pretty meh season so far full of bad play

it also doesn't help that the first 3 minutes of every episode is gonna be Reem whining about ****

survived an unexpected sweat in survivor survivor so at least that was cool

They voted out the one with the peepee? Noooo. They should take out the one without the peepee. Idiots! I cant believe they get dumber and dumber each season!

The one without a peepee found an idol????
Booooooo. I hate this show now. Idols are for peepee havers only. Mr probst. Stop cheating and resign

Adam, Jeremy, Jay and tonnes of men have cried finding idols but Aubry's a dumpster fire for doing so. LMAO sexism in this thread is unreal.

Agree that everyone on Manu played poorly. Props to David for getting in the tribe and sort of going under the radar despite being a returnee but I don't understand his strategy. I guess if this vote makes sense for anyone it's Wentworth given what she knows

Don't know why David is targeting her so hard this early. If anything he should be keeping her as an ally and a shield because she would get voted out first 10 times out of 10 before him. Early game play mistake IMO.

a) the edit made it look like they believed David that Wendy didn't steal the flint, and voting out Chris suggests some might believe he lost it.

b) while Wendy should go if she frees the chickens, the tribe won't vote her out because of the bad ankle since she competed in the challenge and even with the bum ankle she's one of the stronger swimmers out there.

c) Though bad at Survivor, Wendy is good TV.

Because she's no threat to win. Maybe she's annoying around camp. Who cares? The game isn't "let's have a party for 39 days with people we like". She's crap in challenges? These players know as well as anyone that there's always some kind of swap after 3-4 players are out.

Wendy is a wonderful irrelevant goat that they should all be trying to save.

David kept around Cece in the exact same way as Wendy

David knows Kelley is going to work with Joe. He doesnt have a relationship with him or her. That’s exactly why you should want someone out of the game

I disagree that the Manu tribe has such terrible gameplay. You have to look at their decisions individually.

For Wardog, the reasoning he laid out last week about keeping Kelley as a shield made a lot of sense, and would still apply for his decisions this week. It is also something he would be more cognizant of than others, since he is a bigger, louder guy who would be a standard post-merge target. So it is very reasonable for him to want to keep Kelley, and it seems like Kelley would be loyal to him too. Hard to fault him for choosing her over Chris.

For Kelley, with the news that Chris is after her, why should she have wanted Wendy out over him? Especially when Wardog, the one who brought her the news, wants Chris out? Would it really be worth it to fight him over this? I think it was clear that Wendy is her #1 target (as she should be, because she is set against her), but she was willing to go with the Chris plan because he wanted her out too. And that is what her allies wanted. She was able to handle that situation well enough to not get voted out, even with a lot of momentum against her. Hard to fault her for that.

For Chris, his decision to tell Wardog was clearly not just "loyalty" or "honesty" or being a good guy, or whatever. It was very much strategic, because he didn't want to alienate an ally. Instead, he told Wardog because he wanted to cultivate trust moving forward, instead of blindsiding him. He was trying to gain social capital, which is the main currency in Survivor. So if you think he was only telling him because of loyalty, you really don't understand how the game works. Obviously it backfired, but that is because he misread Wardog's allegiance, thinking he would choose Chris over Kelley. Had Wardog been more loyal to Chris, it would have been smart to keep him in the loop. So it was more of a bad read than bad strategy.

One person who is not getting mentioned, but who I have been very impressed by so far is Rick. He has positioned himself very well, to have the trust of seemingly everyone on the tribe. And he has handled himself well despite being in the middle. He keeps his options open no matter who he is talking to. He is clearly very in with both David and Wendy (moreso than David and Wendy are with each other, imo), and yet he was also the go-to guy for Wardog when Wardog wanted to tell someone about Chris. So he is getting intel from all sides. Hard to say he is playing badly.

I also want to talk about Wendy. I am surprised to see so much hate for her (although I shouldn't be, based on the history of these threads). She is very clearly just being herself out there rather than being super strategic, but that is because she assumed she was going home. As many have pointed out, she had an injured ankle and was already on the bottom, so she was the obvious vote.

So all the stuff with the chickens was just her last move of defiance to a tribe she thought was against her. Obviously it was not meant to further her gameplay. I think it was a reasonable assessment for her based on the previous two votes, and not knowing about the anti-Kelley momentum (considering she had pushed that unsuccessfully the last two times). So it's a bit harsh to judge her gameplay based on her not wanting chickens to be killed in front of her.

Speaking of the chickens, I don't remember anyone caring when Tai made a huge deal about saving them. And Wendy did not release them or say other people couldn't eat them, she just didn't want to eat it herself. That is her own preference and I don't see why anyone would judge her for it, if she isn't imposing it on others. I think others kind of felt a natural tension about it, but as she said at tribal, all she was doing was stepping aside and not wanting to be a part of it, and then defending her views when asked. I don't know what is wrong with that. I also don't think it's that unusual for someone to not want to see a chicken killed right in front of them, even if they eat chicken in their normal life. People are different.

Back to the gameplay, one thing about Wendy being totally herself is it has made her a great ally. We have seen David and Rick notice this. And even though she has a hurt ankle, she seems to be the best swimmer. She is also in a good category where if she can get past the early game, she should be able to fly by post-merge relatively under the radar, because she isn't a big threat. And if she somehow made it to the end, her authenticity is something that typically attracts jury votes. Additionally, she may benefit the most from a tribe swap, because she would fit right in with the anti-vet sentiment of Kama. So I've got bad news if you hate Wendy, because I think she is going to be around for a while (pending her ankle being a problem).

And then there's David. His decision this week is a bit more complicated. I think you can argue both ways about what he should have done. In the end, it seems like he wanted to get Chris out just to bury the evidence that he was ever against Kelley. I'm guessing he made this decision after noticing how against it Wardog was. He didn't want to burn Wardog. He probably also did not see much value in Chris, who went directly against his advice in telling Wardog the plan.

And if he looks at the bigger picture, he might have realized that the vets are getting closer to parity. It is now 11-4, but Joe/Aubry have Aurora, Kelley has Lauren/Wardog, and David has Rick/Wendy. So in the grand scheme of things, it's probably not such a bad thing for him to keep voting off new players. As for him targeting Kelley in the first place, what I'd say about that is it's almost always better to turn on someone too early rather than too late. I'd much rather be the David than the Kelley.

Overall, I think he has handled a tricky spot pretty well. He has managed it so that he's still in good standing with everyone on the tribe, which isn't easy to do after being close to a huge blindside.

The only person left on Manu is Lauren, who has total loyalty with Kelley, who is also a shield for her, plus an idol. And seems to be fine with Wardog. Hard to say she's playing badly. I think she should probably spread out and get more relationships with other people, but we may just not be seeing that. Or she is more concerned with being Kelley's #1 person, which isn't a terrible idea either. But props to her for both finding the idol and keeping it a secret.

So...yeah, hard to say this tribe is playing that badly.

And on the other tribe, we saw that Joe is in the same position as Aubry -- on the bottom. There honestly isn't a ton that returning players can do if there is strong anti-vet sentiment and they are largely outnumbered. Especially when there are no Reems or Keiths who would be obvious early boots.

Aubry soaked up all the criticism in this thread last week, but Joe doesn't seem to be doing any better -- besides just being a later target because of his strength around camp and in challenges. But that will work against him in the longrun. We also saw that Aurora could have possibly been the target even before Aubry.

Of course, no one mentioned how Aubry dominated the challenge this week. The same comp that David and Kelley couldn't do together. But sure, she's a total dumpster fire in every way.

She also should be given credit for searching everywhere for the idols, especially because it "wasn't even near any landmarks" as Banana man pointed out. Was Joe looking for idols? We didn't see any of that. No one is judging Joe's game though. I mean between the idol and the challenge domination, this was a fantastic episode for Aubry. Of course, everyone's takeaway is that she's a dumpster fire. While Joe is in the same exact position and has not been shown doing anything about it. Sure.

Probably the best thing Joe has been doing has been staying in the background at challenges instead of taking over. Aubry has arguably been more valuable than he has at comps. But this probably goes back to what he said in the premiere, where he doesn't want to shine brighter than anyone, which is smart for him. But anyways, the point is no one even cares to criticize or even analyze his game whatsoever, yet everything Aubry does is apparently terrible even when she's finding idols and winning comps.

Quite a lengthy essay there. Generally agree with your arguments from the parts I read.

I forgot about that (Joe and Kelley having played together before), that's a good point. Joe also might be naturally more suspicious of David's archetype given how much Fishbach was gunning for Joe the last time he played. So it makes a lot of sense for David to be conflicted about Kelley, as it's really not clear what he should do.

Chris's big mistake was not blaming the Kelley idea on someone else. His pitch to Wardog should have started, "David and Rick are talking about going after Wentworth", and see where that lead to.

Joe and Kelley won 100,000$ as teammates on Candy Crush

I love how the only defense to Aubry is 'OMG SEXISM'. Not 'she's a great player' or 'I love her strategy'.

Her social game is not existent and she's mediocre in challenges, and her interviews are some of the most boring in the history of Survivor. She has no redeeming qualities at all. But of course the producers save her with an idol and a tribe swap next week

How is she mediocre in challenges? She is one of the best at puzzles, and her athleticism isn’t a hindrance. She got over the balance beam in the first episode that stumped most of the Manu tribe. She also has two entire seasons full of a stellar social game, but sure. I don’t know why I’m bothering to explain when you think the producers are specifically rigging the game for her.

Also, you could have chosen to criticize her social game this season with any number of adjectives, but nonexistent is not one of them.

Sandra won twice playing the "she's no threat to win...we can vote her out at any time" strategy. Wendy is the new Sandra.

Your 100% the guy who loses to a flushdraw online and then won’t shut up about it is so obviously rigged.

Except she hid the flint and tried to convince another player to help her release the chickens.

The point that she assumes she's going home soon so isn't really giving her gameplay 100% is very fair. She was in the "out" group at first vote, is injured, and seems to have little in the way of allies. However, others get in that spot and work to get out of it. If we take what you say at face, then you're saying she's given up and is just having fun for the remaining few days she's out there. Not something survivor fans look at with appreciation.

As for Aubrey vs Joe - Joe has been nonexistent in terms of the show so far. He's at the challenges, he gets maybe a confessional (and to be honest, my recollection of past Joe seasons is that the people in these threads don't think too much of him). Aubrey has been much more a focus of the producers this season. Dumpster fire seems harsh to me; she's in a bad spot due to her returning status, and doesn't seem to currently be able to maneuver out of it. Lots of time left though.

Yep, that was the only real mistake this week.

Really? I thought people ITT hated Tai. Either way I seriously doubt people didn't make a fuss about it back then, I have to imagine the majority of rational, non-vegetarian people think it's a silly thing to make a scene about.

I actually kinda like Wendy, not sure why but she just seems like a nutjob who means no harm.

That said, chickens never get killed in front of the whole group and she definitely went much further than just not wanting to be a part of it. She literally tried to convince people not to kill them and even talked to someone about releasing them.


I like your description about the other players though.

they might anyway, just short numbers in 3 tribes depending on draw

Don't get the hate for Aubrey. Seems like a nice person, decent social game, not a huge liability in challenges.

With the three tribe swap coming up I'd say any team with Joe is a prohibitive favorite to win every challenge. Joe is head and shoulders above everyone else physically. It's too bad he's always going to be such an obvious target... I'm not sure what he could possibly do to change that, though.

Rest of the cast is pretty meh so far. I think the cute redhead has potential, and I like the newscaster. Wendy, Reem, and Keith have to be 3 of the worst cast members ever on this show. Probst probably loves Reem, for some reason he always mistakenly thinks that obnoxious older women make for great TV.

I don't see why David and Rick didn't just vote out Wentworth. That was their plan all along, and they had the numbers. Wendy and Chris still voted for Wentworth anyway, so David and Rick could easily have gotten rid of her if they decided to.

The "burying evidence against Wentworth" reason seems strange because it doesn't matter if Wentworth is gone. The "burning Wardog" reason seems strange because he was willing to burn him initially and didn't want to tell Wardog the Wentworth plan in the first place. The "no value in Chris" reason seems strange because Chris was still more useful to and less likely to turn on David than Wentworth is. Especially with a tribe swap coming soon, and you know Wentworth is likely to make other stronger alliances, whereas you may be able to regroup with Chris in the future.

The edit must be holding something back, because it didn't show a good reason¹ for David and Rick to change their minds.


¹ Understandably, for TC drama, but confusing in retrospect.