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Old 11-08-2010, 02:22 AM   #2751
Soncy
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I miss Empireman. He's the best poster. A real quality over quantity type guy.
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:33 AM   #2752
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua



is she not the cutest asian on TV ever?
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:56 AM   #2753
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Michelle Yi comes pretty close, as far as Survivor girls go.
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Old 11-08-2010, 03:11 AM   #2754
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

anyone know why rob cesternino hasn't put out a show this week?
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:11 AM   #2755
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I miss Empireman. He's the best poster. A real quality over quantity type guy.
Agreed. I'm about 99% sure he's lurking, too. Come say hi, pal.

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anyone know why rob cesternino hasn't put out a show this week?
He's out of town, and no one seems to know if he's doing one this week.
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:51 AM   #2756
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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is she not the cutest asian on TV ever?
I agree she's incredibly cute, but I'm not sure you could have chosen a worse picture to prove it.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:36 AM   #2757
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

wow at naonka russell comparisons you might be ******ed
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:01 AM   #2758
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I like how clovis responded instantly to all posts until I flirted with the idea of taking him up on his bet (which I have decided to take the high ground and not do).
I have this odd habit of sleeping at night.

I must concede that you have finally proven me wrong. I didnt think it was possible to have less respect for you but I guess I was mistaken.

Anyway, back on ignore for you.

P.S. LOL high road.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:34 AM   #2759
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I have this odd habit of sleeping at night.

I must concede that you have finally proven me wrong. I didnt think it was possible to have less respect for you but I guess I was mistaken.

Anyway, back on ignore for you.

P.S. LOL high road.
Thank god, I can finally stop pretending I won't let you get to me...
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:46 AM   #2760
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Just rewatching Pearl Island now. This season is so amazing. I don't even hate the Outcast twist as much as most fans (this was only the 2nd season I watched when I first started watching). Great characters and great gameplay by a lot of people.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:22 PM   #2761
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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wow at naonka russell comparisons you might be ******ed
See, this is the knee jerk reaction you get (and it's not that wrong because the behaviors are comparable while the motives are not--and the motives are largely what many ITT are basing their like/dislike on). And getting that reaction is completely predictable. So I don't see how you expected to actually provoke any reflection. Tell, the truth, you were just letting off steam.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:41 PM   #2762
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Just rewatching Pearl Island now. This season is so amazing. I don't even hate the Outcast twist as much as most fans (this was only the 2nd season I watched when I first started watching). Great characters and great gameplay by a lot of people.
PI was definitely one of the best pre-ASS seasons (Amazon being the only other contender imo) but I don't remember good gameplay by many people.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:46 PM   #2763
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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PI was definitely one of the best pre-ASS seasons (Amazon being the only other contender imo) but I don't remember good gameplay by many people.
If you hated the outcast twist and feel Burton and Lil can't be classified as playing well, then there is less. I agree this is a valid point.

But if you are fine with that twist you have Jon playing one of the best games in the history of the show. Then Sandra, Burton, Lil, Rupert, all making strong moves.

I know Rupert, Sandra and Lil are all considered terrible players by this thread, but that is not what I am being shown by the editors in this rewatch (I still hate Rupert as a person).

Edit: I also thought T showed a great mind for the game with her final vote, but she didn't play so great during the game itself.

Last edited by kartinken; 11-08-2010 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:22 PM   #2764
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I loved the Outcast twist and JFP. My problem was that some of the moves that JFP/Burton made should have ended up costing them (taking out Rupert one TC too early for instance) and some actually did (Burton taking JFP on reward at F5) even though they shouldn't have (Burton, JFP and Christa seem like the only people Lill had a shot at beating, and Lill voted off two of them and then refused to take the third to the finals). Lill was Sugar 1.0.

What did Rupert and Sandra do well that I'm missing? The only things I remember about Rupert is him getting mad at JFP for voting for him and then making JFP and Shawn beg to stay in the game, practically ensuring that whichever one of them survived would jump ship ASAP. Sandra randomly voted for JFP at F8 when doing so ensured that Rupert would go, and she set herself up poorly going into F3 (generally the best position you can be in is to have one other person you can who beat who will take you to F2 if they win the FIC; as played, with her poor performance in challenges, she practically never makes it to F2 unless Lill wins the FIC (lol yoga challenge) and decides to take her, both of which were unlikely.
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:36 PM   #2765
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I know Rupert, Sandra and Lil are all considered terrible players by this thread, but that is not what I am being shown by the editors in this rewatch (I still hate Rupert as a person).
Rupert's reputation, at least for me, comes from his second and third seasons, not his first.
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:40 PM   #2766
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I loved the Outcast twist and JFP. My problem was that some of the moves that JFP/Burton made should have ended up costing them (taking out Rupert one TC too early for instance) and some actually did (Burton taking JFP on reward at F5) even though they shouldn't have (Burton, JFP and Christa seem like the only people Lill had a shot at beating, and Lill voted off two of them and then refused to take the third to the finals). Lill was Sugar 1.0.

What did Rupert and Sandra do well that I'm missing? The only things I remember about Rupert is him getting mad at JFP for voting for him and then making JFP and Shawn beg to stay in the game, practically ensuring that whichever one of them survived would jump ship ASAP. Sandra randomly voted for JFP at F8 when doing so ensured that Rupert would go, and she set herself up poorly going into F3 (generally the best position you can be in is to have one other person you can who beat who will take you to F2 if they win the FIC; as played, with her poor performance in challenges, she practically never makes it to F2 unless Lill wins the FIC (lol yoga challenge) and decides to take her, both of which were unlikely.
Well as you know I have different definitions of strong play from most of the posters. Sandra was always aware of what was going on in the tribe. She, to this day is the only, or at least one of very few people who actively spy on the strategy talks of others. She brought T on one of her spying missions, which is a very bright move. She began to hatch a plan with Christa to get rid of Rupert, but Jon and Burton beat them to the punch. Sandra never had 1 vote cast against her, even though she was usually on the outside once Savage was voted out. I don't think that can happen by accident. Sandra also gave one of the top 5 FTC appearances of all time.

I completely disagree that they took out Rupert too early. He was a person very capable of going on an immunity run and would have been a heavy favorite in FTC. Taking him out ASAP was also critical because it caused Sandra and Christa to lose their footing.

Rupert built strong relationships with Morgan to the point that they were planning to target Jon first even before Burton gave Rupert immunity at the first merge TC. Working to be one of the best provider in the games history (for both tribes) was strong play to me. I'm not trying to claim Rupert was a great player, just that he made some good plays. He certainly was outplayed by Jon and Burton, but I think Jon played one of the best games ever.

I agree Burton made a mistake in bringing Jon on that last reward, no doubt about it. It could well have cost him a million dollars, but that one error is not enough to write him off as a bad player, and certainly not enough to write Jon off.

Lill is trickier. I don't think she was like Sugar. I think Sugar made all the right moves, but did them for awkward reasons and didn't even know she was making good strategic moves. Her moves were all emotionally driven and happen to randomly be for the best. Lill played much closer to Jerri 3.0 which is examine all the options the power players laid out for her and always chose the right one. Until the final vote. Bringing Sandra instead of Jon was probably a huge mistake (though she likely wasn't beating either of them [I know the jury said they would have given the million to Lill against Jon, but I don't believe that to be true had Jon gotten to argue his case, especially since they didn't know the Grandmother thing was a lie til later]). I don't actually think Lill could have beaten any of them, and taking Sandra at least gave her a shot, she just didn't expect Sandra to be such a FTC master.

I dunno how recently you've watched the season, but I think you might enjoy taking another look.
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:59 PM   #2767
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

i'm a little disappointed that the IQ bet never came to fruition. not because it would prove anything, but because it'd be hilarious to see the results.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:07 PM   #2768
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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i'm a little disappointed that the IQ bet never came to fruition. not because it would prove anything, but because it'd be hilarious to see the results.
You can't possibly really want to encourage that...
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:34 PM   #2769
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Well as you know I have different definitions of strong play from most of the posters. Sandra was always aware of what was going on in the tribe. She, to this day is the only, or at least one of very few people who actively spy on the strategy talks of others. She brought T on one of her spying missions, which is a very bright move. She began to hatch a plan with Christa to get rid of Rupert, but Jon and Burton beat them to the punch. Sandra never had 1 vote cast against her, even though she was usually on the outside once Savage was voted out. I don't think that can happen by accident. Sandra also gave one of the top 5 FTC appearances of all time.

I completely disagree that they took out Rupert too early. He was a person very capable of going on an immunity run and would have been a heavy favorite in FTC. Taking him out ASAP was also critical because it caused Sandra and Christa to lose their footing.

Rupert built strong relationships with Morgan to the point that they were planning to target Jon first even before Burton gave Rupert immunity at the first merge TC. Working to be one of the best provider in the games history (for both tribes) was strong play to me. I'm not trying to claim Rupert was a great player, just that he made some good plays. He certainly was outplayed by Jon and Burton, but I think Jon played one of the best games ever.

I agree Burton made a mistake in bringing Jon on that last reward, no doubt about it. It could well have cost him a million dollars, but that one error is not enough to write him off as a bad player, and certainly not enough to write Jon off.

Lill is trickier. I don't think she was like Sugar. I think Sugar made all the right moves, but did them for awkward reasons and didn't even know she was making good strategic moves. Her moves were all emotionally driven and happen to randomly be for the best. Lill played much closer to Jerri 3.0 which is examine all the options the power players laid out for her and always chose the right one. Until the final vote. Bringing Sandra instead of Jon was probably a huge mistake (though she likely wasn't beating either of them [I know the jury said they would have given the million to Lill against Jon, but I don't believe that to be true had Jon gotten to argue his case, especially since they didn't know the Grandmother thing was a lie til later]). I don't actually think Lill could have beaten any of them, and taking Sandra at least gave her a shot, she just didn't expect Sandra to be such a FTC master.

I dunno how recently you've watched the season, but I think you might enjoy taking another look.
You say that Sandra and Christa hatched their own plot to get rid of Rupert, which is true, but you go on to say that Burton/JFP taking out Rupert destabilized S/C, which would imply that taking him out that soon would have been an error for S/C. Moreover, if taking out Rupert would have been good for S/C, then Sandra's vote for JFP both did nothing to further that goal and provoked the person controlling the game. Also, she never brought up the fact that Lill was an Outcast, which should have been one of the main points in Sandra's favour.

The decision that needed to be made at F8 was whether or not the four non-B/J/L people remaining would get together to vote out Burton; if you think that Rupert staying in the game would make that more likely, then voting him out was good. However, if you keep him around, you can target him at will whenever he doesn't win immunity (especially since it's in both JFP's and Lill's interest to keep Burton, who was a big immunity threat himself). As it was, there was a real chance that Sandra/Christa/Tijuana/Darrah would target Burton together (although IIRC, JFP started a fight between Sandra and Tijuana, a great move that minimized the relevance of his 'mistake').

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the show of hands that Probst took at the reunion to find out what would have happened in a Lill/Jon F2 resulted in 4/3 in favour of Lill, but Darrah later said she misheard the question and would've voted for JFP. Given that, it's definitely plausible that JFP would've won anyway. Still, taking JFP gives her the best chance of winning. What points could she make against Sandra? That she never made any moves? Lill was voted out and then always acted emotionally, so the jury probably wouldn't have accepted any gameplay-based arguments from her. Lill couldn't make any arguments based on need, because Sandra's a military wife and mother. If she takes JFP, she can at least point to what a terrible person he supposedly is etc. It may be that she can't beat anybody, but JFP, Burton and Christa give her the best chance. Also, the fact that Sandra said after the merge that Lill would be difficult to beat shows that she hadn't judged the dynamic of the jury correctly.

The problem with calling Rupert a good player is that, while being productive etc. saved him in the short term, he didn't realize that he was going to be voted out and didn't do anything about it.

It's been about a month since I watched Pearl Islands, I guess I could be tempted to watch it again.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:54 PM   #2770
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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You say that Sandra and Christa hatched their own plot to get rid of Rupert, which is true, but you go on to say that Burton/JFP taking out Rupert destabilized S/C, which would imply that taking him out that soon would have been an error for S/C. Moreover, if taking out Rupert would have been good for S/C, then Sandra's vote for JFP both did nothing to further that goal and provoked the person controlling the game. Also, she never brought up the fact that Lill was an Outcast, which should have been one of the main points in Sandra's favour.

The decision that needed to be made at F8 was whether or not the four non-B/J/L people remaining would get together to vote out Burton; if you think that Rupert staying in the game would make that more likely, then voting him out was good. However, if you keep him around, you can target him at will whenever he doesn't win immunity (especially since it's in both JFP's and Lill's interest to keep Burton, who was a big immunity threat himself). As it was, there was a real chance that Sandra/Christa/Tijuana/Darrah would target Burton together (although IIRC, JFP started a fight between Sandra and Tijuana, a great move that minimized the relevance of his 'mistake').

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the show of hands that Probst took at the reunion to find out what would have happened in a Lill/Jon F2 resulted in 4/3 in favour of Lill, but Darrah later said she misheard the question and would've voted for JFP. Given that, it's definitely plausible that JFP would've won anyway. Still, taking JFP gives her the best chance of winning. What points could she make against Sandra? That she never made any moves? Lill was voted out and then always acted emotionally, so the jury probably wouldn't have accepted any gameplay-based arguments from her. Lill couldn't make any arguments based on need, because Sandra's a military wife and mother. If she takes JFP, she can at least point to what a terrible person he supposedly is etc. It may be that she can't beat anybody, but JFP, Burton and Christa give her the best chance. Also, the fact that Sandra said after the merge that Lill would be difficult to beat shows that she hadn't judged the dynamic of the jury correctly.

The problem with calling Rupert a good player is that, while being productive etc. saved him in the short term, he didn't realize that he was going to be voted out and didn't do anything about it.

It's been about a month since I watched Pearl Islands, I guess I could be tempted to watch it again.
Several excellent points.

I get the feeling the Outcast thing as a negative was downplayed by the editors. I have no proof of this, but you hardly heard any talk (possibly none)
the whole season that Outcasts would be easier to beat. JFP wanting to bring Burton to final 2 reinforces this because by any other measure besides Outcast status, Burton would be a nightmare opponent at FTC.

I think Rupert did realize something was up when Burton went back on his promise to give Rupert his reward if he won, but I agree he did nothing with this information and still seemed shocked when he was voted out.

I don't think Sandra and Christa were in the loop at all about Rupert being targeted at 8. I think Sandra just threw her vote at Jon b/c she was pissed at him and didn't think it would matter.

I totally agree that Lill brought Sandra over Jon as mostly an emotional move, but I also think she wanted to have the argument that she put the schemer out of contention... I'm probably stretching. But Lill had many confessionals where to me it was obvious she was both an aware and thinking player. She's not like top 40 alltime or anything, but she is better than people give her credit for. Certainly much better than Sugar.

You've clearly seen it recently enough that your memory of the season is as sharp as mine, I just think we have different measuring sticks for quality of play.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:59 PM   #2771
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Is there anything more tilting than internet IQ/salary/anything pissing contests?
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:01 PM   #2772
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Fabio: "Hey guysssssss... Uncle Fabio found some treeeeeeeemail!!!"

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Old 11-08-2010, 08:01 PM   #2773
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

And for those among us who are huge TnA enthusiasts:

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Old 11-08-2010, 08:31 PM   #2774
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Is there anything more tilting than internet IQ/salary/anything pissing contests?
No, nothing. I'm sorry for even mildly entertaining his notion.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:37 PM   #2775
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Is there anything more tilting than internet IQ/salary/anything pissing contests?
I tend to agree but I saw and angle for free money and the gambler in me could not pass it up. I almost had him too.

Last edited by Clovis8; 11-08-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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