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Penn & Teller : Fool Us Penn & Teller : Fool Us

07-19-2011 , 01:21 PM
re : 3), check this post on the digitalspy forums.

dunno if you need to register to see that, but it's worth it, some pretty knowledgeable types in that thread, maybe more stuff revealed than in the talk magic thread which is also pretty good.
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07-19-2011 , 01:46 PM
anyone know when ep6 airs?
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07-19-2011 , 01:48 PM
saturday evening, same as ever. then the last one the week after.
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07-19-2011 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zygote
others ive seen have successfully challenged penn and teller within reason.

i totally agree. its very odd, ambiguous criteria that they are using.. the actual contest of the show i find very poorly structured. the parts i enjoy of the show are the high quality magic, P&T, and ross aint bad. Wish the contest had more merit though.
I'm not getting the hate for 'ambiguous criteria'. So what? The obvious intent is to provide an avenue for innovative and entertaining tricks. Sure they are a bit inconsistent, meh.

Provide to many strict rules and people will angleshoot. I don't care that the cd guy may have actually fooled P&T when I could come up with at least 5 different ways of doing the trick without training, but also don't think that the card guy from the first ep actually fooled them either.
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07-20-2011 , 12:40 AM
its like those victorian guys. If the trick can be done by switching the deck and it looks that way to the audience, then it doesnt matter if they do it a much clevererer way, the audience wont be impressed because they think they know how its done.
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07-20-2011 , 03:07 AM
My thoughts on the Victorians, which seemed immediately clear:

Spoiler:
The way I think it worked: Ross shuffled the cards. They added their own ordered cards to the top and bottom, and start going through the top ones. When they get to the end of the cards they added to the top, the little one takes a bunch of cards (enough to include all Ross' shuffled ones) and throws them away 'to save time'. He isn't all that casual in picking the amount to throw away, because he's being careful to cut it within a few cards of some pre-determined point in the pre-ordered bottom section. They have a signal (perhaps as simple as the words 'and this one?') for each card within some distance of his target cut point, so he can tell the fat guy where he's cut it. The fat guy hesitates for a second while remembering the signal, then remembers it's for Alexander Graham Bell, and continues on from that point in the order he's memorized.
The little guy gets Ross to cut 'about half' of the deck (so again they only have to learn signals for the cards close to the middle, especially easy because at this point there's only 10 or so left). When taking the cut half, instead of casually throwing them as he's been doing with other cards, he holds them for a bit, during which he catches a glance at the bottom card and gives the signal (again, it could be as simple as the specific wording of what he says) to the fat guy, who now again knows where in the order they are and continues on.
That's it.

How they got away with it: Their claiming they fooled P+T was just them differentiating between 'switching decks' and augmenting their deck. It was just sneaky, evasive answering, and that's probably why Penn was annoyed later (as I think someone said he was).

paraphrasing:
Penn: We saw that sneaky move you didn't want us to see. Shall I say more?
Them: Well...yeah....
Ross (cutting in to clarify): What kind of move are we talking about?
...
Penn specifies a 'deck switch', and they show the bag and box are empty, and Penn says 'well we saw you do it'.
...
exact quotes:
Victorians (interrupting Penn before he again gets more general than 'deck switch'): "I think it's worth saying at this point that every single card that Jonathan shuffled was on his hand in the order he shuffled it. That much we promise.
Ross: (carefully choosing words): you did not switch the deck then?
Victorians: We did not switch out that deck.
Penn: So there was nothing at all done from the time Jonathan shuffled the deck to the time Jonathan sat down and you put it on his hand?
Victorians: We did not switch out the cards that Jonathan shuffled.
...
Penn: Did you, just to monkey with us, do a move that looked tricky in order to lead us astray?
Victorians: No.

They just reframe the questions evasively, rather than saying yes/no. They didn't switch cards out, and they didn't switch the entire deck. They truthfully deny doing a 'deck switch' by defining that as something specific and distinct from augmenting the deck. That's all it is.

Last edited by buddyholly; 07-20-2011 at 03:25 AM.
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07-20-2011 , 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpyetblunt
its like those victorian guys. If the trick can be done by switching the deck and it looks that way to the audience, then it doesnt matter if they do it a much clevererer way, the audience wont be impressed because they think they know how its done.
And I agree 100% on this. The trick sucks, and the audience would've thought so (and I'm sure we all thought so). It was just successful on the show because of they way they denied what they'd done.
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07-20-2011 , 07:33 AM


lol

Last edited by Yeti; 07-20-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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07-20-2011 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly
My thoughts on the Victorians, which seemed immediately clear:

Spoiler:
The way I think it worked: Ross shuffled the cards. They added their own ordered cards to the top and bottom, and start going through the top ones. When they get to the end of the cards they added to the top, the little one takes a bunch of cards (enough to include all Ross' shuffled ones) and throws them away 'to save time'. He isn't all that casual in picking the amount to throw away, because he's being careful to cut it within a few cards of some pre-determined point in the pre-ordered bottom section. They have a signal (perhaps as simple as the words 'and this one?') for each card within some distance of his target cut point, so he can tell the fat guy where he's cut it. The fat guy hesitates for a second while remembering the signal, then remembers it's for Alexander Graham Bell, and continues on from that point in the order he's memorized.
The little guy gets Ross to cut 'about half' of the deck (so again they only have to learn signals for the cards close to the middle, especially easy because at this point there's only 10 or so left). When taking the cut half, instead of casually throwing them as he's been doing with other cards, he holds them for a bit, during which he catches a glance at the bottom card and gives the signal (again, it could be as simple as the specific wording of what he says) to the fat guy, who now again knows where in the order they are and continues on.
That's it.

How they got away with it: Their claiming they fooled P+T was just them differentiating between 'switching decks' and augmenting their deck. It was just sneaky, evasive answering, and that's probably why Penn was annoyed later (as I think someone said he was).

paraphrasing:
Penn: We saw that sneaky move you didn't want us to see. Shall I say more?
Them: Well...yeah....
Ross (cutting in to clarify): What kind of move are we talking about?
...
Penn specifies a 'deck switch', and they show the bag and box are empty, and Penn says 'well we saw you do it'.
...
exact quotes:
Victorians (interrupting Penn before he again gets more general than 'deck switch'): "I think it's worth saying at this point that every single card that Jonathan shuffled was on his hand in the order he shuffled it. That much we promise.
Ross: (carefully choosing words): you did not switch the deck then?
Victorians: We did not switch out that deck.
Penn: So there was nothing at all done from the time Jonathan shuffled the deck to the time Jonathan sat down and you put it on his hand?
Victorians: We did not switch out the cards that Jonathan shuffled.
...
Penn: Did you, just to monkey with us, do a move that looked tricky in order to lead us astray?
Victorians: No.

They just reframe the questions evasively, rather than saying yes/no. They didn't switch cards out, and they didn't switch the entire deck. They truthfully deny doing a 'deck switch' by defining that as something specific and distinct from augmenting the deck. That's all it is.

Spoiler:
this was my exact same thought and i thought it as the conversation was going, and I have no idea why penn and teller didnt understand that. It was way easy to read by the way they were answering the questions they got
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07-20-2011 , 08:24 PM
what's the pic? i can't see it. opening in a new window (or browser) gives a bad xml message and/or access denied.

Last edited by Yeti; 07-20-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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07-20-2011 , 08:34 PM
rehosted, sry, i normally check all my images in a diff browser but didn't this time
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07-21-2011 , 12:01 AM
I love Penn and Teller. Saw the first 2 episodes and loved it, going to catch the rest
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07-21-2011 , 07:44 AM
Just watched the first 5 episodes, is that all of them? Anyways, great show. I've figured our exactly zero tricks lol - except for something like 'there was a deck switch probably' which I don't know where and doesn't count. But I've never actually read about how tricks are done before this thread.
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07-21-2011 , 07:57 AM
there was 1 back in january(?) which might be labelled as s01e00 these days, but i'm sure you can find it by the date. there's been 5 in the past 5 weeks, two left.
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07-21-2011 , 08:15 AM
Are you saying there's been 6 total (including the pilot)? If so I may have missed one but I recall every trick mentioned itt so perhaps I did see them all.

Anyways, no speculations here. I'm surprised the French dudes aren't getting more love itt. It wasn't a funny act, and maybe a bit long, but it melted my brain the most by far. I agree about the Victorians, just an awful act hate it.

I liked a lot more of them - about 50% I think are cool and maybe more, I'm easily impressed. The 10 year old kid was fun even though his tricks weren't as good as many others. I guess because he was a freakin kid and really commanded that stage well. Great personality, I thought.
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07-21-2011 , 10:26 AM
yes 6 episodes. the 'pilot' had the john archer envelopes trick, as well as michael vincent (sleight of hand dude from this week).

that kid was 15.
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07-21-2011 , 10:52 AM
ok saw the pilot. must've missed the first real episode. who was on it?
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07-21-2011 , 05:12 PM
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7...nandteller.jpg

Last edited by Yeti; 07-21-2011 at 07:00 PM.
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07-21-2011 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
ok saw the pilot. must've missed the first real episode. who was on it?
teenage couple, old guy with snooker balls, penn and teller did a helium trick
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07-21-2011 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti
conclusive spoilers regarding the dinner table trick :

http://imageshack.us/f/694/pennandteller DOT JPEG/


gonna have to alter the link yourselves, it keeps getting censored
not working. rehost pleasee <3 you yeti i know you <3 me
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07-21-2011 , 08:17 PM
that card clearly says table 3 and pizza, but the yellow was at table 1 with chicken and rice. does it have all 3 listed on there? i see it has a "table 3" heading on there, like they were supposed to read the one that corresponded to whichever table they ended up at. that would be even worse than i'd originally thought.

i have no idea how p&t didn't even try asking to see what was actually written on the cards
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07-21-2011 , 08:32 PM
that pic is taken at table 1, so, yes to whatever 'mehhh' feeling you are having
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07-21-2011 , 08:37 PM
wait - but the lady also picked where the food would be at, how did that get set up?

Last edited by General Tsao; 07-21-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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07-21-2011 , 08:56 PM
that seems to be all he did - picked which food would end up at which table, which i am assuming has to do with the fact the dishes were covered the entire time

then again, not seeing where the envelopes came from, he could just have 6 sets of envelopes to cover all the possibilities
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