My problem is that somewhere along the way lost began as a show that was character and story driven (with constant MacGuffin's) and interesting twists on the plot line. And then essentially reached a "jumped the shark" moment where they ran out of plot and just threw in new twists to the point (while promising that they would resolve it and not just throw in a cop out) and maybe that resolution wasn't possible anymore and so then they just papered on some mystic stuff and resolved the characters that you care about in a happy feel good way.
but at the end of it all, it leaves you with sense of vague dissatisfaction because you'll never know the answers to the countless open hooks they created and story isnt complete in any meaningful way.
Last edited by AceofSpades; 05-24-2010 at 08:14 AM.
my problem is that somewhere along the way lost began as a show that was character and story driven (with constant MacGuffin's) and interesting twists on the plot line. And then essentially reached a "jumped the shark" moment where they ran out of plot and just threw in new twists to the point that resolution wasn't possible anymore and so then they just papered on some mystic stuff and resolved the characters.
Only there's a ton of evidence that the "mystic stuff" was planned the entire time.
I for one really enjoyed the finale and Lost as a whole. We definately haven't seen the end of Lost in the mainstream and no doubt there will be countless books/DVD extras/internet things that give us more answers/questions.
I'm the furthest thing from religious, but I don't get the hate for the heavily religious theme/message.
A. What did you expect?
B. Why are you willing to suspend disbelief with smoke monsters and time travel, but not faith or an afterlife?
This is a lot of my attitude towards it as well. It has been very clear for a long time that LOST was never going to get an "explanation" that would actually make sense of all the silly things that have gone on. It's also pretty clear in the end that much of the stuff along the way was either just a) misdirection, or b) them deciding they didn't have a good way to wrap things up. In the end, I don't particularly care, because I enjoyed the show anyway.
I think the setup where the flash-sideways was just them in the afterlife while the island activities were real was definitely a copout given the history and spirit of the show. And (though I'm mostly grunching this thread) I see there's a little discussion about whether or not island Desmond had seen the afterlife from the island, which is for me the big outstanding problem with that whole bit. However, having thought about it some more, provided that all the "hah, we're dead!" is confined to the flash-sideways (which I think is the case) then it is not so bad, as it doesn't really do much to contradict the entire run of the show. And if you've decided you're going to try to make a happy ending possible for most of the core cast (and you're also going to have the sideways world be conscious of the original island world, again to maximize happy reunions) then that's probably one of the easier ways to do it. Personally I don't think I would have found "IT'S MANY WORLDS QUANTUM MECHANICS GUYS" superior. (EDIT: Forgot to mention this, but handling happy endings solely through the flash sideways and not trying to merge the worlds or anything is actually a reasonable approach. It makes the stuff on the island more consequential and real, in some sense - the only people who get away are those on the Ajira flight. Unless that was Ajira wreckage at the very end.)
So, while I was kind of annoyed when Christian showed up to explain everything, I still think it was a solid, moving episode
so bad and lowers my overall opinion of lost by a good bit. but with how bad this and the last season had been a terrible conclusion was pretty inevitable
but hey, shrek 3 made 71 million dollars this weekend, so no surprise in people loving on this
I know, omg people are stupid. They didn't lay out every single answer for every little thing and you idiots still liked it? WHo wants to think or make their own interpretation? The kind of losers who would take their kids to Shrek, that's who!
B. Why are you willing to suspend disbelief with smoke monsters and time travel, but not faith or an afterlife?
It's not about being willing to suspend disbelief, it's that the show spent a great deal of time moving in the direction of hard sci fi in terms of explaining the island, and then transition to something that's a lot less satisfying. Time travel is something that theoretically could exist and has some foundation in reality. The afterlife, not so much. (and while I don't hate Smokey as a person, again, it was a lot more interesting to me when it was the island's defense system or any of the other possible explanations)
1- Hard sci fi makes sense to some extent- it doesn't always require raw suspension of disbelief to the degree that a fantasy/faith answer might. That's very appealing, especially on a show about Lost, that spend some time dropping clues and asking the audience to do research and figure out what was going on.
2- When you get into a show like this, and suddenly start throwing out God figures, the writing gets a lot more lazy. There's no more figuring out what happen, it's just LOL GOD DID IT. In part that's why people didn't get the answers they were looking for. Once the show became about magic holes and Gods and good vs evil- all the small stuff that made the show great because so inconsequential (and that was made very clear by the really unsatisfactory and gratuitous way some of the questions were answered).
3- The whole bit with the afterlife wasn't just bad because it was religious, it was bad because they dicked around with it the whole season, and it was a very unsatisfying resolution to everything they had Desmond doing. I'm not really sure how logically consistent most of the flash-sideways was if this was always where it was headed.
Again, most of the finale was fine, but the last 10 minutes just strikes me as so emblematic of the elements of the show that didn't work, and some of the really questionable plotting we saw.
if you had told me 2 seasons ago that the mythology would take giant back seat to character resolution in the finale, that would have been very disappointing to me. despite the fact that the finale provides warm and fuzzy character resolution, the writers completely quit on the mythology, and that is very dissapointing.
it feels good right now - but at this point I don't think I will go back and watch the series on DVD. I know that the giant mythology and island mysteries are answered, at best vaguely and at worst ignored, and that the final season is really just spent with our characters finding their way to heaven. the final season in many ways turned out not to be ABOUT all the preceding seasons, but about something very different. we spent half the season watching them in purgatory, jesus christ.
I now know that the writers threw out tons and tons of red herrings along the way to get people "thinking" and "theorizing" but in the island we still have no idea what the island really is or who "the good guys" were or why picture frames change in the background . and please don't tell me the show was never about that. from the start the show hooked people on smoke monsters and a hidden island and a snowglobe and #'s and somehow...the writers now want to tell us that stuff doesn't doesn't matter, it's the characters, stupid. well, I call BS.
the writers focused on character resolution b/c they knew that's all they could end wrap up in a satisfactory way. all of the earlier science driven stuff and quantum mechanics and having a physicist show up...well we're just gonna drop all that stuff.
to sum up: I was quite sure 2 or 3 years ago that when the series was done I would go back, rewatch, and see for the first time all the cool storylines unfold, knowing I know the resolution. now, I won't do that.
In fact, the whole Widmore/Ben thing is very near the top of my list of mysteries that I'm pissed will probably never be answered. I personally thought s4 introduced the most unanswered questions. I'm way more interested in Widmore/Ben, the frozen wheel and its relation to time travel and a bunch of the stuff Faraday talked about with regards to the right bearings and the island's relationship with time. Frankly, I'm surprised more people in this thread haven't cited that sort of stuff as opposed to stuff like Walt and Aaron and how old Adam and Eve's clothing was said to be. Again, if all that s4 stuff is left hanging by the end, then I'll be very disappointed. It'll be easier to comment on that at the conclusion of the series.
Island time - Jack dies and ends up along with Desmond defeating MIB and saving protecting the island. Hurley is the new Jacob with somewhat redeemed Ben being the new Richard...Rose, Bernard, Vincent, the Stewardess and the kids who scattered into the jungle when the artillery started falling probably joined them. Hurley now creates his own system/rules on the advise of Ben and Desmond goes home to Penny/Charlie.
As for the other people involved with Widmore...who knows.
Lapidus(he lives!), Kate, Sawyer, a now mortal Richard, Miles, Claire escape from the island on the airplane. Claire raises Aaron with help from Kate.
Alt Timeline aka purgatory - this exists after you die...may have some how been created by the bomb?(have to assume basic physics/reality/time etc may not exist here - Jack causes Charlie to have a vision or glimpse when he brings him back from death...Charlie glimpses their past life....then forces awake Desmond.
Jack also seems to be the only one to have physical manifestations of his prior life(the blood reappearing even though he isn't cut). Desmond being jolted by Widmore(cuz Widmore wants him to unplug the plug?) causes Desmond's alive consciousness to become aware of his non-alive consciousness and vice versa - Desmond also being exposed to the light prior in the hatch may be involved. Desmond begins helping the others see something. Not sure how Eloise knowing and possibly manipulating things is involved though she has been shown to do this in the past with Desmond (the wedding ring convo). Her worry that Desmond is going to take Daniel with him (and maybe not allow her to resolve her guilt? or allow him to be with Charlotte) is interesting. Def. seems like Faraday/Charlotte/Eloise are way more connected than how they are with the original 815ers...so kinda makes sense. Same with Ben/Alex/Rousseu.
The alt timeline/way station before whatever is next def. is confusing. I'm sure if Cuse and Lindeloff sat down for a podcast and explained things, like they probably did to the writers in the room when they were coming up with all this, it would make way more sense and certain things would fall into place...but then it wouldn't be LOST.
So it was flashbacks to the past, flashforwards to the near future, and then flashes to them after they died/were reincarnated/or created another timeline or consciousness that existed beyond their current one.
Only thing I wished for was one more scene with Desmond/Penny.
Got teary eyed a bunch of times. I wasn't angry or frustrated or even sad that LOST was over...was totally satisfied with the ending emotionally and character wise. Which is how it should be given it is the end. In hind sight it might not make all perfect sense...but in a world of smoke monsters, 1000 year old men, and time travel...it works for me.
Only really depressing thing is the 6 years ago I discovered this awesome show and my life was like a million times better and more hopeful than it is now lol.
Jack was my fav character besides Desmond and though it ended perfectly for him given it all started with him esp.
Anyways...what a ****ing sick ride.
I honestly totally expected to be disappointed with how they ended the characters stories after tonight.
Very few shows or even movies make you think and/or dream about such deep and interesting ideas/concepts all the while keeping you entertained and involved while creating great characters and story arcs.
Good write up - there were a couple words spoken when Jack was hugging Christian that I couldnt make out (even after a couple listens) - guess I'm kind of hoping Christian said something like "I'm proud of you" or something - anyone catch it?
Was trying to figure out why Jack had a kid but guess if it is purgatory in a sense and he needs to let go Jack def. had serious unresolved father issues, and by resolving the idea that he might end up like his father with his purgatory son, he let go of those issues.
exactly - in the purgatory - Jack was repeating the same mistakes his father had made....and he made the correction.
if the losties always set off the bomb, then the plane would have crashed in the s6 premier since the incident they created means the hatch was there and the same sequence of events would have happened again
they fact they did detonate the bomb means the Hatch was never built = no crash
the H-bomb was the incident...
they didn't crash at the s6 premier because they were all dead - and in purgatory.
the hatch was obviously built - sawyer dragged Juliette out of the wreckage of the hatch - caused by Desmond turning the fail safe key after Locke (the real one) smashed the computer.
I'm not a Lost watcher, I watched maybe the first 15 eps or so then ditched the show because it was moving too slowly and kept introducing zillions more characters rather than actually doing anything with the ones it had already introduced. Since then I've tried to keep abreast of the mythology in case I ever wanted to start watching it again, but it's been pretty messy so it's been tough. Now I'm trying to come to grips with the finale by reading reviews and reactions etc. So if I've misunderstood please correct me, but from what I understand so far this happened:
- Writers spend 5 seasons setting the island up as a huge mystery. Polar bears, secret hatches, smoke monsters, buttons that must be pressed, the Numbers, DHARMA initiative, that kind of thing. Lots of philosophy and science.
- In 6th season, writers introduce "Flash Sideways" alternate universe.
- In finale, writers resolve Flash Sideways as a kind of purgatory. Dismiss all the mysteries upon which the show is based as irrelevant. Cmon guys its all about THE CHARACTERS! Here, watch this slow-motion montage with stirring music!
Are you ****ing serious? I just don't understand how anyone is defending this. From a plot point of view, wouldn't it be possible to just chop out a season or three and get straight to this whole purgatory subplot? How does all the stuff that went on on the island actually matter at all? Don't you feel like the entire 6th season is just a bunch of cheap smoke and mirrors to distract you from the fact that the plot of the show as a whole doesn't have a conclusion?
Please feel free to tell me why I'm wrong, as I said I haven't watched any of this, but from what I've read it amazes me that anyone is defending this.