Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath
It was muffled conversation behind the girls' door as Hart was coming to get them for dinner. Something like:
"You don't have a mummy and daddy anymore. They died."
"How?"
"In a car accident"
Sounded like the older girl explaining the circumstances of the scene to the younger one. Younger one is playing the victim. Typical older/younger sibling power dynamic.
It certainly looks like a gang rape. But maybe that is for our benefit - and Hart's, and the girls were enacting something different (like a marginally less sinister crime scene?) that looks like a gang rape to grown ups.
The girls' dialog could be an implication of what happens to girls who don't have parents to look after them - which ties back into other plot aspects, including the immediately following dialog where one of the girls asks Marty if he's coming to dinner too, he says yes, and the little one says "Good!" This coming off Marty being upset by the apparently underage girl at the bunny ranch who had no family. Also perhaps it ties into the precise circumstances of Rust's daughter's death - that's being revealed to us slowly - or foreshadowing the breakup of Marty's family.
For a 6- or 7-year-old to set up that scene, she must have witnessed something similar. Seems more likely to me that it was second-hand from Daddy's police work than something they saw first hand. Other (and more plausible) source is TV/movies. (Or does Marty have magazines as well as a girlfriend?) In '95 the girls were not getting it from the internet.
I like a lot of this, but you're ascribing too much to such young children. If they knew what they were depicting was wrong, they would have taken the scene down when he knocked on the door. It's clearly something one (or both as they seem very close) witnessed in some form or fashion, and it's something they can't process. I remember being about 7 years old and freaking my mom out as I was walking around our apartment complex and I saw the f word written as graffiti on various walls. I came home and asked, "Mom, what does f*** mean?" That was good stuff, seeing how she freaked out. That depiction is very similar to what I just described, in my opinion. They saw it and can't put a meaning to it, so they just show it. For all we know, they could have re-iterated some of what the gang rapists were saying during the act. We just don't know yet, and I'd be shocked if it's not paid off.
For the first explanation of it being from Hart's work, no, I don't buy that. That's a staged scene, and it's representing an act, not a crime scene. There would be no photos of the crime happening, and the cops wouldn't have stood around the victim the way it's portrayed. As for movies, I can't see any situation where a gang rape video would have been in view of either of these children. What movies contain gang rapes? Not very many, and there's no way you'd be witnessing something like that in cop's house, who knows what he does is effed up. So, I can't see any way that he would be that irresponsible with his work or off time movies with his children. If it were 11 or 12 year olds, I'd totally buy your explanation, but it doesn't hold water for such young children. They would have to get there by total accident. Using your playing the range comment, the thing that makes the most sense is that one, or both, witnessed it, since there is that level of detail to their scene.
Quote:
We know Marty lies to his wife and lies to his girlfriend. Why wouldn't he lie about this too? Or perhaps incidents like this are what prompts him to "not bring home the work".
IMO, this is a much stronger argument that the girls didn't enact the scene based on anything they saw from Daddy's police work. I think it is too much of a stretch to assume they therefore must have seen an actual gang rape. More likely they either heard a description (or multiple descriptions) of Daddy's cases, or they saw a movie.
There's no disputing that Marty is a liar, and we should believe a liar is lying when they speak, but what we've seen on screen actually bears out that he does not want his kids witnessing anything potentially bad related to his work. I think a more interesting question is what happened to his previous partner, and the idea that his wife makes him bring partners home for dinner?
Again, no, just no, about them hearing a description and re-enacting the scene based on that. They are too young to have an imagination like that and to actually understand what they are creating with that level of detail, even if they don't understand the acts they are portraying. And again, if they saw a video, it would have been by accident, and there's just no way they would have watched enough of it to be able to stage the scene with that level of detail. One thing I will give you is that it is possible Hart had some sort of torture mags around, because he is definitely kinky, and probably took awhile to cross certain lines with others. Something important to note, and speaks to CMAR is that both of these guys are completely capable of being killers. Cohle knows he is, and Hart is denying how truly dark his personality is.
Quote:
So perhaps the point of the scene is that Marty can't successfully escape, even at home.
He can't escape at home, and that's the point his wife is making. It is his life. It owns him. I think the point of the scene is for character development. He sees but does nothing. That's his M.O. The moment he saw that scene, he should have called the older one back and asked her about it. His character is just completely apathetic about what's going on around him, until it directly affects him. He is a seriously scary dude. He has a terrible moral compass.
Quote:
No, can't rule it out as a possibility. It's just less likely than other possibilities. Put the girls on a range, not a single hand.
Again, based on what I think, I think it's the MOST likely conclusion. You disagree, and that's fine. If they never come back to it, we'll never know, but they will, and we'll figure out what was going on then. We need a lot more backstory to fill in for Hart, previous to working with Cohle.
Quote:
Marty's escaping from more than his job. He's irresponsible. I suspect that's going to tie in to the breakdown between him and Rust. Also I doubt the breakdown is due to Rust having an affair with Marty's wife. They just become friends. Isn't there dialog during Rust's interview about Maggie having set him up with some woman? That's more typically behaviour of a woman who is just a friend, rather than a current or ex girlfriend.
I think all of his irresponsibility is related to not having a moral compass. I also do not think the marriage lasted much beyond 1995. That would be one of the most miserable marriages ever to last another 7 years. Their marriage is already destroyed, and it's just about when either will be willing to pull the rip cord. She pretty much hates him already, and has a huge amount of resent toward him.
Quote:
Having had two girls (a long time ago, and all the grandkids are boys), my guess was 4 or 5 and 6-8. But maybe they grow 'em smaller and chubbier in SW Louisiane.
It is not unreasonable to point out that it looks like those dolls are getting ready for a gang rape. Or a commercially inspired gang-bang. Or maybe a forensic examination at a crime scene.
I really don't understand logic like this. This isn't some math problem to solve (we should assume that we're seeing is what we get in this instance, because of the age of the characters). I know we are living in a show filled with red herrings, but there are some things that are never meant to make an audience guess. This was clearly depicting a gang rape, and if it wasn't intended to it was extremely piss poor directing. That picture goofyballer posted is indisputable evidence of what was going on with those dolls, and I can't see any situation where what we see can be explained away innocuously (meaning it's not a gang rape). Again, how they saw it is up for debate, but the most logical conclusion is that they (or one) witnessed it live, which would explain the extreme detail in the scene. Second hand information doesn't get to that level of detail with such young kids, unless the director is incredibly dumb. I definitely do not think he is incredibly dumb, and think it was very obvious what he was trying to portray. This is another instance of no one believing when monsters are actually under the bed. We've gotten to such a twist TV and movie culture, that people don't believe what they're seeing is what they're meant to see. What would possibly be the reason to misdirect on something like this? It would make no sense.