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Old 11-07-2010, 02:41 PM   #2676
Clovis8
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by kartinken View Post
This is where Boc and I disagree. I think hatred of NaOnka is way more likely to be from a place of misogyny than racism.
KK logic is so fun to play with.

I hate NaOnka but I think Parvati is one of the best players ever. Am I a misogynist or a feminist?
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:47 PM   #2677
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
KK logic is so fun to play with.

I hate NaOnka but I think Parvati is one of the best players ever. Am I a misogynist or a feminist?
Clovis, please. Your brain can't handle this discussion.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:44 PM   #2678
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

Not sure if this adds any fuel to the fire, but somebody I know well told me that at the school they teach at (middle schoolers), there are a bunch of black girls who are EXACTLY like Naonka with that attitude.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:08 PM   #2679
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Not sure if this adds any fuel to the fire, but somebody I know well told me that at the school they teach at (middle schoolers), there are a bunch of black girls who are EXACTLY like Naonka with that attitude.
I taught for two years at an inner-city alternative school for pregnant girls. I had like 2 white students ever, but I certainly loved a ton of my students(all minorities, many black). The students that I disliked were often quite similar to Naonka. Does this make me racist?
I understand the ****** hand they have been dealt in life, but the blatant disrespect that I often recieved had me throwing my hands in the air and saying "c'mon" ala Fabio.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:30 PM   #2680
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

If Naonka was a white man named John who was stealings socks and food, walking up to people just to tell them how much he hates them and threatening to throw their prosthetics into a fire, that guy would be just as hated as she is.

Pull your head out of your ass.

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This is where Boc and I disagree. I think hatred of NaOnka is way more likely to be from a place of misogyny than racism.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:38 PM   #2681
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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If Naonka was a white man named John who was stealings socks and food, walking up to people just to tell them how much he hates them and threatening to throw their prosthetics into a fire, that guy would be just as hated as she is.

Pull your head out of your ass.
There was, but his name wasn't John it was Russell Hantz. That's my entire point. This thread loved Russell and hates NaOnka (for the most part).

Get YOUR head out of YOUR ass and read what I actually post.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:48 PM   #2682
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

kart,

a) (for the most part) applies to loved russell
b) the prosthetic aspect is a HUGE difference
c) if you think it's more sex than race...how come people don't hate on holly wrt dan's shoes? this might make us all racists (it doesnt), but at the very least it makes you wrong =)
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:53 PM   #2683
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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kart,

a) (for the most part) applies to loved russell
b) the prosthetic aspect is a HUGE difference
c) if you think it's more sex than race...how come people don't hate on holly wrt dan's shoes? this might make us all racists (it doesnt), but at the very least it makes you wrong =)
They did, but Holly redeemed herself and Nay did not. Now that Holly has become a quiet follower, all the hate for her is gone.

Edit: And most of the people this tirade of mine is directed toward still don't like Holly, she's just a non-entity to them.

Last edited by kartinken; 11-07-2010 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:48 PM   #2684
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
KK logic is so fun to play with.

I hate NaOnka but I think Parvati is one of the best players ever. Am I a misogynist or a feminist?
x2
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:12 PM   #2685
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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x2
Ok you guys liked Parvati. Congrats, you get the feminist award.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:22 PM   #2686
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Ok you guys liked Parvati. Congrats, you get the feminist award.
and Cirie, Sandra, Erinn, Tina, Danni, Kathy, Jenna, Collen, Amber, Amanda, and Steph among many many others.

Boy I am such a woman hater.

....off to buy some more sleeveless white tank tops and pick up my copy of B*tches Monthly. This months issue is called "Why men are better than women: it' all about the penis".
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:29 PM   #2687
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I think NaOnka is among the worst players of all time but Cirie is among the best. Am I a racist or a black panther?
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:32 PM   #2688
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I think NaOnka is among the worst players of all time but Cirie is among the best. Am I a racist or a black panther?
I'm not saying any of you guys are card carrying klansmen, or consciously want all women to know their place or die.

I'm saying that you are more willing to overlook certain flaws in white men than people in other groups.

I think the prejudices are incredibly subtle to the point you don't know they are there. But I believe they are.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:46 PM   #2689
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

ok kartin. this has been some terrible discussion for the past couple pages. if you want to call out the racists and sexists, just do it. who here are you trying to change. i cant tell here who is sexist or racist. so enlighten us. then you can take your chat with them to pms and explain why its not right to hate woman or blacks.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:52 PM   #2690
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield View Post
ok kartin. this has been some terrible discussion for the past couple pages. if you want to call out the racists and sexists, just do it. who here are you trying to change. i cant tell here who is sexist or racist. so enlighten us. then you can take your chat with them to pms and explain why its not right to hate woman or blacks.
I didn't approach it in the best way (as I tend not to do) b/c I was upset. I intentionally didn't want to call people out b/c I was hoping people would be less defensive and more reflective.

I accept partial blame in that failing.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:58 PM   #2691
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

kart,

i'd be very curious to meet your mom.

-keep
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:19 PM   #2692
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
I think NaOnka is among the worst players of all time but Cirie is among the best. Am I a racist or a black panther?
No one, at any point in this thread, has called you a racist. Quit making terrible arguments, you just make yourself look stupid.

I have family members that would probably admit that they're racist to some extent. But they like people like Colin Powell, pre-sex scandal Tiger Woods, and the well-to-do black family at the local church.

Kart is making a somewhat lazy accusation regarding people who refuse to admit that NaOnka is getting a Russell-like edit this season. The people who love Russell, hate NaOnka, and refuse to acknowledge that they may have similarities PROBABLY have biases against some of the groups that Na represents that Russell doesn't.

Last edited by boc4life; 11-07-2010 at 09:20 PM. Reason: or they could just be gamebot fans who only want to see BOLD DRAMATIC SURVIVOR PLAYS
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:19 PM   #2693
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

The trouble is that those claims are completely unfalsifiable. All I've learnt in this pointless cluster**** is that I might be racist/sexist, but that if I am I may not even know what it is that makes me racist/sexist.

There are differences between a poor P.E. teacher and a rich Texas oilman that go beyond skin colour and genitalia. Calling them the same and then putting a preference for Russell down to prejudice is just silly. For one thing, Russell is consciously aware of his role in the show and how to get himself portrayed as an important character. His actions seem to be more the result of wanting camera time than of malice. By contrast, NaOnka's apparently unprovoked attacks on Kelly B show a complete lack of self-awareness. Russell has a wife and kids, whereas NaOnka cites her greatest achievement in life as not getting pregnant. Russell has given us some funny moments in his time, NaOnka has not (humour is obviously a subjective thing, but you can't - unless I'm underestimating your inventiveness - come up with an argument for why that might be racist).

Would you also say that anyone who prefers NaOnka to Russell is prejudiced for the same reasons?

EDIT: fwiw I think there's a very worthwhile debate to be had about the lazy approach the casting directors take towards women/minorities, but that's barely related to this one.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:36 PM   #2694
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

I'm ready for all the backlash from saying this, but I am dropping this subject.
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:19 PM   #2695
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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Originally Posted by SavageTilt View Post
The trouble is that those claims are completely unfalsifiable. All I've learnt in this pointless cluster**** is that I might be racist/sexist, but that if I am I may not even know what it is that makes me racist/sexist.

There are differences between a poor P.E. teacher and a rich Texas oilman that go beyond skin colour and genitalia. Calling them the same and then putting a preference for Russell down to prejudice is just silly. For one thing, Russell is consciously aware of his role in the show and how to get himself portrayed as an important character. His actions seem to be more the result of wanting camera time than of malice. By contrast, NaOnka's apparently unprovoked attacks on Kelly B show a complete lack of self-awareness. Russell has a wife and kids, whereas NaOnka cites her greatest achievement in life as not getting pregnant. Russell has given us some funny moments in his time, NaOnka has not (humour is obviously a subjective thing, but you can't - unless I'm underestimating your inventiveness - come up with an argument for why that might be racist).

Would you also say that anyone who prefers NaOnka to Russell is prejudiced for the same reasons?

EDIT: fwiw I think there's a very worthwhile debate to be had about the lazy approach the casting directors take towards women/minorities, but that's barely related to this one.
Good post, Savage. You're right on pretty much all these points, and that's why I described ken's accusations as "lazy".

There's a ton of editorial bias at play here, and Na/Russell certainly ARE far different people. But there's also lots of personal biases that decide whether or not a viewer "likes" a contestant.

Russell is a great example of this. While there are many that love Russell, there are TONS of people who are convinced he's the antichrist, a "terrible Survivor player", and have wanted nothing more than to see him voted out. If you're a Russell lover and don't believe me, check out the SurvivorSucks forums, try to be a Russell fan, and see what kind of reaction you get.

NaOnka is another great example. There are tons of people who think NaOnka is loud, disgusting, and obnoxious. However, there's also plenty of people who think she's the best part of this season and either enjoy the television she provides or maybe see some of themself in NaOnka. Poll a bunch of young African-American women on who their favorite Nicaragua characters are and I'd be shocked if Na wasn't overwhelmingly the most popular.


But whatever. There's more to Na than just being a black woman who talks pretty ghetto. It's just an interesting thing to notice. People who are inclined to dislike black women who talk ghetto have a difficult time seeing her as entertaining or good television, they just have FIERY hate. Their minds just shut off when they see her on screen and hear her voice.

And again, whatever. All of those people aren't necessariliy dangerous bigots who should burn in hell. They just have biases. And it's interesting to notice.
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:23 PM   #2696
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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No one, at any point in this thread, has called you a racist. Quit making terrible arguments, you just make yourself look stupid.
I'm not making an argument Boc I am mocking KK, whom I have no respect for, and being a smartass.

For the record, KK called many of us both a racist and a misogynist many many times ITT.

P.S. I admitted a long time ago I am card carrying gamebot fan which is why I love Russell and hate NaOnka.
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:23 PM   #2697
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

sooooo, how bout that survivor show anyway?
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:26 PM   #2698
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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I'm not making an argument Boc I am mocking KK, whom I have no respect for, and being a smartass.

For the record, KK called many of us both a racist and a misogynist many many times ITT.
Nah. KK has called you a terrible poster many times (you are). And KK has said many times that he believes many people in this thread are racist/misogynist. But I'm not sure I remember KK specifically calling out anyone as racist/misogynist.
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:26 PM   #2699
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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sooooo, how bout that survivor show anyway?
sparking debate, as always
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:29 PM   #2700
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Re: Survivor: Nicaragua

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sooooo, how bout that survivor show anyway?

who would watch that crap!
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