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Old 01-04-2011, 05:33 PM   #5176
cash mahne
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Kos13 View Post
My point is that you, like many others, appear to be making the sweeping statement of, "Strategists can't win anymore because of the changes we've seen in the last three seasons." Of course, there have only been two strategists to lose in those three years, and they're both douchey. The game hasn't changed to where UTR is suddenly the way to go, CBS just happened to cast two unlikable strategists back-to-back.

In other words, the reason Russell and Sash lost isn't because they were strategists, it's because they were unlikable. If you stick a Yau-Man or a Cesternino out there in S22, and they play a strategic game, they're going to win vs. any UTR player you put up against them. The only way you win playing UTR is if you are sitting next to a Russell or a Sash.
Where did I say strategists can't win anymore? BTW, being likable is huge. Russell and Sash have the strategy part down, but because they aren't likable they are not good at this game, unless you just consider making it to the end being good with 0 chance of winning.

Out of 27 combined FTC votes, Russell and Sash have a combined 2 votes. In other words they suck at the game, if winning the game means your a good player. To me, if you can't win your not good. Good TV is another thing.

I love Russell, don't get me wrong. The guy outplays and outwits tons of people, including one of my favs B. Rob. But if your not likable you won't win. That is his problem, hopefully he changed it for 22.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:48 PM   #5177
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I don't know why you keep bringing up Russell. I feel like any time I use the word "strategy" ITT, anyone replying to me IMMEDIATELY mentions Russell. All I'm saying is that UTR is not suddenly the correct way to play the game. Put Sash on Cook Islands and Yul on Nicaragua, and we're never even having this conversation. It's merely a coincidence that Russell and Sash played in back-to-back-to-back seasons, and their unlikability is the only reason UTR players have won the last three games.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:51 PM   #5178
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Since I marathoned a ton of seasons earlier this year, some people blend together. Yul was the one that had the absurd idol right?

Kos, iyo who are the best players from a strategy standpoint?
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:59 PM   #5179
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Since I marathoned a ton of seasons earlier this year, some people blend together. Yul was the one that had the absurd idol right?
Yes, and the idol is like 75% of the reason he won. I do think he'd kick ass in pretty much any season, though.

Quote:
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Kos, iyo who are the best players from a strategy standpoint?
I don't want to spoil certain seasons for you, so I'll put it in spoilers. Click at your own risk:

Spoiler:
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:38 PM   #5180
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Where did I say strategists can't win anymore? BTW, being likable is huge. Russell and Sash have the strategy part down, but because they aren't likable they are not good at this game, unless you just consider making it to the end being good with 0 chance of winning.

Out of 27 combined FTC votes, Russell and Sash have a combined 2 votes. In other words they suck at the game, if winning the game means your a good player. To me, if you can't win your not good. Good TV is another thing.

I love Russell, don't get me wrong. The guy outplays and outwits tons of people, including one of my favs B. Rob. But if your not likable you won't win. That is his problem, hopefully he changed it for 22.
I sort of do think you can say Russell is good...in a way. I mean, you get more money the farther you go and there is always Fan Favorite $ to win as well. He has some great skills for the game.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:50 PM   #5181
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Yes, and the idol is like 75% of the reason he won. I do think he'd kick ass in pretty much any season, though.

Yea, that season was one of my favorite. Between him and Ozzy, the season was pretty entertaining. I agree with you that Yul would do well in any season. I just wish the idol hadn't of been so powerful that season as it kind of results in people undervaluing his win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kos13 View Post
I don't want to spoil certain seasons for you, so I'll put it in spoilers. Click at your own risk:

Spoiler:


There are a few I don't know, but one that jumps out at me is Todd. When watching China I got the feeling that his "great" strategy was more along the lines of making what should be awful moves and having someone else screw up worse than he did (with the James 2 idol thing being a major example). I have to rewatch that season -which is fine by me, I really enjoyed that one - and go over it again. I do recall at the time that I watched it thinking that if Amanda didn't have such a terrible FTC she would have had my vote, but with all the seasons I've marathoned it blends together.


Also, definitely agree that Parvati > pretty much everyone.


Side note (spoiled for Vanuatu winner):

Spoiler:
.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:03 PM   #5182
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Comparing Sash to Russell in terms of strategy is LOL. Sash was thoroughly average and Russell is probably the best to ever play (in terms of voting/idol/alliance strategy only).

Regarding Yul:
Spoiler:
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:17 PM   #5183
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kos13 View Post
I don't know why you keep bringing up Russell. I feel like any time I use the word "strategy" ITT, anyone replying to me IMMEDIATELY mentions Russell. All I'm saying is that UTR is not suddenly the correct way to play the game. Put Sash on Cook Islands and Yul on Nicaragua, and we're never even having this conversation. It's merely a coincidence that Russell and Sash played in back-to-back-to-back seasons, and their unlikability is the only reason UTR players have won the last three games.
I am bringing up Russell because the biggest difference between Russell and guys like Cesternino or Yul is they are likable and Russell is hated making him the opposite of a good player.

He has 2 votes of 18 possible FTC votes. I am almost have as many as him.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:18 PM   #5184
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by DAT MOOSE View Post

Regarding Yul:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:23 PM   #5185
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Soncy View Post
I sort of do think you can say Russell is good...in a way. I mean, you get more money the farther you go and there is always Fan Favorite $ to win as well. He has some great skills for the game.
$1,000,000 > ~$400,000

But yea he some skills in the game, but most important skill is being liked. I hope he isnt like that irl though
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:36 PM   #5186
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Quote:
Originally Posted by cash mahne View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


edit:

Spoiler:
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:50 PM   #5187
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I agree with Russell not having what it takes to win. It's like being the best MTT player but sucking at HU and then playing HU 500bb deep against a HU specialist. Russell will probably always get to the end but never finish first because in order to get there, he is screwing people over left and right.

I was a longtime Russell fan .. also thinking that he is the greatest player to ever play the game. But the fact is that you NEED votes to win. Strategy may help you get to the end, but it doesn't get you votes. On the other hand, you could just be laying on the beach all they long with no strategy whatsoever and somehow wind up winning because everybody thought you were so funny.

Being likable > being strategic in this game. If you have both, even better.
I can't really think of any winner who wasn't liked by most people on the jury .. or to put it in other words: who wasn't hated by most of them.

Yet I still enjoy watching Russell because he makes for great TV and awesome discussion with friends. That's probably the reason why CBS is bringing him back next season. It will be interesting to see if he changes anything...

Oh..and what's up with all the spoilers tags? Why do we need spoilers for seasons that have aired years ago? It's like putting a spoiler tag on every superbowl winner in the sports forum.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:06 PM   #5188
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I give some credit to Sandra for recognizing that the Heroes were such morons that the argument she made would appeal to them, but it's sad that such an argument could appeal to them in the first place.

re. strategists:
Spoiler:


EDIT: Spoiler tags because some people who have posted in the last page are rewatching various seasons and don't want them accidentally spoiled.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:41 PM   #5189
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by SavageTilt View Post
Spoiler:


Spoiler:
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:02 PM   #5190
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

all this ozzy/yul discussion is making me want to watch cook islands again at some point. yul was my favorite survivor ever at the time and ozzy was just so much fun to watch.

i remember really enjoying the challenges that season. and was that the season with the intense immunity idol clues/treks? i seem to remember ozzy and/or yul solving numerous clues and swimming between ****ing islands (in the single day that they were on exile island) to find the idol when everyone else couldn't even get past the first or second clue. i might be remembering that wrong, was that ozzy in fans v favorites?

plus it has parvati and candice as well, yum yum.

Last edited by dukemagic; 01-04-2011 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:04 PM   #5191
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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all this ozzy/yul discussion is making me want to watch cook islands again at some point. yul was my favorite survivor ever at the time and ozzy was just so much fun to watch.

plus it has parvati and candice as well, yum yum.

Cook Islands is probably my favorite non return season. Yul + Ozzy were ridiculous at the game, Parvati + Candice are fun to look at, and Kow Boi was the most ******* insane player I've seen (but in a good way)
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:31 PM   #5192
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Penner needs more love.
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:45 PM   #5193
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Spoiler:
It wasn't really an error since he knew he couldn't beat Danni anyway. Steph was hated by the jury, and Rafe was liked but not so much so that Danni backstabbing him would cause the jury to vote for her instead. He set up a situation where he wins the game in a blowout if either he or Steph wins the FIC. Danni had only won one IIC by that point (and even that was a non-physical challenge that she won thanks to an aid she bought in the auction) and was in terrible physical shape (she had reportedly been fainting frequently around camp); Rafe had won half of the IICs and he and Steph were both good in challenges. Look at the previous FICs and how they would have fared:

1,3,4,8: Hands on idol (Rafe/Steph)
2: Fallen Comrades (probably Danni)
5,7: Lower-body strength (Rafe/Steph)
6: Combined balance + upper-body strength (Rafe/Steph)
9: Upper-body strength (Rafe/Steph)
10: Endurance challenge (Rafe/Steph)

Obv. the Guatemala FIC turns out to be essentially a height-measuring contest and Danni wins ;/. His decision at F4 is debatable, and his play before that was flawless.
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:49 PM   #5194
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by dukemagic View Post
i remember really enjoying the challenges that season. and was that the season with the intense immunity idol clues/treks? i seem to remember ozzy and/or yul solving numerous clues and swimming between ****ing islands (in the single day that they were on exile island) to find the idol when everyone else couldn't even get past the first or second clue. i might be remembering that wrong, was that ozzy in fans v favorites?
That was FvF.

But Cook Islands is in my top 3 seasons, I really enjoy it every time I watch it.
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:46 AM   #5195
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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That was FvF.

But Cook Islands is in my top 3 seasons, I really enjoy it every time I watch it.
Cirie's "BACK across the ocean" confessional is one of my all-time favorites.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:09 AM   #5196
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

All people are named at least for S22.

Looks like 18 total players
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:16 AM   #5197
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

With the players named, it seems about time to start the new thread.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:23 AM   #5198
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Meh, I think it's best to wait until CBS puts up the cast bios + interviews. It's hard to get anything meaningful from a picture.

I'd be up for starting the S22 thread once that happens unless anyone desperately wants to do it.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:52 AM   #5199
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

My guess is at the PCA's Probst will announce something.

EDIT: That is later today 9 PM EST on CBS
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:56 AM   #5200
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Spoiler:
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