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Old 12-20-2010, 12:28 PM   #4851
kartinken
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Cardfish1 View Post
There has never been a season where a disliked but strategic player has won over a likable player. And I might add, that's the way it should be.
It likely would have happened in the Pearl Islands, though it's tough to say how disliked JFP actually was.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:35 PM   #4852
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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How does that make her a hypocrite? If anything, it makes her a good juror. Yes, Chase was the worst of the three candidates, but at least she didn't vote emotionally.
Why does voting emotionally make one a bad juror?
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:40 PM   #4853
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Why does voting emotionally make one a bad juror?
Kos feels like juries should be objective. I don't think there's anything wrong with objectivity, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with emotion.

It's not the jury's responsibility to cave to the whims of anyone.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:57 PM   #4854
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

All young women vote for chase. All men vote for fabio. All old people vote for fabio.

EDIT just looked back in thread and see this may no longer be true.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:19 PM   #4855
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Kos feels like juries should be objective. I don't think there's anything wrong with objectivity, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with emotion.

It's not the jury's responsibility to cave to the whims of anyone.
Exactly. I don't think Kos understands the game at all.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:19 PM   #4856
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

After watching the final episodes here are my thoughts of these episodes and the season in general:

Nice misleading editing in the Holly tribal council. I did not see that one coming, nevertheless, from a strategic point of view it made sense.

Were they really threatened that much by Dan ??
I still don't get it, how can you NOT take him to the FTC. It's strange, the didn't even do any "woulda - coulda - shoulda" scenarios for different final contestants. I was really curious who would've voted for Dan or Holly.

Even though the FTC was pretty amusing, I think the jury should've asked more questions to all contestants. Don't just tell us who you vote for, it's TV damn it, make your statements at least a little bit ambiguous.

Furthermore, I had a feeling like all of them already made up their mind before the FTC even started so the sole purpose of the cross examination was to humiliate the ones who they didn't want to vote for - I didn't like that, however, some of the hateful comments were pretty entertaining especially Dan

Chase did a really good job to sell his mediocre at best game play to the jury. Until he denied Marty's question and then started an open discussion with Sash he was on a really good path. But then Fabio's tears totally made an impact to switch the momentum back to Fabio.

The last challenges totally sucked. Untying nods, running a few yards and completing an easy puzzle. After 20 seasons of Survivor that's the best you can come up with? I mean REALLY ???
The sword/coin thing didn't really create a lot of tension.

No Survivor auction? I always loved these. I was really disappointed that the didn't include one this season.

Maybe they should make the reunion show just slightly longer. I would've loved to hear more from Benry, Tyrone or even Dan.

The editing this season was weird. I can't really put my finger on why but I assume it's because the tried to generate drama where no drama actually happened.
Most confessionals where pretty awful this season. We don't need those where they start listing people who they believe to be in their alliance. Those people never really "shared" I believe, well, except NaOnka who most def shared every single word that went through here head at the time.

Moreover, they didn't show enough of the camp life. It seams like they did nothing all day in camp. In past seasons we had great fishing trips, people trying new food resources, people getting drunk at camp and celebrating, people telling great stories from their life (or lie about it) or jokes. Instead they showed us lot of "strategy" talk by players who pretty much had no clue about the game.
We were never shown how these people connected and who was close with whom.

This season was the first season I watched while it aired on TV, all the others I pretty much watched all episodes in like a few days, so it's hard to compare it to the others for me. It's definitely more intense this way because you have more time to think about what's going on over the week instead of just watching the next episode right away.


My thoughts on the next season: I don't hate the idea but there IS a chance that this will backfire. They do need good heads up challenges and great characters for this to work. Furthermore, I don't see many scenarios how a voted out player could come back in to the game and really have a chance of winning, even with a single immunity for the next tribal he'll never be more than a swing vote. Only if a player was voted out late in the game and could come back with at least part of his alliance intact, he/she might have a slight chance. But even then how do you justify in the FTC that you should win?
I think it'll insert some drama but it's not a game change and may take time away from the things that do matter in the game.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:26 PM   #4857
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I like the guy, but Fabio shouldn't have won imo.
Just couldn't vote for someone who was so oblivious to everything going on.

Considering his coasting strategy, things played out relatively good for him post-merge with power players being targetted early + 2 players not in his alliance quitting at f9.
That presented him, Benry and Dan a perfect opportunity to swing Sash over, but nobody seemed to really put in the effort to offer him deals and make him feel comfortable.
It's hard to tell if it really was that obvious, but from the editing it didn't seem like Holly, Jane and Chase really bothered hiding their obvious alliance.
ffs Chase picking Holly and Jane for the reward gave them such a slam dunk to swing Sash over and they blew it.

same goes for f11, 6 and 5 really. he should have tried harder to get himself into a great position moving forward at f11 by backing Marty in his attempts to vote out Jane and after that perhaps the whole foursome (Jane, Holly, Chase, Naonka).
It's not very likely he would have succeeded, but he would have improved his position by like 800% if him, Benry, Dan, Marty, Brenda, Sash and Kelly all voted together.

final 6 they apparently bought into Sash's promises to take them further while Fabio would have always been the next one to go if he doesn't win immunity. They should have at least tried to force a tie between Jane and Holly.
Jane would most likely win a head-to-head challenge and the game could play out very differently with Jane betrayed by her alliance.
Chase->Jane next two boots in some order would have been realtively likely, which would be a 100% win for Fabio at f3.

final 5 he absolutely should have convinced Sash to vote out Holly.
Then he'd probably at least reach a tie-breaker @f4 if he doesn't win immunity.
Dan knows he couldn't win the game, so he'd probably rather see Fabio win than one of the other two he apparently hates so much.
Instead Sash votes out Dan, the only person left he would probably beat?


as played he would have been voted out without question all of the last three tribals without immunity. obviously stepping up and winning challenges when needed should be considered for the vote, but it shouldn't just schine over others who played the game well strategically (Holly especially, but both of the other two f3ers outplayed him in the strategy part).

Problem is neither of the other two played a good enough overall game to really be bothered by him winning.
Even though Chase was very good at FTC and probably would have gotten my vote.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #4858
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Is there any info on where the spoilers came from? In order for them to get the final 3 don't they have to come from an inside source on the show? There can't be (or at least shouldn't be) more than a handful of people with that info.


P.S. Ban Little King
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:44 PM   #4859
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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i think im going
chase d
jud
matt
marty
yve

thoughts?
I ****ed raped my Survivor pool. Absolutely dominated.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:52 PM   #4860
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Sash is not even in Russel's league when it comes to gameplay.

Congrats buddy, you can get a majority pre-merge and lucksack that into a majority in your new tribe after a tribe switch.

Congrats buddy, you can get gifted the position of swing vote at F7.

Congrats buddy, you can go to F6 with at least 2 people who are perceived (and probably actually) bigger jury threats than you.

It's not like he did anything spectacular this season. The swing vote at F7 almost always has to make promises to everybody because that's the position they're in. He then aligned himself with 2 people who were very unlikely to turn on each other and turned against the biggest jury threat in the game.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:06 PM   #4861
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Those ranking are ok. His top 5 is close to the 5 best seasons. His bottom and middle are a little weird though.

-Season 1 definitely has to be in top 5. It doesn't "hold" up that well but there was tons of entertainment value in it and a mastermind.

-Palau should be way down on the list. There's like 2-3 episodes that were even remotely interesting.

-Australia is too high as well. Complete snoozefest mixed with annoying Jerri.

-Fiji should be higher. I never understood all the hate on this season. There's a few really good blindsides, a deserving winner, and Yau Man.

-Gabon, Guatemala, Palau, Australia, and Thailand are my bottom 5. As bad as some people make this season out to be it's far more interesting than the one's in my bottom 5. I'd love for someone to make a decent argument for any of those 5 being better than this season
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:21 PM   #4862
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Agreed on Guatemala, even though I <3 Rafe. I think there are good arguments to be made for Australia, although I think it's fairly boring. Gabon is very entertaining; the fact that it's a complete cluster**** made it poor strategically but still hilarious. I'm not sure how you can put Palau in the bottom 5: a good winner, interesting characters, Steph & Bobby Jon etc.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:30 PM   #4863
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I'm trying very hard not to directly respond to anyone's posts in the aftermath of last night's finale, out of fear of sparking a flame war when I need to be finishing up my 2010 grind.

So here's my ranking of seasons

1. Pearl Islands
2. Amazon
3. Vanuatu
4. Micronesia
5. China
6. Guatemala
7. Exile Island
8. Gabon
9. Borneo
10. HvV
11. Samoa
12. All-Stars
13. Cook Islands
14. Nicaragua
15. Marquesas
16. Palau
17. Thailand
18. Fiji
19. Africa
20. Tocantins
21. Australia


I think it's awesome when people say they wish it'd go back to "classic Survivor". 16 people! No swaps! Merge at 10! What happens when you do that? You get Australia. What happens when you do that and add in an exile "island"? Tocantins.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:33 PM   #4864
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Agreed on Guatemala
[snip]
I'm not sure how you can put Palau in the bottom 5: a good winner, interesting characters, Steph & Bobby Jon etc.
So Palau doesn't suck because it has interesting characters and Steph and Bobby Jon. But you hate Guatemala?
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:47 PM   #4865
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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As far as impressions for this season go, I have to express my disappointment. How these idiots did not pick sash as sole survivor is absolutely astounding and speaks to the overall "donk logic" that is prevalent in today's society.


The majority of jurors based their decision on who to vote for on their emotions, without any emphasis on who they thought played the game the best. Marty felt betrayed by Sash so there was no chance he would get his vote despite his acknowledgement of Sash's strategic dominance. He then chose Fabio as a lesser of two evils compared with Chase who he said "got the award for biggest toolbox ever on Survivor". Alina didn't feel like she could vote for a "boy" like Fabio, and she didn't feel at all attracted to the weasely Sash relative to chase who she said "impressed her" (aka made her wet). Brenda felt betrayed by Sash, similar to Marty, and, in the end, chose Chase because it seemed she was more attracted to him (he told her how much he blindly trusted her throughout the game) compared to the boyish/asexual Fabio. Naonka chose Chase because he was her "big brother" who helped her push on through the cold of the rain in the middle stages of the game. Dan felt disgusted and offended by the backstabbing nature of Sash and Chase, leaving Fabio as his choice. Holly is a dimwit whose choice seemed based on who was the most honest person (thus she must have chosen between chase and Fabio). Based on the jury's interviews at the final tribal council, one can only conclude they did not base their choices on who was the most strategic player, but on who didn't backstab them (for the men) or who seemed the most attractive, aka best bearer of children for the women.



All considered, this season has been a huge let down for me. Sash was clearly the most strategic player in the game--a game where the objectives are to "outlast, outwit, and outplay"--and his vote total of zero is a troubling indictment of logic and an example (although not representative "lol sample size") of emotions>>>>>reason/logic that is at least prevalent to some extent in our society. I can only hope that in future seasons we might run better with competitors who think best competitor >> emotional pick. It sure will make it more exciting (and at least possible) to try and predict the players next moves in forthcoming stages (giving everyone an equal chance was probably a better means of predicting compared to sound logical reasoning in this season).


cliffs:
-jury made emotional decisions when picking sole survivor rather than choosing the best strategist.
-hopefully we run better and get more logical competitors next season so we can have better succes in predicting their future decisions.

the game has changed to where jurors now respect the person who can figure out a way to the end without offending anyone. sash did a horrible job as he told as many lies as possilble. he was also very see through with his lies. fabio, benry, dan, brenda, holly etc etc could all see right through him. he was only kept in the game due to being really easy to read. he didnt even have real control going into the last few votes if people viewed him as a real threat.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:54 PM   #4866
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Grunching finale, just a couple of things:
(1) It will be too soon if I never hear the word "threat" again on Survivor. Starting from next season, I think the word should be bleeped out.
(2) When Jeff revealed the 4th vote for Chase, I did the world's biggest [rolleyes] at the obv win - nice job, editors
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:59 PM   #4867
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Cardfish1 View Post
Is there any info on where the spoilers came from? In order for them to get the final 3 don't they have to come from an inside source on the show? There can't be (or at least shouldn't be) more than a handful of people with that info.


P.S. Ban Little King
Half way through the finale (once the final 3 were decided) I googled survivor 21 final 3. There was a youtube video back from mid october detailing the winners of the show and elimination order. It looked like it was almost perfect. So unless it was some sort of hoax it looked pretty real.

http://www.realitytvspoilers.net/200...t-final-3.html
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:01 PM   #4868
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I know this isn't the sort of thing this thread cares about, but I thought it was a really nice gesture for Holly to get those boots for Dan.
agree. she handled it well. i think it might have been her downfall though if she made it to the end.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:02 PM   #4869
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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PK, Tyrone, Benry, and Jill got no time at all. Don't care about PK, but pretty messed up about the other 3, imo.
yeah really annoying. i think it was the worst reunion ever.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:05 PM   #4870
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

1. Pearl Islands
2. Micronesia
3. China
4. Borneo
5. Cook Islands
6. HvV
7. All-Stars
8. Amazon
9. Tocantins
10. Samoa
11. Guatemala
12. Marquesas
13. Gabon
14. Exile Island
15. Palau
16. Nicaragua
17. Australia
(not seen yet) Vanuatu, Thailand, Fiji, Africa

Apart from the outcast twist I loved Pearl Islands. Great characters, great challenges, and a nice island setting. Started with a bang and a great twist and had many in it for me to get hooked by this show. It was the third season I've watched.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:05 PM   #4871
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

so i guess in hindsight sash shouldve voted out chase at final 5?
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:21 PM   #4872
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

cbs updated with some clips. hopefully i can find the final voting.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:23 PM   #4873
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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"2, maybe 3 men"

Alina is awesome. Lol.
She better be careful before killa reports her comment to Dids for an infraction!
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:26 PM   #4874
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Ok, I can guess.

5. Fabio
4. Dan
Final Tribal, Holly wins 6-3-1, Chase getting 1.

* If Fabio wins 2 immunity in a row this prediction fails and he wins the game.
Just wanted to say my prediction from Friday was correct.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:31 PM   #4875
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

kelly purple, dan, marty, benry, holly for fabio is what happened i think.

alina, brenda, naonka, jane for chase.


if there is a all star season. i think potentials for this season are fabio, alina, marty, brenda and holly.
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