyyyyy too far to arrive at "...so he could definitely be a serial killer who thinks that he kills people for justifiable reasons", aka Dexter 2.0.

lol

Oh yeah, I forgot you can't make any sex speculations with people from 2+2. Most people on here don't really know what a typical perceived normal is. Handcuffs fall under kink, plain and simple. I'm sure there are lots of degrees of kinky, but it's in there. I guarantee you I'm not over thinking it, but we can both feel free to watch it play out and make fun of whoever is wrong (though I would never make fun of you for that). Again, I don't even understand why you think I'm making the leap that he's the killer. I'm telling you he has major character issues, and he probably doesn't think he does. That's why being with MM puts him on an unreal level of discomfort.

I also never used the phrase that he thinks he's a good dude. I doubt he thinks that. I think he doesn't think he's effed up, despite clearly being effed up. Having a chick on the side is not normal behavior in a marriage (despite many from 2+2 praying it is), and he says he's doing that because he's trying to shelter his family from the bad parts of his job as a decompression. LOL at that logic. That's a guy with major intimacy issues.

I tend to think where this is going - based on absolutely nothing really, lol - is that someone MM/WH know is not the killer will be arrested so they can put a lid on it. And, the real killer/s is someone rather powerful. Again this is based on nothing at all but that's my best guess where this is going. Or... not.

****ing LOLOLOL

anyone have any idea whats going on with the kids in the woods? MM asked them if they wanted to hear about the "glorious moment when they pulled all the kids outta the woods" or something along those lines. Is that green eared spaghetti monster snatchin kids up and forcing them to watch ppl gang bang?

That nunnehi post is fairly amazing

Sure, but being slightly kinky doesn't make you a ****ed up person or something. I'd give you that it's outside of a typical normal, but why is that bad? The "typical perceived normal" for sex in society is to repress, like, all your desires to a really unhealthy level. Like someone said earlier with the "put the girls on a range, not a specific hand" comment - okay, maybe he's a sexual deviant, or maybe he just enjoys having fun in the bedroom like millions of non-murderer Americans do.

I wouldn't either. I always appreciate that you back up your arguments with logic and examples, even if I disagree.

You acknowledged the possibility: "After that episode, I'm convinced that WH definitely is also capable of being a killer, but that doesn't mean either of them are." I don't think we've seen character traits that make him capable of being a killer at all.

How did this thread become terrible after only two episodes?

Also, thought this ep was more on the boring side and in a different mood I would have hated it.