well, we are still talking about it. And people I work with are still having arguments/discussions about what every little thing meant. You don't really get that if the ending had neatly explained every little mystery that was presented the last 6 years.

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by wholecut
questions that we have no clue about, some more important than others


- pregnancy problems
not explained but inferred when it started just after Jacob was born, indicating the Mother created the problems in the same way as the rules
[/QUOTE]

Didn't Juliet help birth Ethan when she went back in time to Dharmaville?

Yes. Also Aaron was born on the island.

Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret

This was the four toe statue.

Artz was going to see a chick he had met online.

She really had a piece of his heart!



Specifically that one!

And the skeletons in the pit. There is a ton of avenues for a movie or other stuff.

Was there more than 1 skeleton? I only saw one and assumed it was MIB's actual body.

OMG INSIDE THE FIRE! IT'S...LIKE AN EEVEE OR SOMETHING HANDING US FLOWERS! What can it mean!??!?!

sigh, lost (shazaaam) the quotes the above quotes refer to. But this is a good post.

This is kinda the point, imo. You were tricked, we were all tricked, into focusing on the mystery all the while getting attached to the characters. No way a network show will let us get invested in characters without them being big cliches and lame. Can't think of another spiritual/faith based network (non-network?) show that doesn't absolutely suck. Despite all the apparent flaws (I'm def with the people that think almost every flaw was pretty minor and most things were explained well enough) you still liked it. I'm not sure at what point they decided what the focus of the show would be. I'm pretty sure, at the very least, they planned to have human nature/character development play a way bigger role then it appeared to play.

Personally, I was initially really disappointed. It was late so I soon went to bed, before falling asleep I accepted the story made sense and the finale "worked". I woke up thnking about the show and almost immediately started really liking it. I kept liking it more and more as I thought about it and I keep liking it even more as I read others' views on why it was or wasn't good.

You'll realise this is silly in 3...2...1...

(Adam and Eve)

I thought they were obviously previous islanders trying to sneak into the light and getting zapped.

Why was Aaron in the church and who awoke him? Wouldn't he have been like a 2 or 3 year old trapped inside the body of a day old baby? And why was the island the most important part of his life?? He may have effected a lot of things that happened but he wouldn't even remember any of it since he was so young

^ nit i know but there are sooooo many contradictions, loopholes and unexplained events in this series. i'm glad i watched it but feel just as scammed as i did with the sopranos finale

this!

it seems like everyone was how Jack remembered them from the island
hence Charlie(baby) not appearing to be there.

Also Bill Simmons in his podcast basically summed it up well. It was a flawed show but only because it strived to be so much more than your typical network drama. If they had spent a couple of years planning it all out and perfecting all 6 seasons prior to starting it probably would have been the greatest of all time. Despite it's flaws it's still was amazing and a Top 5 or 10 show of all time.

He did argue that anyone who says that they wouldn't do it all over again after seeing the finale should be banned from being allowed to watch tv lol

grunching most of this.

i was really moved by the final ep, despite being somewhat frustrated / distracted by a lot of season 6 and the time travel stuff in general. i think it helped me refocus on the fact that the characters really drove the show for me, and what made a lot of the mysteries compelling was the extraordinary situations in which characters were placed and how they reacted and developed over time.

the relative lack of answers (or refusal to completely spell them out, anyway) was almost a more compelling twist than any wild science fiction ending. i think 99% of viewers were expecting that the island-time chronology would at some point turn out not to be "real" or that the events would be explained by some grand unifying theory. certainly not that they should have been taken at face value. i thought the way christian ties it all up for jack was really elegant.

basically we all spent a huge chunk of the show waiting for the other shoe to drop, and a big overarching message of the show ended up being that too many people spend their lives waiting for an answer that won't come. the ending challenges the viewer in the same way that the events of the show challenged the characters.

Well yeah I meant in the actual well or hole or whatever

[x] still doesn't get it

hint: who did Adam and Eve turn out to be and why does that prove that the skeleton in the well wasn't smokey?

I liked the resolution, though I didn't like the finale. It just wasn't a good episode imo. Also, I am annoyed at some of the unanswered questions, though I knew there would be many, and am more annoyed at the questions that seems to be left with the "we have to assume it's cause Jacob said so" answer.

In any event, a very cool last 10 minutes. A pretty crummy end to the series as a whole.

Also, the character-argument apologists could not be more wrong. Yes, it's a character based show, pretty much every show is, who cares?

How I Met Your Mother is a character based show.

Regardless of the quality of the show, we can agree that HIMYM is about the characters. It's not really about how the guy meets the kids' mom, it's about the characters and their relationships and such.

That said, if the creators tell us today the show will end in 3 years. That they have x hours remaining to tell the story however they please, capped with a 2.5 hour finale, and then at the end of it all, we don't find out who the mother is or how the narrator met her - we can agree that would be ****ing stupid, right?

I mean, none of you people would show up and say "but it's about the characters not the search for the mom!", right?

Good, moving on.

2 - Do other people in alternate universe/purgatory exist?

My theory is that they don't.

Purgatory is a construct of the Losties, they created it to meet up, as Christian suggests. The walls of the church aren't real, neither are the people other than the Losties.

A work friend and I were debating this. He suggested that actually the people do exist, they are the spirits of their real world counter parts. This, in his view, is why Ben does not want to leave, he wants to stay with his daughter and stay in purgatory.

My view is that the world is a construct and unravels the moment the Losties walk into the light and move on. Ben is not going to stay with his daughter, he just doesn't get to go to heaven, at least not yet. Purgatory will not continue to exist after Jack and co. let go.

The people are all constructs - the piece of evidence that makes this necessary, imo, is Jack's son. Jack does not have a son, as we know and Locke points out. His son is a construct, no less than the church walls. There is no real world alternative. He will not continue to exist after Jack moves on.

I don't think some of the non-Losties were fake and some real. Perhaps, but I feel like it must be one or the other, and since Jack's son MUST be fake, it follows imo that everyone is.

It's subject to debate though.

the mother was essentially explained - she was like Jacob, MIB, Richard, Losties, and who ever followed Hurley, ...she arrived on the island by accident and came to be the new protector.

-I mean think how long it would take to explain how Hurley became the protector to some dude that came after him lol. He'd just be like "Dude! it's way to long of a story, just drink the damn water"

I'd argue against it all vanishes because Eloise is aware prior to Desmond and has been (it seems) possibly trying to prevent the Losties from waking up. It could just be that everything tied to Jack, or Kate, or Sawyer ceases to be and the other people exist in their own construct.

Only the writers can really answer it and I'm sure they probably disagree with each other, its the after life after all

i don't really think comparing lost to how i met your mother as a critique of the "character" argument is sensible at all. aside from the obvious differences between the scope and subject matter of those two shows, there are lots of examples of films or TV shows where you don't get all the answers. both are plausible outcomes. if you are just watching a show or movie or reading a book because you demand a conclusive narrative, that's a pretty narrow concept of what makes a "good" show. it's like going to see waiting for godot and complaining that we never find out who godot is. i mean, it's in the title, right?

lol really? and you said i needed everything spelled out for me?

well here you go...

-jacob drags MIB to the stream/light/cave
-jacob throws MIB into the stream facefirst
-unconcious MIB floats into the cave/light
-black smoke flies out of the cave/light into the jungle
-jacob attempts to follow the smoke
-jacob stops at a stream and drinks water, sees MIBs lifeless body
-jacob takes MIB's body to cave and lays it to rest with Mother.
-Jack/Kate/Locke find "Adam and Eve" in the cave

so no, the skeleton in the well/hole/heart of the island is not MIB

I'm not demanding a conclusive narrative at all, in fact I'm happy with the conclusion of Lost, just thought the final episode could have been a lot better.

I think the comparison is perfectly apt. Both shows are about the characters and their relationships with one and other, but both examine those relationships under the guise of investigating a mystery set up in season 1 episode 1.

It doesn't matter how good the journey, how interesting the characters, concluding the series without satisfying that mystery is a huge letdown, it has to be.

If someone were to come up to me and tell me that the resolution of Lost sucked and that the unanswered questions make it stupid I would disagree strongly with them and could (imo) advance a strong argument in favour of my position.

My argument, however, would not include the "it's a character based show!" premise, cause that premise is stupid.

Dear god, that's stupid.

Too many beers