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***Official*** LOST: The End. ***Official*** LOST: The End.

05-24-2010 , 08:58 PM
I think this quote from one of the Lost recaps boils the debate down quite concisely:

"Did the Greater Point To It All effectively render all the unanswered questions of the series moot, or does an ironic allegory for ''letting go'' and ''life is filled with loose ends and dangling plot threads'' not absolve a story from, you know, actually resolving all its gosh darn storylines?"

I, personally, am more in the former camp in the finale enjoyment/interpretation spectrum. LOST was a story with a MESSAGE, not just a series of thrilling and awe-inspiring events, but with a profound and deep moral to it all. To span 6 seasons, with the constraints of real-world TV making, makes LOST an incredibly brilliant work.
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05-24-2010 , 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Pudge714
Assani,
Shows need to have peripheral characters. I don't know why you think all these characters were built up as being important or why they needed to be important.

I think you are putting plot arcs, conflicts, themes, characters, under the same umbrella, when they are very different.
I thought Dogen/Lennon were important because the show built up the importance of the temple and specifically mentioned that Dogen was keeping Smokey at bay.

I thought Widamore was important because he got a ton of screen time, him vs Ben was shaping up to be a major storyline, and he was shown to be behind a lot of important things(Locke first coming to the island for example)

I thought Walt was important because the Others specifically wanted him and he had crazy powers that nobody else had.

I thought Aaron was important because a psychic refused Claire's money and was begging her to raise Aaron herself.

I thought the Others were important because all of season 2 led us to believe that they were the shows' main villains.


Do you need me to go on?
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05-24-2010 , 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dids
SERIOUSLY WTF.

Did other people in the church change outfits?

I'm not the world's biggest Kate fan, but she looked great in that dress and I don't understand why she changed in the end unless it was to make the point that she was from a different point in time.
Probably to clean off the afterbirth.
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05-24-2010 , 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic
To all the haters, I can't say it any better than this:

Jeff Jensen E! article

Jensen has always been the best interpreter of LOST...everything he says makes sense to me and I agree with him.
solid read. ty for posting
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05-24-2010 , 09:00 PM
For all of the people who wanted the ending to give answers to almost everything introduced in the series, this is what this discussion would've looked like:

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Ah, so that was the meaning of that.
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Hear, hear...
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+1
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05-24-2010 , 09:04 PM
Good god Assani killing this thread. Assani, if you ever make a TV show, let me know, I want to watch it.
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05-24-2010 , 09:05 PM
Assani,
If you watch the pilot of S1 of The Wire you would think Judge Phelan is a very important character. He is a judge in a show about institutional problems in a metropolis a judge would seem like a logical person to have a big role in the show. However he isn't an important character, because we aren't seeing his story. Writers need to focus on specific characters or you will have muddled mess, however you still will have characters in the periphery of your leads that need to exist.
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05-24-2010 , 09:05 PM
Oh yeah, one more question....wtf did they have to recreate the original flight circumstances in order to get back to the island? Remember how they needed jack's Dad's shoes and all that crap?
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05-24-2010 , 09:08 PM
While the "lost journey" over 6 seasons was certainly "fun", watching So You Think You Can Dance is "fun" too.
Assani Fisher's post summed up a lot of what I was thinking, but I'll expand a little bit.

The show (at least in the first four or five seasons) always seemed to be written with such careful planning and attention to detail, that I had such high hopes for the reveals that were coming. There was so many mysteries that seemed so important, but I never really had an "OHHHHHH" moment. Every time something was answered, I had a vague sense of "hmmm, okay, this better be leading to something even bigger". All the answers to almost all mysteries were lame, and they never really cohesively added up to anything special.

The whole "Final Journey" summary episode was one big circle jerk to make the show seem super epic and special and remind the viewers "this is a character driven show". Why can't a show be a "character driven show" that also makes cohesive sense and answers the questions in a proportional way that the majority of the show builds it up to.

I don't think I've ever been more disappointed with a show in my entire life. I always really liked the characters and was always surprised by all the Kate-hate because I really liked her and really liked all the characters. Still, it's just terrible, terrible writing to just build something up the entire show to something super epic with careful planning with sprinkling of "important" details all over, to just gloss over any real overarching answer to the mysteries. Yes, a lot of questions were "answered", but none of the answers were ever remotely satisfying to how much they were built up. This show ended up being a "fun" show, and not an "excellent" show.
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05-24-2010 , 09:08 PM
What about those customs agents that seized Jin's cash.
What ever happened to them? Did they just go one with their day?
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05-24-2010 , 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CanISayWanker
It's the other way round, the guy from Hurley's mental institute heard the numbers being broadcast from the tower and then mumbled them repeatedly in the institute, which lead Hurley to use them to play the lottery. They probably originally got on the broadcast because of something to do with the candidates. As for why they were on the hatch, I don't know, probably because the guy who wrote the 'Numbers' episode thought it would be a sick ending to show a shot of them on the hatch.

I know a lot of people disagree, but I feel it was more important for the writers to give a satisfying ending to the characters' stories than answer random questions like 'why were the numbers on the hatch?' or 'why did the photos change in Miles' room?', and that is what they did.

Also, I believe the numbers were covered quite heavily between seasons one time (Valenzetti Equation), although I don't really pay much attention to stuff that isn't in the body of the show.
The numbers would have been awesome if they were answered by Hurley reading them for the transmission back in the 70s.
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05-24-2010 , 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Pudge714
Assani,
If you watch the pilot of S1 of The Wire you would think Judge Phelan is a very important character. He is a judge in a show about institutional problems in a metropolis a judge would seem like a logical person to have a big role in the show. However he isn't an important character, because we aren't seeing his story. Writers need to focus on specific characters or you will have muddled mess, however you still will have characters in the periphery of your leads that need to exist.
my issue with Lost is that pretty much NOTHING matted. They just introduced a ton of random storylines that ended up not mattering at all in the end. I'm firmly convinced that they were just making it up as they went along, and I was hoping all along that would not be the case. Even looking back at the early seasons....like introducing the Tailies and then just killing them all off(except for Bernard)....there was absolutely no point whatsoever to that MULTIPLE SHOW story arc. Just like with the temple, or with Widamore, or with a number of other things.

We're kinda going in circles now though. Lost was my absolute favorite show through 5 seasons. Now, I wouldn't even recommend it to a friend. I doubt any of you will change my mind there.
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05-24-2010 , 09:10 PM
Ultimately I feel like Ben Linus. I followed the show even though it didn't make sense. I went with it wherever it took me. I didn't complain or question the motives of the show. I followed blindly. I was confused and had my own theories but knew there was a plan. A grand plan that I wanted to watch and be a part of. Somewhere along season 6 I realized it was all bull****. Just like Ben in season 5(?). But like Ben I kept going. I realized what I thought the show was about, wasn't want the writers wanted to show me. I gave up on wanting answers. I felt betrayed but kept watching the show. I was let down during the final season but was ultimately happy with the finale given what I had realized and learned. I was genuinely happy they were all in peace somewhere.

Even though I was super pissed about most of this season, I still want more. Like when Hurley asked Ben to be his #2, everyone complaining about Lost right now would happily be on board if they brought the show back. There would even be a little glimmer in your eye at the chance of finally getting what you want.
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05-24-2010 , 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
I thought Dogen/Lennon were important because the show built up the importance of the temple and specifically mentioned that Dogen was keeping Smokey at bay.

I thought Widamore was important because he got a ton of screen time, him vs Ben was shaping up to be a major storyline, and he was shown to be behind a lot of important things(Locke first coming to the island for example)

I thought Walt was important because the Others specifically wanted him and he had crazy powers that nobody else had.

I thought Aaron was important because a psychic refused Claire's money and was begging her to raise Aaron herself.

I thought the Others were important because all of season 2 led us to believe that they were the shows' main villains.


Do you need me to go on?
what did I miss? He was there after Locke came FROM the island but your statement I need evidence for?
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05-24-2010 , 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher




5. Its just bad writing


Making certain things/characters seem really important, building suspense about them, and then revealing that they aren't important is simply bad writing. And Lost did this time and time again. Even if you buy into the "it was merely a character driven show" then you still have to acknowledge that Lost did this a ton of times and that its simply horrible writing. I won't even bother listing all of the examples here because theres too many. Some people will say that its just the nature of a TV show as its hard to plan so far ahead, but I would then point to things like the temple...it was only introduced in season 6 and it ended up being completely meaningless.




Cliff notes: Lost was a mystery-driven show. The writers built a ton of mysteries but had no real ideas on how to conclude them. So instead of concluding them, they gave a ton of unsatisfactory answers. Now several Lost fans are claiming that "it was a character driven show all along."
absolutley this.

obvious examples of this are Walt, Ben vs. Widmore, Ilana, and even Richard to an extent, i feel Ab Aeterno was a magnificent episode on its own, but looking at the "Richard" mythos leading up to that point in the series, the reveal regarding his origin is a huge letdown, imo.

still the most outstanding instance is the flash sideways and desmond's intial awakening in "purgatory," coupled with his instantaneous elightenment and willinginess to work with widmore due to aforementioned enlightenment. they deliberately lead you to believe that the flash sideways holds the answer to saving the island reality. desmond even has awareness of the flash sideways after being awoken which none of the other losties experience that leads you to believe even more that desmond's sideways plan is going to influence the outcome of the actual reality.

obviously this was not the case.
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05-24-2010 , 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MiloDanglers
Ultimately I feel like Ben Linus. I followed the show even though it didn't make sense. I went with it wherever it took me. I didn't complain or question the motives of the show. I followed blindly. I was confused and had my own theories but knew there was a plan. A grand plan that I wanted to watch and be a part of. Somewhere along season 6 I realized it was all bull****. Just like Ben in season 5(?). But like Ben I kept going. I realized what I thought the show was about, wasn't want the writers wanted to show me. I gave up on wanting answers. I felt betrayed but kept watching the show. I was let down during the final season but was ultimately happy with the finale given what I had realized and learned. I was genuinely happy they were all in peace somewhere.

Even though I was super pissed about most of this season, I still want more. Like when Hurley asked Ben to be his #2, everyone complaining about Lost right now would happily be on board if they brought the show back. There would even be a little glimmer in your eye at the chance of finally getting what you want.
This sounds familiar.
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05-24-2010 , 09:15 PM
Mark me in the camp of those that loved the finale. One thing that hasn't been stated yet amidst all of the focus on the story, but I think that Michael Giacchino's score elevated Lost from decent TV show to one of the all time greats. Just hearing those strings play could negate many an unanswered plotline.
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05-24-2010 , 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cres
what did I miss? He was there after Locke came FROM the island but your statement I need evidence for?
Abbadon(working for Widamore) told Locke about the walkabout, which is why he went to Australia. Maybe I'm connecting the dots too much here to assume that Widamore knew that this would result in Locke coming to the island, I dunno...but its definitely either implied or a huge coincidence.
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05-24-2010 , 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ser William
Mark me in the camp of those that loved the finale. One thing that hasn't been stated yet amidst all of the focus on the story, but I think that Michael Giacchino's score elevated lost from decent TV show to one of the all time greats. Just hearing those strings play could negate many an unanswered plotline.
On one of the interviews they talked of the 16th member of the cast being the soundtrack. His score was indeed magnificent.
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05-24-2010 , 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dids
What I loved about the first seasons wasn't so much the quality of the show- it was just all the OMG LOST moments. A huge part of that was the mystery and depth they created. You had all these questions that you could run and talk about with your friends. All these easter eggs that were so interesting to find an analyze. The show's success wasn't really the quality of the acting/directing/whatever, it was how it engaged the audience and involved them in the mystery.

That's why the ending seems so unsatisfactory. They just really lost that element of the show, and gave us answers and an ending that had little to do with all the clues that had been left for us along the way.

The moment with Charlie and Desmond this season brought me back to OMG LOST, and then they really failed to deliver on that when Desmond's grand awakening/plan is just "this isn't real, we're all dead, but we're happy and we need to move on to... whatever we get cast in next?"

Not to get to fan fiction-y, but I have to think that we'd almost all agree that some moment where everybody in the sideways-verse realizes that it isn't real and they don't belong, and somehow use it to save the day (my thought was that Jack murders Smokey on the operating table and that's the loophole he can use to hurt him) would have been a lot more interesting than some feel good heaven-y, mostly meaningless epilogue.
This is a pretty awesome post. You've definitely swayed me a bit from "couldn't have been any better really" to "well, maybe it could have been better actually."

My favorite part of the show was also the ZOMG LOST moments. The show really captured me for the first time when it was revealed that Ethan wasn't on the manifest. From that moment on I was hooked.
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05-24-2010 , 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by [Phill]
Lol, no shock that Assani watched Usual Suspects 30 times and still didnt understand the film.

Virtually none of that story was true right down to the fact Keaton wasnt even on the boat when it blew, hence they found no remains.

Personally i consider this the best part of the film and not the worst, but 90% of people are like Assani and dont understand the film which is a shame.
I love that you act so condescending and arrogant here, yet the post right above yours is a link saying that one of the two writers agrees with you and one of the two writers agrees with me. But I guess in your world everyone who doesn't agree with you is "******ed", huh?
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05-24-2010 , 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ser William
Mark me in the camp of those that loved the finale. One thing that hasn't been stated yet amidst all of the focus on the story, but I think that Michael Giacchino's score elevated Lost from decent TV show to one of the all time greats. Just hearing those strings play could negate many an unanswered plotline.
Absolutely no doubt about that. Giacchino's work on LOST is A++++
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05-24-2010 , 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cres
On one of the interviews they talked of the 16th member of the cast being the soundtrack. His score was indeed magnificent.
I don't think anyone would have any complaints about the score. Absolutely fantastic. Well, besides "You All Everybody". But if you read up on the back story on the lyrics of that song, even that is awesome.
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05-24-2010 , 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
I love that you act so condescending and arrogant here, yet the post right above yours is a link saying that one of the two writers agrees with you and one of the two writers agrees with me. But I guess in your world everyone who doesn't agree with you is "******ed", huh?
To be fair though, you did use The Usual Suspects as some sort of gauge for how a story can be perfectly wrapped up and explained to a tee.

The guy who posted that link is in the camp of those of us who think that a vague ending that leaves things open to interpretation can be a good thing and result from a very good story.
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05-24-2010 , 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by snagglepuss
lost lovers,

how do you feel the series will hold up on another viewing?
This.

There is NO WAY I would ever watch this show again. I have plans to re-watch The Wire and The Chappelle Show this summer. Both haven't been watched in awhile so they will sort of be fresh. There is just no way I could ever waste that much time to re-watch LOST because huge season long arcs and several new characters introduced in seasons 1-5 essentially don't matter for the ending (or hell even the next season). I might as well read the episode recap on tv without pity.
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