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Old 10-28-2010, 01:51 PM   #2251
Nucleon
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by kartinken View Post
It's just not fun or interesting to focus on the edits, and most of the edit conjecture is just wrong anyway. You aren't as bad with this as some, but most people who try to figure out things from gaming the editors just wind up looking foolish and detract from the actual discourse.
I think at times it can be just as fun as to talk about how they edit the show, as what goes on the show. Like what Boc said, this show is so heavily-manipulated that you can talk about how bad it is. You use to could figure out the ending by looking at who the animal was prior to tribal as a foreshadowing device by Burnett productions.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:57 PM   #2252
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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go to Pooter's 4L thread imo

I still like Marty the most (after Fabio obv.) but he's been ****ing up massively these past few weeks. As odd as it sounds I actually think Holly is playing well right now, but next week is bound to be a cluster**** of epic proportions so any predictions I might make could easily get blown away.
I agree with you on Holly. I guess I grade people on a curve. Like handicapping in golf. If they are playing well for them, I give them some credit for playing well. And at the moment, I'd say Holly is playing a lot better than Marty. ...Or I've just misjudged Marty.

Also, I try to divorce my rankings from who I would want to win, or necessariy even who I think is playing well, and keep it strictly who I think will actually win. Or at least seems to be in the best position at the moment.
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:23 PM   #2253
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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+1 for the Flor de Cana.

Quality Nicaraguan rum ITT
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:44 PM   #2254
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by kartinken View Post
It's just not fun or interesting to focus on the edits, and most of the edit conjecture is just wrong anyway. You aren't as bad with this as some, but most people who try to figure out things from gaming the editors just wind up looking foolish and detract from the actual discourse.
That's like, your opinion, man.

Reading into the editing is pretty much the biggest (only?) reason I enjoy Survivor. I'm not big into the reaction shot-type stuff or the animal imagery or any of that (Though your girl Sandra definitely got some badass reaction shots in HvV. Watch the episode where Parv finds the idol clue at the picnic and sneaks off to share it with Danielle. Sandra is shown looking off, presumably towards Parv/Danielle, with a very suspicious look on her face.)

I focus more on story arcs, loose ends that need to be tied up, and the roles that the characters play. I think it's fun for a number of reasons. Mostly it's an attempt to project what's going to happen on the show down the road.

Here's an example. In either episode 1 or 2, Brenda called Chase slow, or dumb, or something along those lines. This is important stuff. You may or may not realize this, but much of the stuff that we know about the castaways comes through second-person word of mouth. For example, Fabio is a big goofy idiot, correct? How did we initially learn that? Through confessionals with members of the young tribe, especially Shannon.

Back to Chase. The editors meticulously pick and choose every bit of footage that hits the screen. Winners don't get called "dumb" or "slow" by their fellow castaways, because we the viewers don't think that "dumb, slow" people should win Survivor. One of the primary goals of the editors is to ensure that the resolution of the season makes sense to the viewers.

So, this means Chase can't win, correct? Well, not so fast. There's another recent winner who was called "dumb" by a fellow castaway. Natalie was called dumb by Russell in episode 1 of Samoa. What wound up happening in Samoa, though, was Russell was the one who proved to be "dumb", and was being outsmarted by Natalie the entire time, as the editors implied she knew the whole time that Russell couldn't win a jury vote. (I don't care to debate whether or not that was actually the case. It's been beaten to death.)

So, basically... Chase can still win, despite being called "slow" by Brenda. However, he's going to need to pull a Natalie, and show the viewers that he can outwit and outplay Brenda.

Or, Brenda could prove that Chase really is an idiot, and totally abuse him after the merge. Either way, the Brenda/Chase relationship is an unresolved storyline, and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes post-merge.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:25 PM   #2255
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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That's like, your opinion, man.
You had me at this.

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So, this means Chase can't win, correct? Well, not so fast. There's another recent winner who was called "dumb" by a fellow castaway. Natalie was called dumb by Russell in episode 1 of Samoa. What wound up happening in Samoa, though, was Russell was the one who proved to be "dumb", and was being outsmarted by Natalie the entire time, as the editors implied she knew the whole time that Russell couldn't win a jury vote. (I don't care to debate whether or not that was actually the case. It's been beaten to death.)

So, basically... Chase can still win, despite being called "slow" by Brenda. However, he's going to need to pull a Natalie, and show the viewers that he can outwit and outplay Brenda.

Or, Brenda could prove that Chase really is an idiot, and totally abuse him after the merge. Either way, the Brenda/Chase relationship is an unresolved storyline, and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes post-merge.
Russell also called Sandra "bad," but yeah I feel like that was all intentionally done to show the world Russell doesn't know how to play Survivor.

I definitely analyze the editing myself. I think I have commented on it a few times, especially in the HvV thread. I just can't shake the feeling that it's spoilerish to do it publicly.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:00 PM   #2256
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Spoilerish? Maybe. I mean, I guess it's disappointing to Kelly Shinn followers to know that she has essentially zero chance to win this season. And watch, Kelly WILL have a story arc. In the episodes leading up to when she's eventually voted out, they'll probably start playing up how much of a threat she is to win, she has no enemies, hasn't ruffled any feathers, blah blah blah. If you're savvy to the editing, you'll realize that it's just a bunch of smoke with no fire (See: Brett in Samoa, Natalie in FvF), and that may take away from a small portion of the entertainment of the show.

On the other hand, this is far from an exact science. The editing techniques are fluid, not static. The Edgic thread thought Amanda was a lock to win China. They picked Erinn to win Tocantins. And Mick was the closest thing to a "winner's edit" in Samoa. In the end, it's still kind of a guessing game.

It's just a different way of watching the show that may or may not be for everyone. I'm coming to grips with the fact that there are many different ways to enjoy this show, and attempting to restrain myself from going on any more rants about the more casual views that are frequently shared in this thread. We can all get along!
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:33 PM   #2257
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Dish's episode description didn't make sense, as it never happened:

Spoiler:


anyway, still don't understand why they passed on marty again. I'm not his biggest fan, but hope he runs through them after the merge for being idiots
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:36 PM   #2258
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

id be the most ungrateful reality contestant. if a reward was a horseback, my confessional would be pissed off about have no interest in it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:44 PM   #2259
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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id be the most ungrateful reality contestant. if a reward was a horseback, my confessional would be pissed off about have no interest in it.
you also got to squeeze a cow's "nipples"
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:48 PM   #2260
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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GIFs of the multiple shots of Brenda's backside and Dan's 'attempt' in the reward challenge PLZZZZZZZZZZZzz
Have Dan's MVP performance





Dragged (literally dragged, once his knees inevitably give out) "aching" and "moaning (in pain)" to the finals?

Stranger things have happened
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:02 PM   #2261
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Have Dan's MVP performance


poor guy
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:09 PM   #2262
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Separated at birth: courtesy of Sucks







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Old 10-28-2010, 07:10 PM   #2263
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

So the merge will take place next week. Here's who is going into the merge:

Kelly P Young LF
Brenda Young LF
Sash Young LF
Fabio Young LF
Chase Young E
Benry Young E
NaOnka Young E
Alina Young E
Marty Old LF
Jane Old LF
Dan Old E
Holly Old E

What do you think the scenarios for alignment will be?

Sash, Brenda, Jane, Fabio, and Kelly P seem tight. Jane doesn't have anyone on Espada that she's especially close to. Chase, NaOnka, Holly, and to a lesser extent Benry also seem tight. Alina and Marty are the two players on the outs. Dan is just sorta there.

So do Chase/Holly/NaOnka/Benry reacquaint with Sash/Brenda? If so, the logical scenario would be to vote out Marty, Alina, and Dan. If they don't come together, do they try to persuade Marty/Alina to join in with them? If so, who do they target?

I have made a little worksheet too! Based on what we've seen so far, how would you play the merge scenario from ______'s perspective?

Kelly P -
Brenda -
Sash -
Fabio -
Chase -
Benry -
NaOnka -
Alina -
Marty
Jane -
Dan -
Holly -
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:49 PM   #2264
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

My thoughts:

Spoiler:

Last edited by SavageTilt; 10-28-2010 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:03 PM   #2265
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

How if he votes Jill does he save the idol?
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:09 PM   #2266
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

If they're splitting the votes, they're probably going to put 3 on Jill, 2 on Marty (since Marty is less likely to give the idol to Jill then to use it on himself, which could be relevant if somebody in the majority of 5 flips). If Jill's vote is for someone else, it doesn't matter anyway; but if Jill votes for Marty, Marty can save himself and the idol by voting for Jill.


Rankings:
1. Sash
2. Chase
3. Brenda
4. Holly
5. Kelly

Last edited by SavageTilt; 10-28-2010 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:21 PM   #2267
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Didn't they say they were going to go 3 Marty, 2 Jill?
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:22 PM   #2268
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by SavageTilt View Post
If they're splitting the votes, they're probably going to put 3 on Jill, 2 on Marty (since Marty is less likely to give the idol to Jill then to use it on himself, which could be relevant if somebody in the majority of 5 flips). If Jill's vote is for someone else, it doesn't matter anyway; but if Jill votes for Marty, Marty can save himself and the idol by voting for Jill.
If Marty had kept the idol, Sash said they were planning on 3 voting for Marty and 2 on Jill. If Marty doesn't use the idol, he's gone*. If he does, Jill is in a re-vote with whoever Marty/Jill vote for. Brendasha wins the re-vote by numbers.

Now Marty could use his vote on Jill. If he decides to keep the idol, not play it and vote for Jill, it's 3-3 and up for a re-vote featuring B,KP,F,J,S. If he does use it, Jill is gone.

* Please use the Russell Hantz voice for whenever I use the word "gone".
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:52 PM   #2269
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Fair enough, that makes sense. Nonetheless, handing over the idol is a stupid risk to take. If he wants to take a gamble, not playing the idol and hoping something goes randomly wrong still seems safer.

Another angle: what if he tells Sash that he's not giving up the idol, but that he's willing to vote Jill as a token of submission?
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:26 PM   #2270
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Does Probst watch the show?

Quote:
I’m really starting to like Jane. She’s a slow burn. She’s been through a lot in life and I think that is part of the reason why she is so headstrong and fearless. Jane just doesn’t care what you think about her and that’s one of the reasons that if I had to choose somebody to be my mate in the foxhole, Jane would be high on the list.
She certainly seemed to care that Marty and Jill made no effort to play with her or acknowledge her existence. And she certainly seems to care that Sash and company says nice things about her and makes her feel important and needed. I don't take issue with Probst being a Jane fan, but she clearly cares what people think of her...or at least that they treat her with respect.

Quote:
“Jane’s a flipper.” Marty has such a double standard. He complains that people aren’t playing the game and he also complains when people do play the game. Jane is playing the game. There is nothing wrong with what she is doing, it makes sense to try and get with the majority. Man, I talk a lot about Marty.
Marty and Brenda both spin things their way to try to cast others in a negative light. Brenda on Shannon: "You can't trust him." When her boy wonder was the one who couldn't be trusted. Last tribal, Marty and Brenda got in a make each other look bad sparring match, both vying for Jane's loyalty. This week's tribal, Marty is on Jane's case for looking out for herself. When they are up to these antics, I'm just not sure how much is for show and how much they actually believe what they are saying.

Quote:
But most of all, Sash may be in trouble. He has a weapon in the hidden immunity idol and he just revealed that he will use it if he ever feels he is in danger. In doing so, he just put a big target on his back.
After all the rats went scrambling off the Sash ship, I was left wondering if I'm dim. I felt like Kirby about the pool-peeing in that I didn't think Sash's slip-up was nearly as catastrophic as people were making it out. Reason being, doesn't the bolded above go without saying? Newsflash: The idol is a tool. This just in: Someone who has one will probably try to figure out a way to use it to his advantage. How is any of this news?

Funny response to Jeff's question would have been: "Jeff, do I look like some idiot who is going to give up an immunity idol?"

Alternate response might have been: "Sorry, Jeff, I have an agreement to give it back to Marty if we lose the next IC." Then, let Jeff run with that one.

But I like something along the lines of: "Why Brenda? Why not one of the other members of my alliance? There is a lot of game left and we may need to use this idol to preserve our alliance down the road. I trust these guys and value their input, but I have the idol and I'd like to have final say in how we use it."

What would you guys have said?
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:01 AM   #2271
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Dan and Marty are tight, and Holly seems to get along well with everyone on NuEspada. Brenda and Sash are locked in (although this can and should change, as I'll go into a minute). NaOnka is emotionally tied to the Brendashians, is in a relatively good position among them compared to the sixth wheel status she'd be guaranteed with Alina/Benry/Holly/Marty/Dan (I'll call them the Misfits), and isn't clever enough to recognise opportunities to flip anyway.
I think you look at the tv edit to much with Dan. Yve was super close to Marty, and I wouldn't be suprised if something more didn't transpire... but from Yve's perspective Dan, and Holly were not as pro Marty as what the TV edit makes them to be. Though I do agree with your points that Dan, and Holly would join back up with Marty.

Also Fabio seems to be playing the loyality card for staying with his team which could, or could not change. We are talking about Fabio of all people! lol

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Originally Posted by SavageTilt View Post
Another angle: what if he tells Sash that he's not giving up the idol, but that he's willing to vote Jill as a token of submission?
The perception could be that Marty is just saying those things to stay longer in the game, and with a potential merge coming up why keep him with a idol? Though we are still talking about the two people who decided not to get rid of the idol! lol

Other idea is why don't we just pull the trigger, and get rid of the idol now? Which is what I think would have happened. I think there was a lot more to keeping Marty over Jill last night that we didn't see because either Sash, and Brenda are keeping it in their heads without telling anyone, or they did discuss it but didn't show it for the drama for who actually goes home at tribal.

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Originally Posted by Soncy View Post
After all the rats went scrambling off the Sash ship, I was left wondering if I'm dim. I felt like Kirby about the pool-peeing in that I didn't think Sash's slip-up was nearly as catastrophic as people were making it out. Reason being, doesn't the bolded above go without saying? Newsflash: The idol is a tool. This just in: Someone who has one will probably try to figure out a way to use it to his advantage. How is any of this news?
The idol is a tool only if people actually believe you will use it amongst each other, or that you would actually give it to them when they are actually in danger. Most people would not trust someone saying they would use it on someone else, unless they were extremly close to one another.

The best move is to not let everyone know that you have it, and then your next best move is telling your best friend out there.

If everyone knows you have the idol, the best move to make outside of flushing it out, is to to blindside you. With not many people but yourself, and possibly one other person knowing you have it, it is much easier to figure out if you are going home, and then to suprise the people voting you out that you actually have it, and stay in the game.

The problem with this scenario is that Sash may have been worried about Marty giving the idol to him, and upon eviction, which would have went against the deal between the two would be that Marty blurts out to everyone that he gave the idol to you, and now no one on your tribe trusts you.

Quote:
Alternate response might have been: "Sorry, Jeff, I have an agreement to give it back to Marty if we lose the next IC." Then, let Jeff run with that one.

But I like something along the lines of: "Why Brenda? Why not one of the other members of my alliance? There is a lot of game left and we may need to use this idol to preserve our alliance down the road. I trust these guys and value their input, but I have the idol and I'd like to have final say in how we use it."

What would you guys have said?
How many people are actually going to believe that you are going to give it back to them? I don't think Brenda believes it, and that she knew that if Sash's plan worked they wouldn't give it back to Marty.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:59 AM   #2272
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Secret Scenes have prompted me to say:

Apparently, they thought Marty and Jill might have another idol. Re: the vote spliting.

Dan said he felt misty over the food reward as well. Does Naonka have the need to demonize the person she is thinking about voting out?

Sash fed Jill a line of team La Flor BS which she felt good about. And Marty's response when she related her conversation to him: "That's a bunch of bull. I don't believe any of that." (Cut to Marty giving Sash his idol?)

Ben seems to think he is control of Dan. However, he also seems to think he is in control of the tribe, and I bet Chase thinks HE is in contol of the tribe. Also, in saying La Flor didn't have a lot to work with in these challenges, he listed Marty as one of the better competitors on the La Flor tribe. He must have been comparing him to Dan.

I like how Sash is sitting on a bed of flowers for his secret scene. He is still insisting that girls in New York love him, though. Cliffs: "I'm giving about 70% in these challenges. There are some very strong players both on La Flor and Espada and if they continue to show that they are strong, hopefully they will be the first to be weeded out." Sounds like we better hope his slip up at TC has immediate consequences for Benry's sake. Benry spent the first ten minutes of his secret scene extolling his own virtures in these challenges. Not that he needs to, his prowress is obv (which he actually pointed out as well). Sash needs to spend more time rehearsing his speeches like Marty. He screwed up his closer in the secret scene. (Also, maybe he could have avoided the TC snafu if he had been more prepared. Should have had someone Probst him for answers ahead of time.)

Invisible Kelly is cute. I just don't see how the term hot applies to both her and Parvati. Whatever, fellas. To be honest, I was probably busted with the dumb Brad Pitt argument. I'd be hard pressed to find Brad Pitt anything but hot. Is invisible Kelly really hot enough to be referring to her in the same paragraph as Brad Pitt? I find that hard to believe. She's just cute isn't she? Like Josh Hartnet, he's cute...smoking cute, but probably shy of hot. Did you make it through her scene this time, KOS? It seemed even worse than the last one to me.

Jill was toast, sorry I backed her earlier--although, to be fair I was backing her attachment to Marty--also, a mistake as it turned out. Nice lady though. Jane is wildly better at Survivor than Jill.

Brenda channeling some KOS: "If I care about my fate in this game, I have to control the game."

Oh, Jane is so going to get busted for all this secret eating she is doing. Regarding her next to that gollum picture: quite flexible for no spring chicken. No way could I squat comfortably like that. My right knee hurts just looking at that picture.

Oops, I was a little off on the Siren. Too tame. Hydra? Marty dubs Brenda devil spawn among other things. Dude is really clinging to his honesty. Are you sure this is your man, KOS?

Listening to these people, I'm rethinking my burning desire to go on Survivor for the diet. It sounds like it might be a really bad idea.

Oh no, Alina's horse was a rebel. Nipping and misbehaving. What is the animal significance of this? Is it a bad omen. Sounds bad. Should I have spoiler tagged this?

Naonka: "The quiet people are the ones that got the most to say."
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Old 10-29-2010, 03:01 AM   #2273
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Soncy View Post
Secret Scenes have prompted me to say:

Apparently, they thought Marty and Jill might have another idol. Re: the vote spliting.
How can this be true when Brenda knows full well that Na has the idol???
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Old 10-29-2010, 03:34 AM   #2274
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Invisible Kelly is cute. I just don't see how the term hot applies to both her and Parvati. Did you make it through her scene this time, KOS? It seemed even worse than the last one to me.
I actually did suffer through this one, but the poor girl is extremely boring. Hot encompasses several things. She is definitely more on the cute side (looks-wise only) than Parv; she's adorable, which is what I prefer over "hot" girls. If only she had a brain...

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Originally Posted by Soncy View Post
Marty dubs Brenda devil spawn among other things. Dude is really clinging to his honesty. Are you sure this is your man, KOS?
This week definitely made me respect his game less...but he did survive. I don't know. I should probably hold off judgment until the end of the game. I really thought he was on his way to cracking my top 15, but he doesn't deserve to be there as of now. I do feel, though, that he would have been much better in a "normal" season where his tribe didn't totally suck. Much like Russell and Boston Rob, his game and his personality aren't suited for playing from behind. He can make it through the way Russell did, but he's more likely to get clipped early the way Boston Rob 1.0 did because he's such an obvious target.
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Old 10-29-2010, 04:25 AM   #2275
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Kos, just reading some past Survivor threads and I have a question. Why is it better to be up 5-4 with 9 left than it is to be up 6-3?
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