Much better that the attacks come from someone like Russell that hates everyone, right?

fwiw, I remember being impressed by Bill's resume and hopeful for him as a player, but then the pre-season videos showed a guy who seemed to constantly be in (bad) comedian mode. He was obnoxious. Look up any youtube vid he's ever done as source material here.

If he was like that on the island, I could see that fault rubbing people the wrong way, and in Colton's mind (again, NOT excusing this) justifying some sort of abuse to distance himself. He wasn't a flawless player.

Gary. You are really way off base on this whole argument. Everyone understands why producers cast those people. We are saying its wrong.

Sorry C8, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who's off base. You're talking about an idyllic world where ignoring problems makes them go away. I'm talking about the real world where all of the following apply:

- Not talking about racism doesn't make it go away.
- We've seen offenders receive just isolation, punishment and job loss penalization, an example that's been broadcast (through TV and media) to millions as a precautionary tale. This sheds a light on issues that are very much in practice today and casts down upon those who participate in them. A good thing.
- Players know full well from past seasons and their contracts exactly what they're getting in to.
- Producers are under constant pressure to keep content fresh and relevant, and status quo means cancelization/job loss. Self-interest/preservation plays a massive role here.
- Producers are broadcasting under the supervision of both network and regulatory standards and practices and marketing strategists taking direction from the public pulse. All of these bodies have approved this direction.

All I've been told in response to these truths is racism is wrong. OF COURSE IT IS!!! THAT'S WHY THEY'RE PUTTING IT ON THE SHOW!!! You call it glamorization. I call the result demonization.

Convo is crazy pills.

I just watched 42 recently. It still boggles my mind that not only did we have separate baseball leagues, we had separate places to eat, sit, use the bathroom... At some point, our society has grown. Individuals grow. We have experiences. We grow. It doesn't happen over night. Jackie Robinson might not have set out to be a hero, but he is a hero. I'm sorry for the pain he had to endure, but I'm grateful for his sacrifice.

There is still hope for Aaryn. She's very young. There is hope for Aaryns. But it doesn't happen over night. Attitudes don't change because Clovis says they are wrong--though that is certainly part of the solution. Change...it's a process.

Is there hope for a Colton? I don't know. It would be nice. If not, I hope he gets his.

Gary, I think I understand where you are coming from, but I'm just a white, middle class, female so I'm sure my opinion is mostly invalid on this topic.

I think I love you.

Gary,

If, as you have said, you would not cast a Kkk knight or pedophile, then you have conceded the argument. Why wouldn't casting a member of NAMBLA be ok? Surely they would be subjected to public derision thus giving us all an opportunity for a lesson.

Gary, id caution you not to respond to omaha on account that he is awful.

Thats all

Had to look up nambla.

It comes down to subtlety from a producer's viewpoint. Casting a KKK knight or NAMBLAite or a member of WB Church or similar groups creates un unnatural environment because their chosen affiliation defines them in an overtly radical way. They've made a choice. At that point, they're a caricature instead of a character (beyond the similar but lesser version of that metamorphosis we see on Survivor anyway) and that makes the show a lot harder to sell as reality. It's professional wrestling at that point. Or Springer/Povich (but note these shows DO cast these types).

Pedophiles don't fit into that answer, but as I said earlier, as much as I'm not a fan of Colton/Aaryn's attitudes, I think pedophilia is in an entirely different league. I think it's silly to suggest it isn't.

Thanks all for the Omaha warnings. I've dealt with far bigger/better trolls. He has to work on his game.

to add, I think the moment they cast someone like Clovis suggested is the shark jump, if we didn't get there already with Leif, Brandon and/or Phillip.

what are you trying to say here? What qualified Leif as a certifiable member of the "insane" group of survivors? Are you suggesting that the casting of a midget is entirely a publicity stunt as opposed to a social experiment? What is the ratio of normal-to-midget in society? Is the 400-1 Survivor ratio an accurate demographic representation? Explain yourself.

FYI if survivor ever "jumped the shark" it was S22. Rob Mariano playing for a 4th time, Russell playing 3/4 seasons, the hideous redemption island concept, 6 person "duels", Phillip Sheppard cultivating a phony all star persona, Probst holding a personal grudge against Zapatera, etc.

I'm saying casting a guy with a very low IQ for his physical differences was a clear mistake.

who was the other slightly ******ed player Jeff mentioned? Tarzan? Alicia?

Members of KKK are openly and proudly racist. Known pedophiles are listed under Megan's law, people have to be informed when one is moving nearby in some states. These people face public scrutiny on a daily basis.

Folks like Aaryn, GM and Colton have likely never been called racist before they appeared on TV. I'd wager those 3 (defininitely Aaryn) don't consider themselves racist. The more subtle brand of racism is still pretty rampant and seldom discussed. I don't understand how ignoring it eliminates it.

Who said ignore it? I said don't give it a soapbox. Those are very different things.

Where is your line? Would you cast...


Aryan
Colton
A holocaust denying historian
A member of the skin heads
A KKK white knight
A statutory rapist
A serial rapist
A pedophile
A war criminal


These are all just degrees on the same spectrum.

There's a huge difference between casting Aaryn/Colton and casting a KKK member, and if you don't understand why, you must live in a bubble.

How is it a soapbox and what are they preaching?

A KKK Grand Dragon Wizard (or whatever they call themselves) or a proud member of NAMBLA has an agenda in life and would try to advance that agenda on the show.

Colton is just an idiot that gets recognized for what he is. I assume Aaryn is the same but I don't watch that show.

In degree, not kind.

He got RECAST for crying out loud. You could maybe, maybe, convince me the first time was some kind of socio-political backdoor lesson attempt on CBS's behalf. The second time, they are simply giving a bigot a massive soapbox to spread hate.

First, a soapbox requires an agenda and while Colton has one (self-branding), it has nothing to do with hate. Second, you can call it what you want, but for a lot of fans of the show, it's giving the viewer a chance to see Colton either see the error of his ways for get his comeuppance, since V1.0 can't win a social game. Either would make for good TV. Third, I'd never call it a socio-political backdoor lesson attempt by CBS. Def not their agenda, just a happy circumstance of it playing out. CBS is in the business of making money, just like any other business, and they make money by getting people to watch their shows. Colton enables that.

...and before you say "people won't watch because Colton is on", a lot more will watch just to see what happens next. They wouldn't have recast him is marketing research hadn't found as much.

btw, want to mention I'm actually disappointed they recast him, since I think he'll get the Phillip 2.0 treatment, taking valuable camera time away from strategy.

This. Clovis seems to be overlooking a key point here: douchebags are good TV, and nice people are boring. Watching the Coltons/Aaryns/Russells/Shannons of the world go crazy and say inappropriate stuff is infinitely more entertaining than watching a bunch of women in their mid-40s swap lasagna recipes. Every show/movie/story needs someone for the audience to root against, and Colton fills that antagonist role beautifully.

Again, I understand why they cast them. I agree they bring ratings. I agree they create buzz and get more free marketing. That has nothing to do with its moral correctness.

Even it they single handedly triple ratings its still wrong to knowingly cast a person who will spread hate and bigotry.

The ends don't justify the means.

Basically your argument boils down to ratings>morality.