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***Official*** LOST: The End. ***Official*** LOST: The End.

05-24-2010 , 05:16 PM
To all the haters, I can't say it any better than this:

Jeff Jensen E! article

Jensen has always been the best interpreter of LOST...everything he says makes sense to me and I agree with him.
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05-24-2010 , 05:18 PM
In terms of Miles/Walt/Desmond etc- it's pretty clear that the in Lostverse, people have powers. The island isn't the only source of this, especially in Walt's case, as he had no connection to the Island when his powers were manifesting. Miles you could argue maybe got some Lostdust in his Fruit Loops from his dad or something.
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05-24-2010 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTZ2
but why does the island have to be on the bottom of the ocean just because they are in purgatory, also jack died after having successfully stopping mib from getting of the island why would he even think that the island sank?
Together they created a life where they did not have the events of the Island. As Christian said "The most important part of your life was the time that you spent with these people", BUT they cant just relive the events of their lives otherwise there is no point. That is the letting go part of it.

So when they created this pocket dimension when the question is raised "when we are flying over the island why dont we crash again?" Jack's subconscious answers "it was sunk when the plug was pulled from the light at the heart".

Plus it was a cool shot for the TV show

Again, like the neck thing its a TV show so they add it in, but it does have an inbuilt logic to it. Between everyone in that group the only one who knew how the island could be killed was Jack and he knew it would sink because that is what MiB said.
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05-24-2010 , 05:21 PM
well if anything, this finale got the first tear to roll down my cheek since i was about 12. i seriously havent cried in 13 years, and this was the closest ive come.

i thought the finale was excellent, one of the most moving things ive ever seen and im devistated that Lost is over, with or without island answers.
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05-24-2010 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conz
well if anything, this finale got the first tear to roll down my cheek since i was about 12. i seriously havent cried in 13 years, and this was the closest ive come.


You didn't shed a tear at the end of The Constant?!?
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05-24-2010 , 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conz
well if anything, this finale got the first tear to roll down my cheek since i was about 12. i seriously havent cried in 13 years, and this was the closest ive come.

i thought the finale was excellent, one of the most moving things ive ever seen and im devistated that Lost is over, with or without island answers.
You were one of the people who hated Across the Sea and thought the show was doomed, right?

Not being sarcastic, genuinely curious cause I just personally haven't seen many people who hated s6 but enjoyed the finale. Most of the hate seems to be coming from people who have been bummed on the show for a season or more anyways.
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05-24-2010 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
No. The island at the bottom of the ocean didnt exist. It was part of the purgatory construct of the Losties.

That specific part came from Jack. Note that MiB said he would destroy the island and it would sink. When Jack later died and they together created this dreamscape universe he added this detail because this is the logical conclusion to how the island would not exist in that "waiting room".
that makes zero sense.

more likely at the beginning of S6 the producers had planned for the finale to go in a different direction and then changed their minds.
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05-24-2010 , 05:32 PM
IM at peace with the ending, not exactly how I would want it but its good enough for me...lol at people who want all the answers....Im sure the writers could just come out and say them , then those same people will be like...you are just making those up to tell us something.....Its probably impossible for you guys to be satisfied, and you should accept that...
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05-24-2010 , 05:35 PM
I think the episode was very solid.

Though I do wish the show took a slightly different direction this season I enjoyed it overall though there were a couple of bad episodes (the Kate one and ATS was very underwhelming).

I do feel for the writers of the show though because when they do offer answers everyone complains that they are hand holding or are not satisfied with the answers. If they don't answer questions than no one likes that either.

There really wasn't that many things that were not explained and you can come to conclusions about what was going on with what was provided, I don't know if that was the intent of the writers but that's what I have gotten out of it.

Clearly the flash sideways is the purgatory and everything that happened before that was "real". Agree that island was sunk was just part of the "constructed" purgatory.

Walt was brought to the island, clearly he had some special powers there were others that were brought to the island for the same reason, it didn't work out...end of that

I think a lot of the mystery as far as groups of people on the islands purpose can be explained as this. Almost no one really knows what the island is or its purpose. Jacob for good or for bad didn't think that it would be a good idea for others to know except for a trusted few and even then it seems they didn't fully understand their purpose. I mean if you told someone that they were on an island that had been there since the beg. of time and if serves as a plug (a actual) plug as we see, from evil or what ever getting out in the world and it must be defended or everyone dies (in the world) I don't think anyone could handle that.
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05-24-2010 , 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Neue Regel
that makes zero sense.

more likely at the beginning of S6 the producers had planned for the finale to go in a different direction and then changed their minds.

I can't believe people REALLY think they made up the flash sideways device and how it would be resolved just on the fly, in the middle of s6.

Gimme a break, now you're just going out of your way to hate on the show.
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05-24-2010 , 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagos
Not being sarcastic, genuinely curious cause I just personally haven't seen many people who hated s6 but enjoyed the finale. Most of the hate seems to be coming from people who have been bummed on the show for a season or more anyways.

I loved the finale, but I was not a big fan of S6, and I was quite critical of S5 as well. It had a lot more to do with a perceived drop in production value, an inefficient use of screen time, and pacing problems when it came to reveals. It really pissed me off when they started constantly showing old footage, I mean how many times in S5 did we see Jack telling kate "we need to go back", or the damn dock footage with Sun threatening to kill ben with them all meeting back up to return to the island. I am thoroughly satisfied by the storyline all the way through, though.

I think Lost suffered from backloading a lot of the reveals, and creating a lot of unnecessary hype about questions and answers. There was no reason why we couldnt start learning the foundation of the island much sooner, and I think ATS would have been much better received at the beg of this season, or if the information started being disseminated as early as S4 in bits and pieces. We would care alot more about those characters and the mythology, imo, if we had more time to develop a connection.

Also, there was no reason to wait until s6 to reveal trivial secrets, like that the whispers were dead people... I mean, I laughed when Hurley said "I think I know what these are now" when Michael showed up. I think alot of the hardcore fans have known that since season two? Somebody broke down the different audio channels and maybe reersed them or something to figure it out ages ago.

Anyways, if the show had started alleviating some of the mysteries starting in s4, instead of waiting so long, I think there would be a lot more happy fans, and Darlton would have made more of the audience care about the characters and the overarching message.

Last edited by Halowax; 05-24-2010 at 05:45 PM.
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05-24-2010 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
Together they created a life where they did not have the events of the Island. As Christian said "The most important part of your life was the time that you spent with these people", BUT they cant just relive the events of their lives otherwise there is no point. That is the letting go part of it.

So when they created this pocket dimension when the question is raised "when we are flying over the island why dont we crash again?" Jack's subconscious answers "it was sunk when the plug was pulled from the light at the heart".

Plus it was a cool shot for the TV show

Again, like the neck thing its a TV show so they add it in, but it does have an inbuilt logic to it. Between everyone in that group the only one who knew how the island could be killed was Jack and he knew it would sink because that is what MiB said.
So in your opinion is this everybodys purgatory time line or is this just Jack's?

I still don't buy that the island is sunk because that's def. not how Jack would imagine it, especially with the critical role he played in making sure its protected. I mean why even show it at the bottom of the ocean if its no longer important, oh cause its fun to **** with us
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05-24-2010 , 05:40 PM
After 'Across the Sea', many people told me to wait until the series was over before I judged it. Well, its over now and not surprisingly I feel exactly the same as I did two weeks ago. A few reflections about the show as a whole(cliff notes at bottom):


1. "Lost is a show about the characters and their stories. The mysteries are just secondary."


This seems to be a popular line among the Lost-defenders out there. Whats funny to me is that for 5 seasons whenever people complained about not getting answers, the response was always "Just wait...its still early in the story." And now that we haven't gotten those answers, the response is to tell us that the story was purely character driven and that the answers aren't all that important. I think thats BS.

I think that if the Lost-defenders were honest with themselves, they'd admit that the show's main appeal has always been the mystery aspect. Its the mysteries that have caused us to spend hours and hours on online message boards debating different things. Its the mysteries that caused us to go back and rewatch old episodes for clues. Think back to some of the best scenes in the history of the show such as Michael shooting Ana Lucia and Libby, Eithan not being on the plane's manifest, finding out that it was a flash forward and not a flashback at the end of season 3, first seeing Jacob and MiB at the beginning of the season 5 finale, etc. What do they all have in common? They're all great scenes because they're either great reveals or great cliffhangers. I think that anyone who doesn't admit that this is the major reason Lost is so popular is simply lying to themselves to justify how poorly the writers have handled the conclusion of so many mysteries.

Even if I were accept that "its a character driven show", then I don't think the characters are collectively strong enough to make it anything more than an average show. Don't get me wrong....Ben and Locke were phenomenal characters. Sayid, Desmond, Richard, and a few others were very solid as well. However, there were definitely a ton of weak characters such as Kate, Shannon, Boone, Claire, Sun(early on she was ok, but her character was horrendous after her and Jin got separated), Michael, etc. As a whole, the characters' stories just aren't compelling enough to make Lost anything more than a slightly above average TV show.

Listing the best characters only proves that its a mystery show imo. Ben and Locke were quite clearly the two best characters imo, and not surprisingly.....they had huge mysteries concerning their character's intentions and beliefs throughout the show!


Lost clearly marketed itself as a mystery show all along. Every promo was about mysteries and answers to those mysteries. The cliffhangers, the music to build suspense as a cliffhanger/reveal was happening, the character's vague communication, etc. was all in line with a mystery show. And that is what made it so great! So I'm simply not buying this nonsense about it being a character driven show all along.



2. The journey was indeed quite fun and very well done in certain parts.


I'm sure that because of the overall tone of my post, most people will think I hate the show. Thats not true at all. Through 5 seasons it was my favorite show of all time, and I argued for it as the best show ever quite a few times. The scenery was great, Emerson and O Quinn were brilliant in their roles, Sawyer/Hurley provided decent comic relief, the music fit the show perfectly, and so on. Theres definitely a lot to like about the show, and I do admit that I enjoyed it a lot.


3. My expectations were clearly too high, but I still think they could've done a lot better.

As I've mentioned before in these threads, I love movies with big twist endings that make you want to go back and rewatch the movie from the beginning. Movies such as The Usual Suspects, Fight Club, Sixth Sense all do a great job of this. And I was hopeful that whenever the "big reveal" happened in Lost that I'd want to go back and rewatch it from the very beginning.

I guess that with a TV show it just isn't possible to have a totally cohesive story and tie all the loose ends together. But I dunno....I'm not a writer by any means, yet even I can think of some pretty cool ideas that would've easily been better than what they did. A few things I thought would've been cool:

-The Losties traveled back in time to the 1970s(and earlier) and we find out that every problem they encountered in 2004 was actually caused by them in the past. Ben wasn't lying at all when he said "We're the good guys" as they were simply trying to fix the Losties mistakes. I thought that the "we're the good guys" line was actually one of the most interesting things about the early/mid seasons because the Others seemed so obviously bad on the surface. I thought it would've been really mind blowingly awesome if upon rewatching the show, we would've seen that the Others were actually 100% good all along and only appearing bad because of the situation that the Losties put them in when they time traveled. The show kinda hinted at this a bit with Richard only thinking Locke was important because Locke telling him in the 1950s and with Ben only betraying his people because of Sayid, but they had a great chance to tie everything up that way and they just didn't do it.

-Locke was actually Flocke for quite a long time. Locke was a really strange character with a lot of mysterious beliefs and a quickness to have "faith in the island". I though it would've been really cool to see that after one of his meetings with smokey or when he "saw into the heart of the island" that something really did change(i.e. it was no longer Locke) and that would give a great explanation to his character's actions throughout the series.

-There was a lot more to the "Desmond skipping through time" storyline, and they could've ran with that idea a lot more. Perhaps some of the other main characters such as Widamore and Ben were also skipping through time(when they mentioned that they couldn't kill each other in Widamore's hotel room, my theory was that they were each other's constant).

-Have Aaron be extremely important and the entire "don't let him be raised by another" be 100% true. I speculated a few weeks ago that maybe Alt-timeline Aaron would be raised by Claire and that he would grow up to be good(Jacob?) and the one not raised by Claire would grow up to be bad(MiB?)...it might not be the best story in the world, but at least it would've tied together a lot of loose ends and made the early season happenings actually mean something.


There were quite a few ways for them to go about answering all of these questions, but they decided to make the Jacob/MiB storyline the major one. And I just never really liked their storyline at all. I've already mentioned how bad I think Across the Sea was, and that probably is the main reason I don't like their characters....their motivations and actions simply don't make all that much sense. It definitely doesn't have me itching to go back to rewatch the show from the beginning.....if anything, I bet I'll just get more pissed off doing that because of the inconsistencies I'll find.


I think there were at least 10 theories I read on online message boards that I would've liked a lot more than the Jacob/MiB "story" we got. I put "story" quotes because I still don't feel as if we even got their story, which is my main complaint.



4. Looking back now, character's actions/motivations make even less sense.

-So why exactly did Ben go through all that trouble just to get Jack to operate on him? Jack loved saving people! There was absolutely no reason to not just go up, introduce yourself, and ask for Jack's help.

-Why were the Others so confrontational? Now that we know that the Others were just a random group of largely irrelevant people, it doesn't really make sense that they'd be so rude about "This is our island, don't cross this line ever again" type of stuff.

-WTF was Widamore's motivation? He hired Abbadon and a ton of other people, he set in place a ton of events(Abbadon telling Locke to first go to the island, telling Locke to go back to the island, etc.), him and Eloise supposedly were ok with murdering their child because of some greater good, him and Ben had some huge feud which was never really explained or even important, etc.

-There is a statue to Tawaret, they bring a fertility doctor to the island, Walt and Aaron are seemingly incredibly important....all of which leads us to believe that kids/pregnancy has some huge importance.

-Dharma....they were so interesting early on. Its so disappointing that their entire storyline is pretty much "A bunch of scientists found that the island had a ton of weird properties, they did experiments, their experiments never were successful enough to accomplish much."




5. Its just bad writing


Making certain things/characters seem really important, building suspense about them, and then revealing that they aren't important is simply bad writing. And Lost did this time and time again. Even if you buy into the "it was merely a character driven show" then you still have to acknowledge that Lost did this a ton of times and that its simply horrible writing. I won't even bother listing all of the examples here because theres too many. Some people will say that its just the nature of a TV show as its hard to plan so far ahead, but I would then point to things like the temple...it was only introduced in season 6 and it ended up being completely meaningless.




Cliff notes: Lost was a mystery-driven show. The writers built a ton of mysteries but had no real ideas on how to conclude them. So instead of concluding them, they gave a ton of unsatisfactory answers. Now several Lost fans are claiming that "it was a character driven show all along."

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 05-24-2010 at 06:01 PM.
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05-24-2010 , 05:41 PM
The more I think about it, doesn't it seem like they wrote Widmore in as a guy who was going to answer *some* things? LIke, he knew about the electromagnetism and Desmond, and presumably knew something about the island, or at least was willing to explore (exploit?) it

Last edited by Fyte On; 05-24-2010 at 05:42 PM. Reason: wow hadn't refreshed in a bit
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05-24-2010 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTZ2
So in your opinion is this is everybodys purgatory time line or is this just Jack's?

I still don't buy that the island is sunk because that's def. not how Jack would imagine it, especially with the critical role he played in making sure its protected.
A case can kinda be made for the purgatory timeline being just Jack's but the fact that Desmond and Juliet catch a glimpse of it in their real life kinda makes that theory fall apart.
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05-24-2010 , 05:42 PM
opinion; the most pleasing way to interpret the ending is as a jack flashback, as he is dying, on his life. "this is the place you built together," "you couldn't have got here without them, they needed you and you need them," and "to help you remember, to help you let go" can all be interpreted symbolically. of course this interpretation doesn't mesh with the fact that this other reality has existed and flowed for quite some time and in some depth. but then again there really is no literal and rigorous interpretation which makes sense as it is a big ugly mix of an alternate reality, heaven, and flashback. this ending reminds me of kafka and could be pleasing if not for the fact that the show had pretenses to make more sense and explain all the weird stuff: unfortunately they could not.

but really it doesn't matter. lost was such a good show because of the flashbacks and the amazing characters. but they gave that up a long time ago in favor of tricks.
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05-24-2010 , 05:46 PM
assani, i completely agree, so many actions by the characters make absolutely no sense and this has been growing exponentially worse as the seasons come along and ended with it's own HBomb of the last show. this episode was the seasons best show though, fwiw, lol.
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05-24-2010 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagos
You were one of the people who hated Across the Sea and thought the show was doomed, right?

Not being sarcastic, genuinely curious cause I just personally haven't seen many people who hated s6 but enjoyed the finale. Most of the hate seems to be coming from people who have been bummed on the show for a season or more anyways.
Personally I was completely on board throughout s6, kinda was wavering but willing to give it a chance, tried to stay optimistic, then just broke at Across the Sea. I even defended the alt reality a good amount and found it interesting, but Across the Sea just affirmed some of my personal fears about where the show was going and that's where it 'lost' me.

Last edited by Fyte On; 05-24-2010 at 06:00 PM.
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05-24-2010 , 05:51 PM
^^Great post Assani.
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05-24-2010 , 05:55 PM
I read every LOST thread and have never felt the need to post, but towards the end of page 6 due to all the haters I was about to make my first LOST post, then this guy did it for me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek12
I thought the ending was really good. It made me realize that I didn't care about the island mysteries as much as I thought I did, and I cared about the characters more so.

I'm on board with those who think everything that happened on island was real, and that the alt. timeline was limbo. In fact, I think anyone who doesn't realize this either wasn't paying much attention or is a dumbass.
I thought the ending was extremely good, and fwiw if someone had told me a couple of days ago that no island mysteries would be solved and it would be a sappy love story/afterlife ending i would NOT have been happy, but I actually thought it was really well done.

I'm also pretty surprised at all the different interpretations of what happened, I personally thought they made it pretty clear what was going on (pretty much what the person who I quoted said).

Last edited by CanISayWanker; 05-24-2010 at 06:01 PM. Reason: changed perfect to extremely good
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05-24-2010 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTZ2
So in your opinion is this everybodys purgatory time line or is this just Jack's?

I still don't buy that the island is sunk because that's def. not how Jack would imagine it, especially with the critical role he played in making sure its protected. I mean why even show it at the bottom of the ocean if its no longer important, oh cause its fun to **** with us
This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagos
A case can kinda be made for the purgatory timeline being just Jack's but the fact that Desmond and Juliet catch a glimpse of it in their real life kinda makes that theory fall apart.
Plus, again, Christian said they all created it together.

I mean there is no doubt in my mind that shot was solely done to show something really cool at the start of the season and to add a bit of a red herring but it does have a logic to it in how they would conclude that.

Also this flash sideways stuff makes a LOT more sense now and is less of a random addition than it first seemed. Im sure ppl will disagree but whilst i think the show could have had a better last season im overall happy with the send off the show got, esp the finale which was a great 2 hours.
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05-24-2010 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neue Regel
that makes zero sense.
How does this not make sense? They are trying to create a reality in which they get find/be with all of these people who are so important to them, without all of the suffering. What is the component that causes their common suffering? THE ISLAND. How do we suppress the pain? BURY THE ****ER UNDER WATER. It's a pretty simple metaphor that has grounds in the real Lost universe, considering how Smokey indicates that the island could be destroyed by sinking it.

As much as Jack embraced his fate on the island, he still wanted to live a life without all of that pain (I mean he went as far as attempting to detonate a nuke to erase the anguish), he (along with everyone else) just wanted all of the people who suffered with him to be there, as well.
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05-24-2010 , 05:59 PM
I was one of the ones that hated season 6 and I really really enjoyed the finale. It finally made me realize to just enjoy the show instead of sitting and over analyzing everything. And yeah I know blah blah blah they lead us to believe this and that blah blah blah. I finally said f it, I dont care and am going to enjoy the show that I have loved for 6 years. It worked, I enjoyed and and im very very glad im not in the camp that is bitching like little 5 year old kids who dont get there way. Now, I can see why some people would not like the ending or the series in general, but for me its much better to just sit back and enjoy it.

I liked it and im very glad that I watched from the beginning. I doubt a show will entertain me more than this one did. I dont care if its not as "brilliant" as the other shows or finales listed in this thread, it was good enough for me. I have to stop reading this thread because its making me slowly hate life.
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05-24-2010 , 05:59 PM
Assani,

Decent enough post as far as the people who were upset with the finale. I liked s6 and am very happy with the conclusion, but I do think that perhaps the writers let some of the mysteries get out of control. Some of the key stuff never fully developed that I would have liked to have seen have better arcs for includes the Widmore story(which encompasses a lot of s4 and almost all the Sayid/Ben flashfowards), some Faraday physicist stuff (Did Ajira leave the island on the "right bearing"? lolz). All the stuff with the Others being hostile and such, I can pretty much make sense of.

That being said, I think a lot of mystery stuff in general was answered to a pretty satisfying degree. People are upset about some of the earlier seasons mysteries not being developed, I can understand that. But anyone who thinks the Jacob/MiB thing was not resolved to the fullest possible conclusion (of course you have to draw some of your own interpretations) is being a bit silly I think.

To comment on the character-driven vs mystery-driven aspect. I don't think "defenders" of the show are saying it was TOTALLY character-driven (I'm not anyways). Of course the mystery is what allows us to see these character undergo great changes. They had unfulfilled, sometimes even mundane normal lives before the island and this adventure they went on in a place of great mystery was the fuel for what made their characters go through some big changes. Yes, they did probably pile on a bit too much mystery, but I think that looking back on the show, it was just necessary in their eyes both before the show had an end date set and after. People were upset because new characters and mysteries were introduced this season (Dogen, Ilana, "claimed", "infected"). But it's just how they chose to get from point A to point B in a 14 hour storytelling timeframe. The mystery fueled the characters and they worked hand in hand.

You got everything you could have asked for in terms of character arcs imo, you just have to fill in some of the mystery yourself. I think that's why the people who liked it did. They were fine filling in the mystery stuff on their own interpretation as long as they got the character payoff. People who didn't seem to like how the show ended would have rather seen the mystery payoff with the characters being the sort of device that simply showed us the mystery.
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05-24-2010 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41
He's a man of faith. The deal with his dad's shoes. There were lots of times he just went with it even though he didn't really have any evidence that it would work. ie, the bomb.
What do you mean he didn't have any evidence? He had a time traveling physicist not only tell him that it would work, but how to do it.

This is exactly what I mean. Did Jack submit to "faith" or was he simply given enough evidence that the logical thing was to believe?
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