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Old 01-04-2011, 12:23 AM   #5151
Soncy
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield View Post
who is a better survivor winner fabio or sandra?

fabio is more likable and better at challenges and they both have the same strategy of anyone but me. But at this point in the game its bad to be overly likable and too skilled at challenges.
Sandra has built in post merge protection in not being as likable and not being good in challenges. Fabio has the ability to win out and control his destiny, but he most likely HAS to win out and control his destiny or he will be evicted. I'd feel a lot more comfortable being Sandra as she surely has more options available to her. She can just go on about how worthless and annoying she has been and that no one will want to vote for her to whomever wins the endgame challenges, then turn in a solid FTC and wait for the check. (Basically, using the same argument coming down the stretch on getting everyone but herself voted out.) Fabio, on the other hand, would have eveyone gunning for him and would have little to no wiggle room in surviving a home stretch TC without immunity hanging around his neck. (Guy like Fabio mgiht not even make it as far as he did if there is a Sandra or Cirie type in the game because those ladies will have him bulls-eyed much earlier.)
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:26 AM   #5152
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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According to post season interviews Brenda and Alina only voted for him b/c they were afraid no one else was going to.
A pity vote is a vote. He did something to earn a pity vote.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:15 AM   #5153
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Another unlikely winner:

Spoiler:
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:30 AM   #5154
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Another unlikely winner:

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:26 AM   #5155
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Listening to Cesternino's podcast. He said something along the lines of a F3 the votes are going to be more against people than a F2.

Pretty much people won't vote for someone (ala Russell) at a F3 because they have more options, but at a F2 they will vote for a more deserving winner.

Anyone agree with this?
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:29 AM   #5156
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield View Post
who is a better survivor winner fabio or sandra?

fabio is more likable and better at challenges and they both have the same strategy of anyone but me. But at this point in the game its bad to be overly likable and too skilled at challenges.
Sandra. Fabio didn't really make any move at all. Sandra at least was trying to make moves and when she couldn't she made sure she wasn't going home.

I still credit her for getting rid of Coach and Courtney, when it could of and maybe should of been her one of those times.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:31 AM   #5157
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Just wondering:

I've tended to stay away from these threads during the season due to a fear of spoilers, but would really like to participate in discussion and stuff with you guys as everyone seems pretty damn intelligent about the game. I had HvV ruined for me at the merge on a different forum with an actual boot list

I know spoiler posts get deleted, so can someone tell me if this season was ruined in here for anyone? Would I be able to chat about 22 with you all and not worry about spoilers etc?
I have been spoiled a little bit ITT. I know someone said somehting like "Jimmy Johnson is gone by week 3."

He was and that is the risk you take I guess, but for the most part it is fine.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:36 AM   #5158
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I am guessing that on Wednesday, Probst will announce the cast for S22? It is the PCA's and he did a similar thing last year.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:42 AM   #5159
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Sandra. Fabio didn't really make any move at all. Sandra at least was trying to make moves and when she couldn't she made sure she wasn't going home.

I still credit her for getting rid of Coach and Courtney, when it could of and maybe should of been her one of those times.
so basically she sucked too much to be a threat and thats why she won
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:51 AM   #5160
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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so basically she sucked too much to be a threat and thats why she won
Tough to make moves when you have numbers, but Candace flips and you no longer have numbers.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:47 AM   #5161
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Tough to make moves when you have numbers, but Candace flips and you no longer have numbers.
That's her fault for not controlling Candice. You can't credit Sandra for merely having intent to make a move but being too weak socially to pull it off. It still cracks me up that Candice hated Russell, yet he actually talked her out of a 5-4 advantage so she could sit 6th in his alliance. No matter how you break it down, that's either an amazing move by Russell or a spectacular failure from Sandra (or both).

My first instinct was to say Sandra is the better player, but I swear, her HvsV game gets worse every time I think about it. She completely backed into a win, as she basically said, "I tried making a bunch of moves, but I couldn't pull them off because Russell out-gamed me at every opportunity." She had absolutely no argument for why she was even in the FTC; nothing she tried worked, yet she still got there (because people brought her there). At least Fabio won his way there, and people actually voted FOR him instead of AGAINST the other people.

I guess I'd say Fabio played the better game, but Sandra is probably the better player. Neither of them are good, though.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:18 AM   #5162
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

her tribal council argument is interesting. it obviously sounds stupid to some of us. "i tried getting russel out, but he got there anyway." but that mightve been exactly what the heroes tribe wanted to hear. i dont really think sandra should get that much credit for coaches exit. it was def in russels best interest to get rid of him. He was going to switch tribes when they merged. he also didnt feel good about turning on rob. sandra did play good though to dodge a couple of those votes. i also think fabio knows what is going on in the tribe and will make moves. it just seemed like after week 1 he got froze out of the main alliance. he tried making moves with marty at some point but sash didnt come through. he also tried making alliances with chase
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:01 PM   #5163
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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i dont really think sandra should get that much credit for coaches exit. it was def in russels best interest to get rid of him.
So just because it was in Russell's interest to get rid of Coach he made the entire thing happen? If Sandra doesn't tell Russell that Coach wants him gone, Courtney is the one who is voted out.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:10 PM   #5164
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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That's her fault for not controlling Candice. You can't credit Sandra for merely having intent to make a move but being too weak socially to pull it off. It still cracks me up that Candice hated Russell, yet he actually talked her out of a 5-4 advantage so she could sit 6th in his alliance. No matter how you break it down, that's either an amazing move by Russell or a spectacular failure from Sandra (or both).

My first instinct was to say Sandra is the better player, but I swear, her HvsV game gets worse every time I think about it. She completely backed into a win, as she basically said, "I tried making a bunch of moves, but I couldn't pull them off because Russell out-gamed me at every opportunity." She had absolutely no argument for why she was even in the FTC; nothing she tried worked, yet she still got there (because people brought her there). At least Fabio won his way there, and people actually voted FOR him instead of AGAINST the other people.

I guess I'd say Fabio played the better game, but Sandra is probably the better player. Neither of them are good, though.
UTR strategy works. The last 3 winners seemed to have little game to them. Russell's strategy has failed him twice. It isn't about who can dominate the game and vote everyone out. Its about making it to the end and getting votes.

That said, I enjoy watching Russell play more than Sandra, but if you win the game twice your doing something right, or your not doing something wrong.

Sash wasn't winning because of the speculation that he was going to pay off Jane's mortgage so if it comes down to making the better actual moves, Chase should of won, no matter how dumb and paranoid he seemed. BTW, I think that if Chase would of won, he would of gotten a much different edit.

I really loved Fabio compared to anyone else, and wanted him to win. But compared to Sandra, he didn't do much. Either way, you need the final 2 instead of a final 3.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:13 PM   #5165
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by cash mahne View Post
So just because it was in Russell's interest to get rid of Coach he made the entire thing happen? If Sandra doesn't tell Russell that Coach wants him gone, Courtney is the one who is voted out.
na i didnt say that.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:16 PM   #5166
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

lol at chase shouldve won. the guy was a moron. the jury voted against him because he was stupid. even someone who gave him a idol because hes a nice guy didnt vote for him.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:43 PM   #5167
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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That's her fault for not controlling Candice. You can't credit Sandra for merely having intent to make a move but being too weak socially to pull it off. It still cracks me up that Candice hated Russell, yet he actually talked her out of a 5-4 advantage so she could sit 6th in his alliance. No matter how you break it down, that's either an amazing move by Russell or a spectacular failure from Sandra (or both).

My first instinct was to say Sandra is the better player, but I swear, her HvsV game gets worse every time I think about it. She completely backed into a win, as she basically said, "I tried making a bunch of moves, but I couldn't pull them off because Russell out-gamed me at every opportunity." She had absolutely no argument for why she was even in the FTC; nothing she tried worked, yet she still got there (because people brought her there). At least Fabio won his way there, and people actually voted FOR him instead of AGAINST the other people.

I guess I'd say Fabio played the better game, but Sandra is probably the better player. Neither of them are good, though.
Thing is, the style they play is more suited to Sandra than Fabio. Obviously, they both had success with it, but I like that type of game for Sandra than Fabs. A super nice guy who is a challenge threat should be targeted unless he has some sort of base of control in the game (as JT or even Chase). So I don't like the clueless float along style for a guy like Fabio... Having said that, it worked, so {shrug}.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:08 PM   #5168
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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UTR strategy works. The last 3 winners seemed to have little game to them. Russell's strategy has failed him twice. It isn't about who can dominate the game and vote everyone out. Its about making it to the end and getting votes.

That said, I enjoy watching Russell play more than Sandra, but if you win the game twice your doing something right, or your not doing something wrong.

Sash wasn't winning because of the speculation that he was going to pay off Jane's mortgage so if it comes down to making the better actual moves, Chase should of won, no matter how dumb and paranoid he seemed. BTW, I think that if Chase would of won, he would of gotten a much different edit.

I really loved Fabio compared to anyone else, and wanted him to win. But compared to Sandra, he didn't do much. Either way, you need the final 2 instead of a final 3.
This post belongs in the punctuation thread. That said, I agree with everything in the post.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:49 PM   #5169
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Sandra had an interesting argument to present to the heroes. Basically: "if you had listened to me, you would have stayed in this game a lot longer." Remember how the villains kept talking about how big the heroes' egos were? Well in a way, by casting a vote for Sandra, the heroes are voting for themselves to go farther in the game.

I mean, I really don't understand how some of the heroes didn't vote Parvati, they were even trying to get her out before the merge!!
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:01 PM   #5170
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I mean, I really don't understand how some of the heroes didn't vote Parvati, they were even trying to get her out before the merge!!
The vote in HvV was awful. I understood the logic for not voting for Russel even though I disagree with it. Not voting for Parvati once you decided no to Russel was just absurd.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:21 PM   #5171
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

The heroes voting for Parvati would require them to admit to themselves that even knowing how big a threat she was, they couldn't get her out, and that she's obviously better at Survivor than they are. They can't do that, it's terrible for their egos. It also validates Russel's game to some degree, and they can't do that because they hated him.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:54 PM   #5172
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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UTR strategy works. The last 3 winners seemed to have little game to them. Russell's strategy has failed him twice. It isn't about who can dominate the game and vote everyone out. Its about making it to the end and getting votes.
Just because 15 people try to play UTR every year doesn't mean it's "successful" because one of them wins due to receiving all of the anti-votes for the other people. And Russell's strategy has not failed him...Russell's personality has failed him. Big difference.

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The heroes voting for Parvati would require them to admit to themselves that even knowing how big a threat she was, they couldn't get her out, and that she's obviously better at Survivor than they are. They can't do that, it's terrible for their egos. It also validates Russel's game to some degree, and they can't do that because they hated him.
Bingo.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:01 PM   #5173
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Just because 15 people try to play UTR every year doesn't mean it's "successful" because one of them wins due to receiving all of the anti-votes for the other people. And Russell's strategy has not failed him...Russell's personality has failed him. Big difference.
Unless Russell changes the way he plays the game, he isn't a good player. If you have no chance to win, your not good. It's that simple. I think he will change his game in 22. If he doesn't he is just lol as a person.

And are you saying he is just a douche and bad person? If his true personality is being an *******, good for him.

The guy is fun to watch from the moves he makes. He cuts good confessionals (the only person who can successfully refer to himself in third people).

I think your very successful in taking anti votes and winning $1,000,000, I just don't like that people play that way.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:52 PM   #5174
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

My point is that you, like many others, appear to be making the sweeping statement of, "Strategists can't win anymore because of the changes we've seen in the last three seasons." Of course, there have only been two strategists to lose in those three years, and they're both douchey. The game hasn't changed to where UTR is suddenly the way to go, CBS just happened to cast two unlikable strategists back-to-back.

In other words, the reason Russell and Sash lost isn't because they were strategists, it's because they were unlikable. If you stick a Yau-Man or a Cesternino out there in S22, and they play a strategic game, they're going to win vs. any UTR player you put up against them. The only way you win playing UTR is if you are sitting next to a Russell or a Sash.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:12 PM   #5175
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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The vote in HvV was awful. I understood the logic for not voting for Russel even though I disagree with it. Not voting for Parvati once you decided no to Russel was just absurd.
Except you have that backwards. Voting for Parv should have been first choice for everyone. They have to find a back up plan after rejecting HER. She killed.

Also, if not voting for Russell is understandable (even tho disagreed with), then not voting for Parv should be likewise understandable. She had too much of his stink on her. A vote for Parv waws too close to Russell for them. Their thinking was surely more along the lines of, I hate this guy and the Parv he rode in with; he doesn't even like Sandra, I think I'll vote for her as an extra gouge.
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