Normally I wouldn't support Brenda turning on Sash so quickly, but the HII is a problem; if she leaves it too long, she may get into a position where she can't actually get him out at all. Maybe waiting a week would be best, but Sash is easily the biggest threat to Brenda right now: idol-holder and more well-liked among everyone outside Brenda's group of 4 (Brenda/Chase/NaOnka/Kelly). Brenda has an extra reason to turn on Sash because Sash knows that if he turns on Brenda, he then has the strongest links with all of Brenda's old allies if he can persuade them that Brenda was a turncoat. Also, Sash is a big jury threat: if it's Brenda vs. Sash vs. random (say Dan/Jane) in the F3, who will Alina vote for? What about Fabio? What about Marty? etc.

lol i bet none of these people are thinking anything about these possibilities lol theyre all such bad players haha so little strategy this season omg i wish rupert and the rest of the hvv cast was back omg best strategic season evar no good players in nicarag they're all such idiots marty lol play ur idol idiot omg dont give it to sash sash an idiot too he too arrogant alina lololol do something strategic jane too old to be a good survivor player holly buried dans shoes shes too emotional for this game brenda seemed smart then she called out marty at tc lololol u idiot um who am i forgetting obv dan is a worthless player benry challenge stud should have held back in challenges kelly purple staying too far under the radar does she even talk wtf kelly no one out there even knows who u are naonka too mean to be a good plyre srsly i wish there were good plaeyrs in this season like in hvv that season so so so epic i mean coach jerri rupert colby sandra sugar jt danielle dilorenzo courtney amanda james stephanie THATS A GREAT STRATEGIC CAST I MISS IT SO MUCH

Did you have a stroke or something?

just trying to fit in

mostly just tired of hearing people talk **** about this cast, because it's one of the best they've had in forever. Guess what, they don't pick the 20 most strategic people that apply for the show. And if they did, the show would suck.

Whatever though, bemoan the fact that it's not HvV some more. All those amazing strategic minds I listed at the end of my post. The producers read that crap and decide that they need fresh new ideas like ROB VS RUSSELL.

In the end, Russell has killed Survivor. There's this whole new breed of strategic gamebot fans who don't enjoy watching people like Holly, Jane, NaOnka, and Dan because they're "horrible players". Give me a break.

Guess what? There weren't that many SUPER STRATEGIC players in HvV. There were like 5 of them. And they got tons of airtime. And HvV sucked. All those HIIs make people like Kos cream in their pants, but it waters down the show a ton, and turns it from a show about personalities into a bunch of STRATEGYSTRATEGYSTRATEGY crap.

And it's not that I don't like the strategic side of Survivor, or that all I care about is stuff like family visits and watching people grow from their experience on the island.

My favorite players of all-time mix the elements of strategy and entertainment together. Kathy V in Marquesas. Jamie in Guatemala. Chris in Vanuatu. Kenny in Gabon. Jean-Robert in China. All of those people attempted to play the game well, but were entertaining for reasons beyond just LOOK AT HOW GOOD HE/SHE IS AT SURVIVOR.

It's not a ****ing professional sporting event where we're trying to see incredible athletes perform at a world-class level. It's a TV show. And while this season is far from the best they've ever had, it's certainly better than crap seasons like Cook Islands, Fiji, and Palau.

nice level.

nice job being fooled by JR's edit as a lumbering buffoon. The whole "start off lazy, show that I'm strong late" idea was dumb. But he definitely went onto Survivor with the idea of playing hard for a million dollars. His execution was just piss-poor.

I'm loving your posts. I really like it when intelligent people have different perspectives than my own and back it up.

Anyway, I still think you highly underrate HvV. JT, Parvati, Russell, Rob, Randy, Cirie, Tyson, and Sandra all have that mix of strategy and entertainment. You also have Courtney and Coach (and Coach did seem to step up his strategic game a bit) who, while not very strategic, are highly entertaining. You also have Danielle and Jerri who, while not very entertaining, were very strategic.

so his basic strategy was dumb...

and his execution of that dumb strategy was piss-poor, yet he was a good player?

Stating in some generic way that you will "play hard" as he did a million times on the show and since does not make you a good player any more than being a lagtard makes someone a good poker player simply because they are being aggressive.

Clovis missing the point, for a change.

This is vintage KK logic...

bad strategy+bad execution=good player.

KK gonna be KK.

Neither boc nor I said he was good. When someone says you missed the point, you may want to re-evaluate what you think the point was rather than repeating yourself.

even when it's an idiot?


BOC said I was fooled by the edit when I called him bad, which logically (I realize you have no idea what logic is) means he is calling him a good player.

I broke the most basic rule of this community. Never engage clovis under any circumstances. He's like the FrankieBigNuts of 2+2 Survivor forums.

If you NEVER responded to one of my post for the rest of my life I would be very grateful.

whatever, I'm not concerned with who Clovis thinks the "good players" are. I'm concerned with who brings the entertainment. It's an very large bonus if they have an entertaining storyline during their season. It's another bonus if they're trying hard to win. Poker players (even lol busto live donkament players) probably also get a bonus.

this cast is awesome, gamebot fans suck

perhaps I missed your main point about JRB. I agree he was entertaining as hell. He was just really horrid at the game.

If you dont follow JRB twitter you need to start right now. He is one of the best tweeters out there.

I admit I am part of of the strategy mob. I find it hard to enjoy a season with no good players. I need to see good play to make it fun. Sure the morons are fun in small doses but it cant sustain a whole season for me.

You overstate your case here boc. Even the most ardent Russell/Marty fans on this forum appreciate Fabio's cluelessness and want to paddle Brenda's board, iykwim. I loved HvV, and I really like this season as well, even though they're markedly different; I don't see why you have to choose between them.

Also lol at including Kenny in the lists of interesting strategists, he seems like a nice guy but he wasn't a big character in Gabon.

Kenny was a huge character in Gabon. He had a giant personal growth story, coming of age in the jungle, became a semi-villain after taking control of the game when Susie flipped, went from naive child to overconfident villain, tried to get Bob to hand over his idol, and wound up fitting tightly into the season's overall theme of Good vs Evil, decidedly on the Evil side.

Who do you think WERE the big characters in the Gabon post-merge? Bob, Matty, Susie were all kept under the radar to varying degrees. The big characters were Sugar and Kenny, with Corinne/Crystal/Randy as other major characters. Feel free to go back and rewatch Gabon if you don't believe me.

Thanks for the permission to rewatch Gabon. Since I rewatched it not that long ago, I feel confident in saying that Kenny wasn't the entertainment + strategy blend you made him out to be. His 'coming of age' story was one confessional that was then rehashed a few times at TC, not really a story arc. Him trying to get Bob to hand over the idol consisted of making a promise with Bob, then getting all moralistic at TC when Bob decided he'd like not to get voted out. What humorous moments did he have (other than things like his quasi-bromance with Matty)?

Marcus (+ the Onions in general) and Ace were the focus of attention pre-merge, then Randy and Corinne in their respective boot episodes post-merge, with Sugar's crying being the only constant recipient of camera time. Ken was definitely portrayed as a villain by the end, but he'd been that way since the beginning of the game (e.g. convincing Sugar to turn on Ace). If you found random moments of his entertaining, then great, but slating everyone else for being focused on strategy at the expense of entertainment just so that you can tell everyone how much you like Kenny is a bit pointless imo. Charlie and Corinne would both be better examples of entertaining and strategic players.

The Bob/idol stuff was much more than what happened at TC. He told everyone to act like they were gonna vote out Kenny so Bob would give up his idol, and then they'd all vote Bob out. But Sugar ratted him out. It was a major plot point of the season.

As were the voteouts of Ace and Marcus, both of which were heavily influenced by Kenny.

He also received plenty of non-strategy scenes. Off the top of my head, there's the episode 1 stuff with Michelle, and a scene where he attempts to paddle a boat to go fishing but just winds up going around in circles. Nothing major, he's not a camerawhore like Shane or Coach, but his story arc was majorly significant to Gabon.

I remember that while Gabon was airing, I was pretty indifferent to Kenny. But the night he was voted out, I found his to be a great story arc played to completion. Kenny's coming of age in the jungle. I'm not Asian or a competitive video gamer or anything, but maybe as a somewhat young male I felt some connection to the story? Who knows. Feel free to disagree.

If I put together a total list of my favorite characters, Kenny probably wouldn't come in the top 5 like I may have made it seem. But he's just one that quickly popped to head while I was posting earlier.

+50

This man speaks truth. It's the mix that makes the show. I can be entertained or interested in many types of players and typically maintain an interest in watching things unfold whether I'm particularly pleased with how things are going or not. But I enjoy the show more when the characters touch my passion in some way (either I identify with them in some way and want to root for them, or they repulse me and I want to watch them lose, or maybe they just make me laugh a lot--maybe, they are Russell Hantz and hit every button I have.) My Everywoman has a very hard time getting into the show if there is no one she cares to root for, or at least someone she can muster up some passion to root against. And a lot of viewers probably feel that way. And guess what, the characters that I enjoy and the characters that my Everywoman enjoys are usually quite different. (I tend to like hers okay in some ways, but sometimes she doesn't like the people who amuse me at all.) But the point is, it takes all kinds. And this is just to satisfy the many varied viewers tastes and doesn't take into account the dynamic having a variety of characters creates for the show.

Let's be clear though. Russell hasn't ruined anything. The gamebot fans have always prefered the Russells, the Parvs, and the Martys to the Hollys, the Naonkas, and the Dans--Russell didn't cause that. Sidenote: these gamebot fans have always existed and they liked Kenny too. I think your beef may simply be that there are a preponderance of them here at 2+2, but I don't know what you expect.

My Everywoman doesn't like Coach (unfairly IMO) and she hates Russell (but she likes to watch him lose). She likes Jane and Holly--they are mom-types and so is she. It has been a long time, but I think I remember my Everywoman saying something like the following in reference to Rob Cesternino: "{disapproving tone} That Rob is cocky in his confessionals. I guess he's a good player. {sounding skeptical}" She was super happy about Natalie beating Russell. Poor KOS just broke out in hives. But I love my Everywoman...and I love KOS. I like to hear their toughts about Survivor even though their perspectives are wildly different. I think they are both wrong sometimes. Does that make them wrong and me right? No, but Soncy is definitely going to Soncy. If I didn't think my opinions were right, I'd change them.

Just to touch on the dynamic of varied characters issue I mentioned---Let me pose this question: Who would Russell russell if he was playing against a bunch of hard core players? Let's not begrudge the shepherds their sheep. Besides, sometimes the sheep take home the money. So maybe the shepherds still have a thing or two to learn and perhaps our disdain for the sheep is misplaced.

It takes all kinds. But I would submit that same theory applies here. State your opinions people. And state them well. I'd guess that sometimes we will be right here {making motion as if to suggest seeing eye to eye}, and sometimes I will think you are a loon or vice versa. But I'm willing to hash things out if it seems interesting.

As to the Nic cast vs. HvV cast debate. Again, it's subjective. I believe Boc is correct about there only typically being a handful of 'good players' in any given season--even those in which returning players are invovled. But my Everywoman seems to prefer not having to spend time getting to know new players (an aspect of Survivor that I enjoy) and really likes All-Star seasons because of all the familiar faces.

Wait...who is arguing that they should have 20 strategically-sound players out there? This is an above-average cast, they're just creating below-average Survivor TV.

And LOL at "Russell killing Survivor" by being smart. Not only does that make no sense, but it's not like he's the first smart person to ever play the game or be popular. Why not bash Cesternino, who is smarter, a better player, and hosts a weekly podcast that can only educate fans and make them hate dumber players even more? Several posters ITT just bash Russell for the hell of it.

So your complaining about people complaing about a season of Survivor, all the while complaining about a season of Survivor? lol

Sure this cast is great for entertainment value, mostly because they are stupid as dog **** when they are playing the game. The show of Survivor started to die when they decided to stop bringing in people who watched the show, and only went with casting agencies, and casting directors. But it goes up, and then down.

This show is so maniuplated from every point in the process of making it.

I agree Kos. First there was Richard, then there was Rob C, then Boston Rob, Todd, Russell, etc, etc.