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***Official*** LOST: The End. ***Official*** LOST: The End.

05-26-2010 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halowax
I loved it because it made me HATE him and get satisfaction when he dies! One of the things I liked so much about the show is how much the writers manipulated our feelings about certain characters. I went from loving locke to hating him and thinking his a bumbling idiot to loving him again so many times. The same went for Jack. I started out completely despising him and eventually he became my favorite character. I started out liking Kate, and then ofc ended up wanting her to die at every possible moment. We start out thinking Sawyer is a villain, but he ends up being probably the most universally well liked character on the show, aside from desmond.

There aren't many shows that flip the audiences perspective on main characters so drastically. Usually, we know who we like and we stick with them. Lost was anything but.
But the characters never came across as people to me, just absurd caricature acting in ways that people would never act. There were too many flips just for the sake of flipping and it always came across as manipulation. They were not interesting people (in my book), and certainly not anyone I would ever want to run into. I thought the characters were the absolute worst part of the show and they interested me very little. They were decent vehicles for making interesting stories happen at times, but I didn't see them as anyone I actually related to or the sort. I just couldn't believe they were real people.
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05-26-2010 , 12:42 PM
People hate Kate?

Edit. I really don't think I would have been into the characters without the cool story to keep me super interested. Agree they were too over the top and were too much like caricatures. I *was* really impressed with how the characters allowed an exploration into the human condition on prime time network tv. Also, thinking the characters were really meh at the start makes me all the more happy that the writers tricked us into getting attached and watching the characters finding themselves and making real connections with other people.

Last edited by sufur; 05-26-2010 at 12:49 PM.
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05-26-2010 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
The biggest Lost moment for me was clearly "WE HAVE TO GO BAAAAAAAAAACK!". Totally was the peak of lost, and very ironic that it was at the end of season 3. Also loved Desmond's flashes through his life. The other huge moment was dumping Locke's body on the beach after he get's Ben to kill Locke. Two huge reveal "OMG" moments. That's what made the show for me.

I really didn't that huge emotional connection with the characters many did. And it's not because I am not capable of it, I still get teary eyed when I watch the ending to Six Feet Under. I just didn't ever really care about them that much. Can't put my finger on why. I can understand for the people who did get all emotionally involved why they might like the ending, but I just never really cared that much about them. My interest in Lost was almost entirely on the WTF moments and cool one-off stories (The Long Con being my favorite example).

I am shocked anyone actually liked Michael's annoying ass quest for WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT! It's things like these that made me detest the characters and cheer when they died. Kate and her neverending annoyance, Sun being totally useless, Claire and her beeehbeee, Jack being a general douche and annoying, Locke being a bumbling idiot screwing everything up, and all the various redshirts who served no purpose. In the end, I cared about none of the characters. Not sure why that is, but that's a huge part of why the super cheesy sappy ending was just awful. But for the All My Children and General Hospital fans, I can see why it was OMG AWESOME.

your favorite part was the scene where jack declares they have to go back, but you hate everything that happens after they go back?

did you really think jack was going to try and discover teh secrets of the dharma initiative or something? he accomplished what he set out to do in the first place, minus a few characters. lost since that moment has always been about saving and/or reuniting the remaining characters on the island.

i mean the whole freaking story alternated telling different characters stories each episode and revealing the dark secrets of their lives, and the redemption process for those that have "sinned". i think its a complete fail to expect the writers to be more interested in mythology than characters.
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05-26-2010 , 12:55 PM
Great find by thedoctor in the lounge thread on LOST:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor
Here's a very interesting explanation from a 'Lost' writer on the entire series. I pulled this from lostpedia, not sure where is came from. All below is a direct quote.

Orignal Post

I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ... The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

- Desmond, Penny, and Juliet are post first season characters present in the church, though that may simply mean they were always intended to be major characters.

 Desmond is pivotal to the series, so yeah. Penny and Juliet surely were conceived from the beginning to be Desmond and Sawyer's soulmates respectively. Anyhow, I find very interesting the part about MiB corrupting Ben and manipulating him to get rid of DHARMA. It goes well with the small puzzling reflection Ben makes back at his home: "I thought I was summoning him and it turned out it was him summoning me all the time."
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05-26-2010 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesmondHume
Top Series I've seen in my lifetime (non comedies) - if we are just talking network TV then LOST goes to #1. 24 would normally be on here but like the last 2-3 years killed it for me post David Palmer.
I'm only including series that have concluded.

1. The Wire (5 Seasons) - Cable
2. LOST (6 Seasons) - Network
3. Sopranos (5 Season) - Cable
4. The Shield (6 Seasons) - Cable
5. Six Feet Under ( 5 Seasons ) - Cable
6. Buffy ( 7 Seasons) - Cable
7. The West Wing -mainly the Bartlett years - (7 Seasons) - Network
8. Angel ( 5 Seasons) - Network
9. Firefly - really shouldn't be on here given how short it lasted but whatever - ( 1 Season) - Network
10. The X-Files - went to **** once DD left - (9 Seasons) - Network
Buffy was a network show. Admittedly, the WB and UPN were very much tier 2 networks, but then so was Fox once.
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05-26-2010 , 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TomCollins
But the characters never came across as people to me, just absurd caricature acting in ways that people would never act. There were too many flips just for the sake of flipping and it always came across as manipulation. They were not interesting people (in my book), and certainly not anyone I would ever want to run into. I thought the characters were the absolute worst part of the show and they interested me very little. They were decent vehicles for making interesting stories happen at times, but I didn't see them as anyone I actually related to or the sort. I just couldn't believe they were real people.
I mean, I will admit there wasn't anywhere near the character development as in the hyperreal shows such as The Wire, or SFU (from what I hear; I have only seen the finale, and I cried not knowing who anyone was). Having said that, I really didn't think the characters were that far fetched for the circumstances they endured. Sometimes their lines very extremely kitchy, but I found their motivations to be completely realistic considering the trials they faced in their life.

I think Jack was a very realistic character and do not find him to be shell like in the least. The same goes for Desmond. I think Charlie was pretty legit, as well, and I thought Locke, Ben, and Juliet were all very well developed, consistent characters. Sawyer seemed the most far fetched, although, I imagine it is very hard for many of us to relate his experience. Sayid was def a characiture, though they still gave him a pretty legit back story to explain his existence, and it was worth it for all the badassitude. Kate obv was a massive fail.

If anything, I think the dialogue detracted from the depth of character, but their motivations and resultant action seemed pretty consistent, and I think rather realistic considering the universe they live in.
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05-26-2010 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whereswallaceat
Great find by thedoctor in the lounge thread on LOST:
Yo, your screen name is awesome, but you are super SLOW PONY on that one, by a few hundred posts.
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05-26-2010 , 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halowax
Yo, your screen name is awesome, but you are super SLOW PONY on that one, by a few hundred posts.
Hah yeah I haven't gotten around to reading this thread yet so I figured it might have been posted already.. oh well, pretty interesting read..
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05-26-2010 , 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tubasteve
your favorite part was the scene where jack declares they have to go back, but you hate everything that happens after they go back?

did you really think jack was going to try and discover teh secrets of the dharma initiative or something? he accomplished what he set out to do in the first place, minus a few characters. lost since that moment has always been about saving and/or reuniting the remaining characters on the island.

i mean the whole freaking story alternated telling different characters stories each episode and revealing the dark secrets of their lives, and the redemption process for those that have "sinned". i think its a complete fail to expect the writers to be more interested in mythology than characters.
I enjoyed it because I didn't see it coming and it was pretty awesome because even subtle stuff I noticed along the way didn't completely tip me off (the newer cellphones used, for example). I was somewhat curious why he wanted to go back after getting off the island as well. It opened a lot of possibilities and totally fooled me (cleverly). Of course, knowing what I know now, it takes a lot away from that, but at the time I was so blown away by how awesome it was.

Now you may have enjoyed it, but I'm just giving the perspective of what motivated me to watch the show and what was interesting. Getting into nitty gritty details about the mythology didn't interest me that much, but of course was interesting. But using the plot to tie things up could have been done better. There were too many loose ends, red herrings, and things abandoned to actually make it an interesting story. Again, I don't give a damn about the characters because they did not come across as believable, likable, or interesting. You may have, and that's fine.

It's not that I didn't enjoy Season 4 or 5, I did. There were some awesome moments, most importantly the entire plot to kill Jacob. I found that plot to be extremely well done and it gave me very high hopes for the final season. It made me think they had a plan as complex as MIB's plan to kill Jacob. I just think that the end of Season 3 was the peak of the show. It was a fun ride, but ultimately went nowhere. My tastes really come down to a well crafted story where every piece serves a purpose leading us down the path at the end. Now it was a fun journey, but there's absolutely no reason for me to go back and watch it again and try to appreciate it. The ride is over and not the same the second time. But there are plenty of things I will watch many times and appreciate over and over. I just can't see Lost being one of them and I can't see really recommending it to people.
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05-26-2010 , 01:38 PM
+1 on great screen name but you need some kind of d'angelo avatar
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05-26-2010 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
I enjoyed it because I didn't see it coming and it was pretty awesome because even subtle stuff I noticed along the way didn't completely tip me off (the newer cellphones used, for example). I was somewhat curious why he wanted to go back after getting off the island as well. It opened a lot of possibilities and totally fooled me (cleverly). Of course, knowing what I know now, it takes a lot away from that, but at the time I was so blown away by how awesome it was.

Now you may have enjoyed it, but I'm just giving the perspective of what motivated me to watch the show and what was interesting. Getting into nitty gritty details about the mythology didn't interest me that much, but of course was interesting. But using the plot to tie things up could have been done better. There were too many loose ends, red herrings, and things abandoned to actually make it an interesting story. Again, I don't give a damn about the characters because they did not come across as believable, likable, or interesting. You may have, and that's fine.
coolness. for what its worth i rewatched s1 and most of s2 before sunday, so i was probably more in tune with the themes (free will/fate/faith/science) and character interrelations presented earlier in the show before the writers had to stall and add random storyline due to network executive pressure/not knowing how long the show would be/etc.


if lost had been an HBO show, i can't even imagine how good it would have been.
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05-26-2010 , 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AlexM
How many people does someone have to murder before they become bad in your eyes? MiB is well beyond the limit of say 1 that most people set. I'm guessing Hitler doesn't seem bad to you, just angry?
Right, but how many people's deaths did Jacob play a part in? He was essentially sacrificing people, "they needed to die because..."

There's also a legit line of thought that, unless it was just a story telling inconsistency, Jacob played a (potentially heavy) part in the mass murder of the Dharma people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coff
Lol food drops, who cares.

I just rewatched the last episode again last night and loved it even more than the first time. You people need to get a life.
lol

In seriousness, we get that you liked it, that's fine, no one is trying to make you dislike it or insult you for being satisfied. But you do need to realize that there are a lot of people with legit qualms about how the show ended, more specifically the direction they chose to go in the end. I also think that for the most part people are keeping the end in perspective- being critical without saying 'zomg worst show ever.'
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05-26-2010 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
They explained the Numbers 4 or 5 years ago, they just didn't do it in the show. Anyone who doesn't expect and accept that a show like this in the 21st century is going to have tie-ins to their Internet site is pretty absurd.
there have been some pretty dumb posts in this thread but this one in particular really is quite extraordinary.

OPINION; people who like lost are dumb. there have been an impressively large number of people who have said something very close to, "you just wanted answers spoon fed to you, and that's not what this show is about. if you don't get this show, i honestly feel sorry for you." yet, perhaps not too surprisingly, their comments apply so much more to themselves than to people who didn't like lost, the people who actually understand what a good story is.
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05-26-2010 , 02:20 PM
sayid whats your favorite novel?
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05-26-2010 , 02:21 PM
do you people even know what a character driven story is? that is what lost was in the beginning. when entire shows were centered around ben manipulating people, jack defending his people verse ben using reason and intelligence, and locke going his own way because of faith. when they found the hatch it was just chilling out there, and it was all the characters personalities that drove them to interact with it and for things to happen.

now do you know what a ******ed story is? that is one in which one of the main characters, who is god like, throws his brother down into hell, not because that is what his pathetic, mild, coward like character would do - but because he has to to push the story forward. or one in which ben repents his life's work and character of 50 years, the work he was so dedicated to he sacrificed his own daughter without even considering it, not because it was a natural development of his character, but because he has to be reformed to fit in with how the lost creators imagined the show to go.

it is especially unfortunate that the lost creators are so stupid, or lazy off of their money, that they imagined the show going to such a lame place.
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05-26-2010 , 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TomVeil
Exactly. Nobody talks about the end of the Star Wars saga imo.
The Ewoks were pretty silly, but I didn't mind them SO much.
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05-26-2010 , 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by teh_minbet_pokr
IMO this is where poor writing has left a pretty questionable plothole...

Christian does clearly state that the losties created this "place" so they could meet up and move on together.

however Ben is very deliberately aware, he clearly has flashbacks when desmond pummels him.
Yes, Ben was part of it. He is not, however, ready to move on. This has been explained at least a dozen times ITT.
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05-26-2010 , 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sufur
Some of the people still discussing food drops have to be leveling, right? I mean, so insignificant and there's been, at least, one logical explanation. Ben has a ton of money at his disposal, Ben keeps paying for/arranging ahead of time (doesn't need to be 30 yrs ahead, lol) the food drops.
Why? Does he even know about the Hatch? The food drops were specifically for the people living in the Hatch.
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05-26-2010 , 02:40 PM
I really enjoyed the Sopranos ending but it was in part because deep down I really didn't give a **** about any of the characters. I would have been fine with any of Tony's family living or getting wacked.

So maybe it all comes down to how well you emotionally connected with the main characters in terms of how you viewed the show and the finale.

I was heavily invested in the characters and their journey so this was the perfect way to end things while also including some of the spiritual/philosophical themes that LOST loved to play with.
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05-26-2010 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whereswallaceat
Hah yeah I haven't gotten around to reading this thread yet so I figured it might have been posted already.. oh well, pretty interesting read..
Where the **** is wallace??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrSy9r0-lMg
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05-26-2010 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayid_the_saviour
now do you know what a ******ed story is? that is one in which one of the main characters, who is god like, throws his brother down into hell, not because that is what his pathetic, mild, coward like character would do - but because he has to to push the story forward. or one in which ben repents his life's work and character of 50 years, the work he was so dedicated to he sacrificed his own daughter without even considering it, not because it was a natural development of his character, but because he has to be reformed to fit in with how the lost creators imagined the show to go.
Lolwat?

Jacob throwing his brother into the light makes perfect sense. He is as confused as humanly possible about what his job is, a job he was never intended to have, given to him by a crazy mother who loved his brother more, who just died at the hands of his superior brother... all he knows is that something terrible would happen to him if he went down there, and he wants something terrible to happen to his brother, because he needs vengance and wants to prove that he is not as weak as they thought.

He has absolutely no clue what he is doing, and is in a fit of hysteria. There is no reason for him to know what would actually happen, and there is surely part of him that doesn't even trust his mother. Not to mention that weak people commit crimes of passion all the time. He was acting completely irrationally... and that's why the story is totally rational. How do you not get that?

As far as Ben goes, HE DID NOT SACRIFICE HIS DAUGHTER. He was 100% convinced that she would not be killed. When she dies, this is the catalyst for him repenting his life's work. But in time, he ultimately returns to that same position, or one better (Richards), as a stronger, slightly more well adjusted man.

I'm sorry, but both Ben and Jacob's motivations make 100% sense... and if you can't grasp that... sorry about it?

Last edited by Halowax; 05-26-2010 at 03:03 PM. Reason: How are people so bad at Lost?
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05-26-2010 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whereswallaceat
Great find by thedoctor in the lounge thread on LOST:
I originally saw that quote here in this thread - then later in this thread someone pointed us toward a buffalo bills post where it would seem that post originated...

since then - the op of that thread on the bills forum has said this:

"Apparently it's gone out wider than I ever intended. And it's being misconstrued as being from the writers of the show (on other sites I guess). Which I'm not. I just wrote it up for our little community here of Bills fans and forgot that we're actually a part of a way bigger internet community. I don't want people reading it and assumming it's THE answer or from the mouths of the show. It's just my take on it. Didn't want people to get the wrong idea.

Did not mean to cause a firestorm at all ... my apologies."
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05-26-2010 , 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warchant09
Where the **** is wallace??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrSy9r0-lMg
Wallace didn't matter. It was just a trick to get Jack to the lighthouse and to realize his importance.
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05-26-2010 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayid_the_saviour
do you people even know what a character driven story is? that is what lost was in the beginning. when entire shows were centered around ben manipulating people, jack defending his people verse ben using reason and intelligence, and locke going his own way because of faith. when they found the hatch it was just chilling out there, and it was all the characters personalities that drove them to interact with it and for things to happen.

now do you know what a ******ed story is? that is one in which one of the main characters, who is god like, throws his brother down into hell, not because that is what his pathetic, mild, coward like character would do - but because he has to to push the story forward. or one in which ben repents his life's work and character of 50 years, the work he was so dedicated to he sacrificed his own daughter without even considering it, not because it was a natural development of his character, but because he has to be reformed to fit in with how the lost creators imagined the show to go.

it is especially unfortunate that the lost creators are so stupid, or lazy off of their money, that they imagined the show going to such a lame place.
Was going to reply, but Halowax did a great job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halowax
Lolwat?

Jacob throwing his brother into the light makes perfect sense. He is as confused as humanly possible about what his job is, a job he was never intended to have, given to him by a crazy mother who loved his brother more, who just died at the hands of his superior brother... all he knows is that something terrible would happen to him if he went down there, and he wants something terrible to happen to his brother, because he needs vengance and wants to prove that he is not as weak as they thought.

He has absolutely no clue what he is doing, and is in a fit of hysteria. There is no reason for him to know what would actually happen, and there is surely part of him that doesn't even trust his mother. Not to mention that weak people commit crimes of passion all the time. He was acting completely irrationally... and that's why the story is totally rational. How do you not get that?

As far as Ben goes, HE DID NOT SACRIFICE HIS DAUGHTER. He was 100% convinced that she would not be killed. When she dies, this is the catalyst for him repenting his life's work. But in time, he ultimately returns to that same position, or one better (Richards), as a stronger, slightly more well adjusted man.

I'm sorry, but both Ben and Jacob's motivations make 100% sense... and if you can't grasp that... sorry about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
Why? Does he even know about the Hatch? The food drops were specifically for the people living in the Hatch.
I see no reason to think Ben was unaware of the hatch and every reason to assume he was (lol, that is if I'm remembering the stations' video feeds properly!). Also, making sure the button was pressed seems really important. Okay, now I'm confusing myself. Don't remember the hatch stuff clearly now so someone else can handle this one. :P If it's clear Ben didn't know about the hatch then another simple explanation (for a ***** super insignificant piece of the story) is Jacob arranged for the drops because he needed Desmod there to screw up and bring the plane down, etc.
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-26-2010 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
Wallace didn't matter. It was just a trick to get Jack to the lighthouse and to realize his importance.
Awesome.

Last edited by sufur; 05-26-2010 at 03:20 PM. Reason: +1 to props for screenname
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote

      
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