My biggest problem is I still don't get the whole MiB/Jacob plot. Why is MiB bad and why can't he leave the island (even before he became the smoke monster)? He doesn't seem bad to me at all, just angry.
How many people does someone have to murder before they become bad in your eyes? MiB is well beyond the limit of say 1 that most people set. I'm guessing Hitler doesn't seem bad to you, just angry?
Yes I agree (the flash sideways) worked on its own merit and it was entertaining, but the reality is that they dedicated half a season to somthing that had no bearing or relevance to the story that had been told previously. After the big reveal there is no reason to go back and watch the flash sideways, somthing that the defenders were saying might well be the case.
this. the created an entire new storyline for the final season, one that was largely driven by the mystery of what exactly it was they were showing us. after the reveal, there is no reason to go back and watch.
Phil was pretty adamant the whole time that the flash sideways would be better on 2nd viewing, that it would make more sense, be better, etc. I can't imagine this is the case at all
I'll take the Widmore-Ben rivalry since you agree that there were shortcomings there. Think back to all the stuff that happened off island with Ben, Widmore, Sayid and whoever else where people were getting killed and picked up by the van with the whole "you're on the wrong side" (team? I can't remember exactly which is fine because none of this mattered!) It wasn't exactly boring but the main thing that made that part interesting for us to watch was that it seemed like there was a lot more to the conflict than we knew. Whatever it was, it was sure to be good. In retrospect, all of that stuff between Ben/Sayid and Widmore is pretty meh. With their method of storytelling they made it a lot more interesting by deceiving into thinking there was more to what was going on when it was really just a pissing contest between two arrogant dicks. Now that we know that those episodes aren't going to be compelling at all if we watch them again.
The same goes for some of the battles between the losties and others. We (or our wives perhaps) might have cared a bit about how Sawyer and Kate would get out of the cages and away from the others, but what made it somewhat watchable (that was in a bad stretch) was that we didn't know what the deal was with the others. As above, it seemed like there was a lot more to the conflict than we knew. Whatever it was, it was sure to be interesting. As it turned out, apparently they were doing that **** for no reason other than that they were power hungry and bloodthirsty - completely ordinary bad-guy stuff. So again, their method of storytelling made the conflict look much more interesting than it turned out to be in retrospect.
Aaron is probably the best example of this. Sure, babynapping drama isn't boring or anything but that whole storyline was hugely amplified because the writers strongly implied that they had weird reasons for wanting him so badly. That they didn't makes it pretty dull. I don't want to rewrite the show, but if Aaron turned out to have an important role in protecting or saving the island then it would make that part of the early plot very good going back through.
For the opposite, look at last summer. We found out more about the smoke monster and that made it a lot of fun to go back and watch the old scenes with the monster and apparitions. Same goes for the scenes with what we thought was Locke in season 5. All of those scenes got a lot more interesting - what we learned added to them. Unfortunately, with the all of the conflicts from the first 4 seasons what we learned this season took a lot away from them.
After 2 or 3 episodes of season 6, I rewatched the entire series and loved 95% of episodes, I don't think I disliked any of them, even the lame filler episodes. Perhaps you wouldn't enjoy a bunch of the storylines when rewatching, perhaps you would. Give it a try and keep an open mind.
This is the point though you kept saying it and saying it, and clearly you were going to like the ending come what may, but the fact is that it didnt fit into the story at all. All it was was a self indulgent way of doing a final little curtain call to all the characters from the previous seasons, get the audience to give a little cheer when their old fave comes on, have a little cry with the flashbacks as we remember all the good times the characters had. Gets them all together for the bow as the final curtain goes down. Its panto 101 and I wanted more from it than that.
Yes I agree it worked on its own merit and it was entertaining, but the reality is that they dedicated half a season to somthing that had no bearing or relevance to the story that had been told previously. After the big reveal there is no reason to go back and watch the flash sideways, somthing that the defenders were saying might well be the case.
I do think people are putting to much into the island being sunk there though it was clearly just a diversion to help hide the reality of the flash sideways.
The on Island stuff had its own problems as well, yes Jacks completing the circle last few minutes was nicely done, but the meat of the story was a huge anti climax. Lets face it the culmination of the 6 seasons with hundreds of deaths and untold misery all round that the final battle was pulling out a plug and putting it back in.
On top of that there was no sense of jeapordy in any of it, if the plug stayed out was it the island destroyed or the world, if smokie left the island was it really the end of eveyone we know and love or just people like Penny who was in danger as Widmores daughter. That was more the failure of Over the Sea because it didnt really flesh out the Mythology, the power of the source or even Jacob and MIB enough to make us as an audience really care and didnt really know what the stakes were that were being played out.
Also those maintaining it always was a character driven show and are searching Lostpedia to give answers to some of the unanswered questions, do you really think Lostpedia would exist today and be so comperehensive is the mystery elements were not so important to a huge part of the audience.
It seemed pretty obvious to me that the mysteries weren't going to be resolved in the way a lot of people itt wanted them to be. As soon as they brought Jacob/MiB into the story it was pretty clear they were gonna explain things the typical sci-fi way. I mean, even if they completely abandoned all of the characters and focused solely on the mythology, there's no way they could resolve everything. I pretty much thought they resolved everything just by making it clear that Jacob had supernatural powers. :P There could be a whole other 6 seasons about the island, imo. That said, I had no idea they were going to devote half of season six purely to character development (the other half consisting of majority plot but still, obviously, some character development).
I think, even if the writers did an amazing job, everyone would be very unsatisfied if all of s6 was completely about resolving mysteries. Keeping the explanations vague is probably way more powerful then any distinct answers would have been. We'll never know.
if i only watched the pilot and the finale, the ending would have made perfect sense, and i would be completely satisfied with it. unfortunately, i also watched everything in between. i also now believe the writers "always knew what the ending would be" because it had nothing to do with anything, so they could happily make up whatever else they wanted along the way.
Exactly, agree with this 1000000%. Thinks this sums the haters posts, and puts into words the essence of what they hate about they show, even if they were focusing alot of their arguments on alot the trivial stuff. The singular brilliant deception by the writers/producers of LOST, in a show built on deception. Don't worry the show will be awesome, we have even had the ending planned from day one so don't worry that we are making it up as we go along. Failing to mention that all the seemingly awesome stuff in between that hooked viewers was completely unrelated to that ending, and indeed that ending could have been superimposed onto any show throughout history of television.
In fact, my very special alternate ending to Seinfeld: Jerry, Elaine, Kramer, and George meet in a synagogue in purgatory after being awakened. Cue Seinfeld, "Hey guys the time we spent in the coffee shop were the most meaningful moments of my life, I cannot move on without you!" Cue Kramer, "Well, that's peculiar." THE END
Originally Posted by primetime32
LOL at people saying that the ending sucked and was uninteresting smack in the middle of a 2k post thread discussing the last episode. It's already the 5th largest OOTV thread and its only discussing the final episode while the other longer threads are discussing entire seasons or series.
The ending allowed all of us to discuss the ending and its possible meanings for a long time to come. If the show ended and wrapped everything up in a nice little bow, do you think this thread would be half as long?
This is a terrible post, no one gives a **** about the ending and we are all actually pretty clear on its meaning, at least generally. 90% of the posts are not discussing the meaning of the show or whatever, and 95% of the posts aren't even really about the finale. The vast majority of the posts are people saying (and people responding to this argument) that the writers ruined the seemingly brilliant first 3 seasons by giving terrible answers to the questions they posed (am willing to concede to the defenders that most of the major ones were at least somewhat answered) and those seasons were not nearly as brilliant as they seemed in retrospect because the writers were just making up **** as they went along with the only clear mandate being confuse the viewer as much as possible.
Really? You think it would be "pretty ****ing bizarre" for religious people to believe completely opposite things yet still fall under the same umbrella of "christians"? Are you serious? You might want to learn a bit more about the different sects of Christianity. Amazing.
I guess if this is what you believe, than "heaven" must be filled with mass-murderers such as Hitler, Jeffrey Dahmer, Gacy, every priest child molester, etc. etc. Sounds like an awesome place full of people who ruined others lives...
Can you just imagine walking around in heaven and seeing the priest who molested you when you were 7 years old? Can you imagine Jews being in heaven and seeing Hitler? Can you imagine seeing a man who murdered your family but "accepted Christ" before he died so he's now in heaven?
I can't. But somehow that is what people have deluded themselves into believing...
sorry for the thread derail... most religious beliefs are so preposterous when you actually analyze them, which is why the ending of Lost where everyone moves on to an afterlife is a complete joke.
The entire religion of Christianity is based on the belief that we are all sinners, but it's ok if you repent. This is the primary lesson of the crucifixion where the murderer getting crucified next to Jesus goes to heaven too because he saw Jesus and realized the error of his ways. Of course, you have to actually repent. It seems pretty much impossible that Hitler repented of his sins. Also, I would say that the hitman who confesses every week but proceeds to continue being a hitman has never repented even if they're following their pennance, etc.
Mind you, I'm not saying any of this makes any sense. The very idea of a "good" God sending people to be tortured in "Hell" for eternity is a paradox. That's what the bloody religion is about though.
Some of the people still discussing food drops have to be leveling, right? I mean, so insignificant and there's been, at least, one logical explanation. Ben has a ton of money at his disposal, Ben keeps paying for/arranging ahead of time (doesn't need to be 30 yrs ahead, lol) the food drops.
. Keeping the explanations vague is probably way more powerful then any distinct answers would have been.
I aggree 100%... but only when several explanations can co-exist.
The problem with Lost is that there is not even 1 guy that found a plausible explanation that would wrap-up every mysteries. No matter how hard you define a theory, there is always one event in Lost that would show otherwise.
We're living in the web 2.0 era. Millions of people published their theories. If no one has ever been able to find yet a plausible explanation for everything, it probably means that there is no theory at all to be found.
Dont you see we are living in METALOST ? In Lost, Man of Reason who says it doesn't make sense vs. Man of Faith who believes that the island has a big plan.
It is the same rivalry amongst fans : those who say t sucks and those who say "There has to be a plan."
I understand that people are upset because they didn't get out of the finale and final season what they had come to expect. But wtf is the point of tarding up the thread with trying to point out useless plot holes? You're not proving anything to anyone. If you want to seriously discuss the finale, cool. Otherwise, GTFO.
I just can't even rebuttal to people who disliked the finale, because they're so wrong. Really, what did you want? I just don't get it.
Many people are crtitcal of the meandering of the last two seasons and not simply the last episode or the lack of reveals. It wouldnt be such a big deal if the first 4 seasons hadnt been ****ing amazing. I remember watching season 5/6 with my Lost fanboy roomate and every episode I kept bugging him how nothing really ever happened in the show. And he would be like "no omg this is a huge reveal you will see how it will effect future episodes" and I was like "lol, ok good lulck with that". I stuck around for the last two seasons because it still was good television, but I never once really expected them to recapture the magic of the first few seasons. Oh well, life goes on, time to watch the Wire I think
Been around for a while, but some are pretty good..
How to Make a Peanut Butter Sandwich, by the Losties
1. Gather ingredients
2. Point gun at ingredients and shout "HOW DO I MAKE A SANDWICH OUT OF YOU?!?!?"
3. Breathe heavily through your nose as though you were about to hit ingredients
4. Give up and make the sandwich yourself, and eat it bitterly
1. Make separate sandwiches, one with peanut butter and one with jelly
2. Take a bite of the peanut butter sandwich, declaring it the best
3. Take a bite of the jelly sandwich, declaring it the best
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 ad infinitum
5. Follow peanut butter or jelly sandwich into grave danger
1. Throw the jar of jelly at wall, sneering "I don't need no sandwich"
2. Call the mascot on the jar of peanut butter lots of clever nicknames
3. Huff and puff and stomp around and grumble a lot
4. When no one's looking, make perfect, even, symmetrical peanut butter and jelly sandwich and sit in a corner, enjoying every bite
1. Sit idly by, believing that the ingredients will find a way to make a sandwich out of themselves
2. Lose faith and make the sandwich anyway
3. Realize that you were the instrument by which the ingredients chose to make a sandwich after all
4. Run around the room and grab everyone's knives, insisting that their sandwiches will do the same in time
1. Make sandwich
2. Eat sandwich
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 ad infinitum
1. Procure 23 milligrams of uranium-20
2. Set hadron supercollider to eight megajoules
3. Program a sandwich-making macro using Cobol or Visual Basic
4. Act all tough-like
1. Eat sandwich
2. Call the sandwich "brother"
3. Place peanut butter slice over jelly slice
4. Spread jelly on the other slice
5. Spread peanut butter on one slice
6. Take two slices of bread, a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly
1. Steal someone else's sandwich
2. Claim you coerced them into making the sandwich for you all along
3. Say you'll tell them everything if they make you another sandwich
4. Stare at them all creepy-like
1. Lay out plans for one of the most intricate, fascinating, and delicious sandwiches of all time
2. Just as you start making it, get shot
1. Make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich
2. Have someone take a bite, then tell them it's a baloney sandwich
3. Make up a whole bunch of other ****, then say you had planned it all along
4. Buy a few yachts
Dont you see we are living in METALOST ? In Lost, Man of Reason who says it doesn't make sense vs. Man of Faith who believes that the island has a big plan.
Ya, I have to say I think where one lands on the finale probably speaks volumes about their own inner battle between faith and science. In addition, I suspect it may be indicative of which brain dominant that person is. Obv, I am only hypothesizing, but I would guess right brain people were much more satisfied overall than left brain people with what we learned about the mythology and the ultimate resolution of the show.
It's so odd for me to see how unsatisfied some people itt, esp Assani and his legion of supporters, wrt to resolving unsolved mysteries. While, I thought it was fun to speculate from week to week, and don't get me wrong I spent hours on lostpedia over the years, played all the ARGs etc... they weren't at all why I fell in love with the show, or what kept me watching. I loved the show because of how tortured the Lostaways were, and the endless suffering they had to endure in attempts to take control of their life through giant leaps of faith and reason.
I fell in love with the show because of moments like this...
Locke screaming towards the sky > the hatch light came on
Jack chasing his father through the forest.
Jack pounding charlies chest like a madman trying to save him.
Alex getting capped
Charlie capping Ethan.
Juliet Smashing Jughead at the end of the incident
Boone hallucinating his sister get killed (SUCH WIN!)
Charlie detoxing and throwing his heron into the fire
Eko facing off with Yemi right before he gets worked over by the smokemonster.
Junkie Jack realizing he has to go back
Anything Re: Penny and Desmond
Getting the dharma van up and running.
Michael's derangement in trying to get back walt.
Sawyers incredibly tragic backstory.
The cat and sayids torture Victim returning the favor.
Perhaps, it is because I discovered Lost during the darkest days of my own life that I am drawn more to the emotional/psychological content more than the mysteries, or maybe I am just a sap, but I thought these character's were incredibly intriguing and that the growth/failures through suffering was just as compelling, in its own right as learning about Dharma/Others/Time Travel. Obviously, there were a lot of overly maudlin, cringe inducing moments as well, but for me, and Im rather certain for the writers, this show was about people > plot.
The biggest Lost moment for me was clearly "WE HAVE TO GO BAAAAAAAAAACK!". Totally was the peak of lost, and very ironic that it was at the end of season 3. Also loved Desmond's flashes through his life. The other huge moment was dumping Locke's body on the beach after he get's Ben to kill Locke. Two huge reveal "OMG" moments. That's what made the show for me.
I really didn't that huge emotional connection with the characters many did. And it's not because I am not capable of it, I still get teary eyed when I watch the ending to Six Feet Under. I just didn't ever really care about them that much. Can't put my finger on why. I can understand for the people who did get all emotionally involved why they might like the ending, but I just never really cared that much about them. My interest in Lost was almost entirely on the WTF moments and cool one-off stories (The Long Con being my favorite example).
I am shocked anyone actually liked Michael's annoying ass quest for WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT! It's things like these that made me detest the characters and cheer when they died. Kate and her neverending annoyance, Sun being totally useless, Claire and her beeehbeee, Jack being a general douche and annoying, Locke being a bumbling idiot screwing everything up, and all the various redshirts who served no purpose. In the end, I cared about none of the characters. Not sure why that is, but that's a huge part of why the super cheesy sappy ending was just awful. But for the All My Children and General Hospital fans, I can see why it was OMG AWESOME.
I am shocked anyone actually liked Michael's annoying ass quest for WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT! It's things like these that made me detest the characters and cheer when they died.
I loved it because it made me HATE him and get satisfaction when he dies! One of the things I liked so much about the show is how much the writers manipulated our feelings about certain characters. I went from loving locke to hating him and thinking his a bumbling idiot to loving him again so many times. The same went for Jack. I started out completely despising him and eventually he became my favorite character. I started out liking Kate, and then ofc ended up wanting her to die at every possible moment. We start out thinking Sawyer is a villain, but he ends up being probably the most universally well liked character on the show, aside from desmond.
There aren't many shows that flip the audiences perspective on main characters so drastically. Usually, we know who we like and we stick with them. Lost was anything but.