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Old 11-11-2010, 11:18 AM   #2876
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Loss Tee View Post
I agreed with this. So I went and read spoilers. Now I'm excited to watch the rest of the season.

I'll leave it at that.
PM spoilers cause I don't care at this point.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:26 AM   #2877
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Kart: How is Brenda better than Sash? She's probably second, but Sash is leagues above everybody. For example, telling Marty that it was Holly that wrote his name down, when Sash knows (and Marty should clearly have known, I mean wtf Marty) that it wasn't was brilliant. As has been mentioned, the only possible way anything could go wrong was for the girls + Marty/Fabio/Benry to team up. That was already unlikely, but turning Marty against Holly made that impossible.
Brenda wanted to boot Marty as soon as he handed over the idol. Sash wanted to keep his word. This was before the jury had started. I think Brenda is tighter with the rest of the alliance than Sash is. I think Brenda has set up the game better to boot Sash than vice versa. I could be wrong, it's hard to tell, as Boc will surely remind us, but that's the feel I get.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:30 AM   #2878
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Loss Tee View Post
I agreed with this. So I went and read spoilers. Now I'm excited to watch the rest of the season.

I'll leave it at that.
why make posts like this? Yeah dude you're really cool for reading spoilers and posting thinly vieled hints.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:34 AM   #2879
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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why make posts like this? Yeah dude you're really cool for reading spoilers and posting thinly vieled hints.
Why quote posts like that? I missed it the first time through
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:49 AM   #2880
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

They're too unbelievable to be true anyway.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:10 PM   #2881
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

No spoilers of any sort itt please people. Even vaguely hinting at stuff is out of line.

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Originally Posted by kartinken View Post
Brenda wanted to boot Marty as soon as he handed over the idol. Sash wanted to keep his word. This was before the jury had started. I think Brenda is tighter with the rest of the alliance than Sash is. I think Brenda has set up the game better to boot Sash than vice versa. I could be wrong, it's hard to tell, as Boc will surely remind us, but that's the feel I get.
Why is that a bad thing? By keeping Marty - which Brenda agreed to - Sash gains an ally in case Marty stays around and a jury vote in case he doesn't. Brenda is probably tighter with NaOnka (although this is unclear, since Sash formed the original alliance and was the one to talk to her most last week), Kelly, Chase, and Jane. Holly seems to be in the middle, but perhaps slightly leaning towards Brenda. Sash is closer to Fabio, Benry, Dan. That's either 6-4 or 5-5, and Sash's idol gives him a lot of security. Also, from Brenda's confessionals it appears she intends to take Sash to the end, whereas Sash seems open to the idea of booting Brenda if need be.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:40 PM   #2882
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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These people are all idiots. All of them. How do you let Brenda and Sash, the two biggest power players, wedge themselves in between two alliances? How does pretty much every single player screw up the reward challenge strategy-wise? How are Benry and Fabio dumb enough to split off into their own, smaller alliance without a majority? Why does Brenda think it's smart to basically say, "Yeah, there is zero chance I take Jane to the end!" when she's in her ****ing alliance?!?!?!

This is like watching third graders play Survivor. At this point, if anyone but Sash wins, I'll be disappointed (purely from a fan-of-the-game POV). He's made a few mistakes, but they pale in comparison to the collective terribleness of everyone else.

EDIT: And Jane is unbearable. She's "hidden" somewhat because NaOnka is HOF-level crazy, but I want to punch Jane in the face. I HATE when people use the "I hope the good people prevail" line, especially since the person saying that is almost always a bad person (and a horrible player, but that goes without saying).
wow

guess what, you're the idiot
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:42 PM   #2883
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

People posting spoilers will be ban until the seasons over with out question
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:04 PM   #2884
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Where to start? I think I'll go with the untraditional, in the middle. Re the bolded: I'm a little surprised that you've lasted this long as a fan of the game given the requirements that you have for enjoyment. It's pretty standard for any random season to be populated with maybe one guy who plays the game in a way you can respect. Then, from a shear numbers perspective it's hard for that guy to overcome the masses and win. His task is made that much more difficult when he's either an @$$hole or he does a very good impersonation of one. And, no offense, but you seem to be drawn to players who are widely percieved as jerks (which might not be a big deal if they didn't have to win votes from the people they play with, but they do.) So all of these obstacles keep piling up for your guy, and you have a hard time enjoying the season if your guy doesn't take the win. Seems like a recipe for constant frustration.

Now back to the beginning. During China, pretty much the whole time, I was thinking, "Todd is going to win this unless they vote him out." So, as the game wound down, every week I found myself thinking, "Okay, they are going to vote Todd out now... Now... Now..." but it never happened, and Todd won. I admit, I'm having some deja vu, EXCEPT Brenda is no Amanda so I'm hoping things might be a little more interesting this time around. Anyway, the moral of this story is that it's fairly standard for Survivors--even grown up non-third-grade Survivors--to NOT do what is in their best interests. It's generally because they don't know what their best interests are until it's too late. But it's standard. What show have you been watching all these years?

Re Brenda's comments about Jane vs. Naonka: I'd have to call BS if Brenda tried to say that taking Jane to the end sounded more attractive to your average bear than taking Naonka. What Brenda said makes perfect theoretical sense. The question was a trip wire. I thought she handled it okay. If I was going to put someone on edge about my loyalty to her, I'd certainly rather it be Jane (because Marty has a point and everyone surely knows it) than Naonka (who is crazy and has an immunity idol). Besides, it was okay for Brenda the same way it was okay for Marty, and Brenda was much more diplomatic about it. Brenda needs someone to be a target other than herself and Sash. Why not Jane? 'She will win the vote.' Why not Benry and Fabio and Chase? 'They might win IICs.' This stage is all about throwing other people under the bus.
When you watch the edited, televised version of this show, it's like watching poker with hole card cameras.

You know those idiots who watch poker final tables and scream "NOOOOOOOOOO YOU IDIOT DON'T GO ALL IN WITH JACKS HE OBVIOUSLY HAS ACES! LOOK AT HIM IT'S SO OBVIOUS! HOW DO THESE DONKEYS MAKE FINAL TABLES I'D DO SO MUCH BETTER"? That's Kos.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:12 PM   #2885
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Soncy View Post
Where to start? I think I'll go with the untraditional, in the middle. Re the bolded: I'm a little surprised that you've lasted this long as a fan of the game given the requirements that you have for enjoyment. It's pretty standard for any random season to be populated with maybe one guy who plays the game in a way you can respect. Then, from a shear numbers perspective it's hard for that guy to overcome the masses and win. His task is made that much more difficult when he's either an @$$hole or he does a very good impersonation of one. And, no offense, but you seem to be drawn to players who are widely percieved as jerks (which might not be a big deal if they didn't have to win votes from the people they play with, but they do.) So all of these obstacles keep piling up for your guy, and you have a hard time enjoying the season if your guy doesn't take the win. Seems like a recipe for constant frustration.
I like jerks? Not really. I just like "villains," which is usually synonymous with "good, deceitful, smart players." I like people who make strategic decisions as opposed to just floating along. Yes, some of those people are Russell, Fairplay, and Boston Rob, but most of them are likable: Cesternino, Yau-Man, Cirie, Stephen, Chris, Yul, etc.

My problem as a fan is that there's no one who is even playing, which is different than a lot of seasons. In an average season, most players are bad, but they're at least TRYING to occasionally make moves, even if they're dumb ones. There are ten people left, and I struggled to even pick a #3 in my power rankings because I just feel that the bottom eight are all passive, bad players. I hope I'm wrong, but Benry is the only person I can see leading a revolt against Sash and Brenda, and he played about as awful as humanly possible this week, so I think he's probably gone next week.

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Anyone else getting annoyed with Probst? I really didn't like his comments about Naonka tonight, specifically the ones along the lines of "I can't believe you're still in the game. Someone must want to bring you along to final 3". He seems to be directly meddling in the game with such questions instead of being a (somewhat) disinterested host/observer.
He always meddles, which is good. He doesn't watch footage during the game, so he only goes by what he sees at challenges and tribals. I like that he calls people out, as I think it adds another dimension to the game: you have to hide your BS from him, too.

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Kos: I don't get how anybody messed up the reward challenge. Firstly, Sash and Brenda, the two most important players. are on opposite teams, so everyone is going to be able to ingratiate themselves with one of them no matter what. The only reason you might want to swap with one of the losers is to get yourself in their good graces, but that's such a transparent ploy that any gain from it is going to be outweighed by the suspicion that everybody (particularly those that you didn't pick on the losing team) is going to feel towards you because of it. The only way switching is optimal is if everybody else is switching as well, which obviously is never going to happen.
Sash and Brenda definitely need to be on opposite teams to keep things in line. However, my opinion is that you should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be back at camp. Don't win reward challenges because they are there for one reason: to switch up alliances. They always take less than 50% of the remaining players on reward, so the people back at camp are always in a majority if they want it. Sure enough, Benry, Fabio, and Dan joined up with Marty. Dan had nothing to gain, but Benry and Fabio should have given up their spots and tried to gather up troops back at camp. They can get Marty and Dan without doing anything, so their focus should have been on getting two more players: Holly and Purple Kelly. Also, once they give up their spots, Marty should probably give up his.

Chase actually made the right decision going with the girls, as they were a huge dog to win the challenge. The point of rewards isn't to eat, it's to get the losers pissed off.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:19 PM   #2886
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Kos13 View Post
He always meddles, which is good. He doesn't watch footage during the game, so he only goes by what he sees at challenges and tribals. I like that he calls people out, as I think it adds another dimension to the game: you have to hide your BS from him, too.



Chase actually made the right decision going with the girls, as they were a huge dog to win the challenge. The point of rewards isn't to eat, it's to get the losers pissed off.
he has favorites though. doesnt call everyone out. also chase would be with the majority regardless of which side he choose. thought it was real dumb to choose the girls. especially with how he said it. if i was one of the girls id be annoyed at him. "surprisingly i will go with the girls"
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:24 PM   #2887
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by HobbyHorse View Post
Anyone else getting annoyed with Probst? I really didn't like his comments about Naonka tonight, specifically the ones along the lines of "I can't believe you're still in the game. Someone must want to bring you along to final 3". He seems to be directly meddling in the game with such questions instead of being a (somewhat) disinterested host/observer.
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yeah i agree, i think he is def going too far this season
Ahh, a Survivor tradition like no other...People complaining about Probst meddling in the game.

He's asked the same loaded questions since the early seasons, and people have complained about it on internet forums since the early seasons. He's making compelling television, and probably asking all of the contestants loaded questions. Plus, the "integrity of the game" is not really something that Burnett/Probst/CBS worries about. Nor should they, really.

Anyone else not think the "men vs women" challenge was not really randomly selected? I'm no probability expert, but I think the odds of 5 men vs 5 women happening has to be somewhere like 1 in the tens of thousands?
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:27 PM   #2888
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

it was 100 percent random imo
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:28 PM   #2889
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Chase might be with the majority if he picks the guys, but he's better off losing the reward. When you're starving, people bond over not having food, especially when 5/11 of the other people just ate a feast. Chase should want to lose so his bond with the women can grow tighter. This only works if the players are dumb, but...they are. Brenda was the only one who didn't have tons of respect for Chase picking them.

Survivor is weird in that people will not randomly pick allies. However, because of this, they are willing to split based on the most random, pointless things. Most of the time, people split based on age, gender, likability, etc. Sometimes, though, it's way less obvious. People will occasionally make alliances based on something that, in the grand scheme of things, couldn't possibly matter any less in Survivor. Stuff like who lost a reward challenge, who hasn't won immunity yet, where you live in the country (stupid LA alliances from the recruited players), or as we've seen this season, who is a minority are all reasons for people to split...even though they shouldn't be. People will split based on pretty much anything, which is why it's going to be correct 99% of the time to lose a reward challenge.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:35 PM   #2890
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Don't win reward challenges because they are there for one reason: to switch up alliances. They always take less than 50% of the remaining players on reward, so the people back at camp are always in a majority if they want it. Sure enough, Benry, Fabio, and Dan joined up with Marty. Dan had nothing to gain, but Benry and Fabio should have given up their spots and tried to gather up troops back at camp. They can get Marty and Dan without doing anything, so their focus should have been on getting two more players: Holly and Purple Kelly. Also, once they give up their spots, Marty should probably give up his.

Chase actually made the right decision going with the girls, as they were a huge dog to win the challenge. The point of rewards isn't to eat, it's to get the losers pissed off.
For the bolded...You can say that from your armchair all you want. But people get hungry for rewards. People that you probably classify as "great players" have fallen for the temptation of eating instead of playing for immunity. None of the men were rushing to hand over their reward spot in order to stay in the majority back at camp. They're humans. And I still don't know if you recognize that.

As for the second part about Chase. I'm not sure if you're actually dense enough to not realize this... But Chase would have been in the majority group no matter which group he backed. It was an enviable spot to be in. (edit: VarianceMinefield beat me to this and you've already addressed it)
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:37 PM   #2891
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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he has favorites though. doesnt call everyone out.
Or maybe, just maybe, he calls most everyone out, but is only ever shown on TV calling out people when the edit supports it.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:50 PM   #2892
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Or maybe, just maybe, he calls most everyone out, but is only ever shown on TV calling out people when the edit supports it.
sure its possible but im pretty sure he has favorites who he try to help out and people who he dont like he goes at much harder. do you disagree?
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:03 PM   #2893
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Can mods ban those that even hinted at spoilers?
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:04 PM   #2894
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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WTF was Brenda thinking talking to Chase like that. I get that he's a pussy and probably won't ever vote against her but it seemed like she was begging him to switch sides or self destruct.

The Marty move was absolutely the correct move for Brenda and Sash. Marty had Fabs, Benry, and Dan. If they take out Jane then Holly might've jumped ship in order to save herself. Plus, not voting out Marty would've alienated Chase, Naonka, and KP.

We need a blindside soon. If Sash or Brenda get knocked out before final 4 then this season will be at least semi bearable.
The Brenda Chase dynamic is somewhat interesting. Even Naonka was counseling Chase not to annoy Brenda with his paranoia like she knew that was exactly what he was going to do. And he did. Sometimes people have a hard time holding their irritation in check. That a third party was able to predict (according to the edit) the exact interaction that transpired is probably pretty telling on how that relationship has been going.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:11 PM   #2895
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I thought each of the last 3 weeks before this one, Marty would of been the smart choice to vote off, but this week I think he shouldn't of been, but that might be me just thinking way to far down the road
I thought he was the right vote off. He was playing. If he wasn't so distracted by his feud with Jane, he might have actually figured out who the real threats were and mustered a counter alliance. If Marty wasn't the right vote off, it would have had to be taking Benry or Fabio away from him by voting one them out. But that might have sent Jane and Co. over the edge and caused her to rogue out on them.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:16 PM   #2896
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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sure its possible but im pretty sure he has favorites who he try to help out and people who he dont like he goes at much harder. do you disagree?
Yeah, I think you just have some confirmation bias going on. But whatever, you could be right.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:17 PM   #2897
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

What a horrible season. What's left is someone like Holly or Purple Kelly winning for it to be the worst season ever.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:18 PM   #2898
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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No spoilers of any sort itt please people. Even vaguely hinting at stuff is out of line.



Why is that a bad thing? By keeping Marty - which Brenda agreed to - Sash gains an ally in case Marty stays around and a jury vote in case he doesn't. Brenda is probably tighter with NaOnka (although this is unclear, since Sash formed the original alliance and was the one to talk to her most last week), Kelly, Chase, and Jane. Holly seems to be in the middle, but perhaps slightly leaning towards Brenda. Sash is closer to Fabio, Benry, Dan. That's either 6-4 or 5-5, and Sash's idol gives him a lot of security. Also, from Brenda's confessionals it appears she intends to take Sash to the end, whereas Sash seems open to the idea of booting Brenda if need be.
You want Sash to jump out of an alliance he controls into an alliance Marty controls. You are a loon. Any of you people that would say Marty is such a good player, but they should keep him, need to check your thought processes.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:24 PM   #2899
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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When you watch the edited, televised version of this show, it's like watching poker with hole card cameras.

You know those idiots who watch poker final tables and scream "NOOOOOOOOOO YOU IDIOT DON'T GO ALL IN WITH JACKS HE OBVIOUSLY HAS ACES! LOOK AT HIM IT'S SO OBVIOUS! HOW DO THESE DONKEYS MAKE FINAL TABLES I'D DO SO MUCH BETTER"? That's Kos.
To be fair to Kos AND myself. We believe we'd have a better understanding of our position even with the information that is available to the Survivors. And I think we are both correct, but maybe I shouldn't speak for him. I'm not saying I'd know what the viewers at home know. I just think I'd know more than it appears some of the Survivors know. And some of them know more things than others which I think supports my idea. Whether it's paying more attention, going so far as to spy, or just reading people, there is information to be had.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:37 PM   #2900
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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The Brenda Chase dynamic is somewhat interesting. Even Naonka was counseling Chase not to annoy Brenda with his paranoia like she knew that was exactly what he was going to do. And he did. Sometimes people have a hard time holding their irritation in check. That a third party was able to predict (according to the edit) the exact interaction that transpired is probably pretty telling on how that relationship has been going.
yeah, from an editing standpoint, all of that stuff was disastrous for Chase's winning chances. The guys predict that Chase is gonna be paranoid. Brenda trashes Chase for being paranoid. Chase is shown on screen being paranoid.

At first, I thought that scene was going to lead more towards "Chase knows he can't trust Brenda", but that still could be to come.

Actually, in the course of making this post, I've talked myself into believing that'll be the late-season storyline that comes up. The only edits of those remaining that seem like winners are Brenda, Chase, and (probably not) Jane. But Brenda's getting a pretty arrogant edit for a winner, and America's Sweetheart Jane will probably get a sappy boot episode. Chase turning on Brenda, overthrowing the power duo of Brenda and Sash, and going to the end with his girls Holly and Kelly sounds pretty cool.
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