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***Official*** LOST: The End. ***Official*** LOST: The End.

05-25-2010 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kos13
This is probably a re-post, but just in case it isn't...

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291
I like how it pokes fun at the mystery of "What's the deal with Jack's tattoo's?" then proceeds to ask a whole bunch of questions that are basically as important as Jack's tattoo's.
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05-25-2010 , 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Maridu
How did they not mention what Sawyer whispered to Kate in the season 4 finale when he jumps out of the chopper? Wasn't that supposed to be something important? Not just "I love you freckles let's bone".
Sawyer told Kate about his daughter. It was revealed in the show IIRC. I think when Kate goes to the chicks house.
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05-25-2010 , 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Vagos
I like how it pokes fun at the mystery of "What's the deal with Jack's tattoo's?" then proceeds to ask a whole bunch of questions that are basically as important as Jack's tattoo's.
I think it's more making fun of the show for sucking for wasting time covering that and not anything that actually is important. That episode is pretty much the entire MO, but condensed to one episode. If there is one episode that pretty much described the overall depth of Lost, it would be that episode.
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05-25-2010 , 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TomCollins
Sawyer told Kate about his daughter. It was revealed in the show IIRC. I think when Kate goes to the chicks house.
oh ya true... lol i forgot about that. Meh...
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05-25-2010 , 06:32 PM
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maridu
But I think the others had purpose as in becoming MIB's family once he deserted Jacob/Mother, showing there had been others since forever, etc. LOL, am I dumb for not knowing what the "Tailies" are (ohhh, is it people from the tail? Ha, I'm stoopid!). I guess the tailies (if I'm correct in thinking they are from the TAIL lol) were there to bring the "others" more into the story and create some type of division between the 2 wrecked sections of the island, also for Hurley+Blonde crazy woman to get together. And season 2 is Bakes favorite cuz of the hatch thing, the button thing, Desmond and Ecko (my fave character on Lost, well after Hurley and Sawyer) - I rly did think Ecko had a bigger part in all of this. I think Dharma was sorta left behind too, but fine I can deal with that (even though there was awesomeness to be made from that if they wanted). Time travel. Island shifting/sinking. So much...

How did they not mention what Sawyer whispered to Kate in the season 4 finale when he jumps out of the chopper? Wasn't that supposed to be something important? Not just "I love you freckles let's bone".

Again, I liked the last ep., I get it, even though I'm not a fan of them "preaching", it's kinda condescending with the viewer and stand-offish with their own show and all the mysteries they created in past seasons (amazing mysteries for that matter that imo deserved more attention, I'm not even saying an explanation of black and white, but at least some love shown to these amazing mysteries they created) instead of create an ENTIRE new thing that had never been a part of the show like the alt. reality which was a waste of time (but if they had no other way to get out of their writing corner, it should've been done MUCH faster/better), episodes should've been shown in different order, and Widmore's character was useless for the entire series - and the temple just makes me LOL at how BAD they were doing in the beginning. I just think that season 6 could've been done in a much better way for the show and for the fans, with a much more satisfying outcome (not that I need to be spoon fed answers or whatever, it just could've been so good, and resolved in this world, not in some other world, then go to wonderland or whatever and dance with Michael Jackson).

But lol for some reason I still liked the last ep.
Saywer had a daughter that he wanted Kate to visit and make sure she taken care of financially. Kate had already met her, the gold chain con.
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05-25-2010 , 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Semtex
The way I understand it, non-linear time allows for time travel. But here we are talking about every person in the alt-timeline not only perceiving the progression of time at a different rate from everyone else, but having those rates arbitrarily speed up and slow down independent of each other. After they all get on Oceanic 815 in the alttimeline, time flows in a uniform fashion for all of them, even though supposedly before that it wasn't flowing at all, or at different rates, or whatever Christian meant by time not existing there. I just don't think you can explain all of that by "time is non-linear LDO."
Time slows to nothing as you approach the core of a black hole. When you speed up the contents of what is moving actually travels slower in time (this was proven using atomic clocks on commercial flights btw). Stephen Hawking even perceives that time can reverse itself when the "time arrow" can point the other way (such as the events of a big crunch).

When bodies in space can independently experience time and where there is no single "clock" where everything is moving relative to it then you can have a situation as the purgatory waiting room indicates.

The problem isnt that it makes no sense, its just that you dont understand it.
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05-25-2010 , 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cres
Semtex, this show, and many of the genre, require the viewer to suspend the need for hard facts and Scientific Laws. Time is non-linear is the perfect explanation for the viewer to watch the show unfold. Even if you don't believe it.
Yeah I know. I just need logical explanations. It's not even about science. You can make up your own science. Just have some kind of consistency. When things get completely arbitrary and there is no logic whatsoever outside of "hey they are in purgatory things don't have to make any sense" is when I start to have a problem.
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05-25-2010 , 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by [Phill]
The show was never about the answers, it was always about the questions and it was always about interpreting our own answers.
this is obviously false. it doesn't even make sense. the whole series up until S6 was about presenting interwoven mysteries and gradually revealing very specific answers, and as the article says promising more. there was no room for personal interpretation.

really you're just making an excuse for the lame way the show ended.
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05-25-2010 , 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by [Phill]
As someone (Code iirc) said already and as i said at some point im 99% sure Jacob saved Sayid as he had a purpose on the island and he was meant to die in that car crash. Whether the story Ben told about Widmore killing Nadia (and trying to kill Sayid too) i have no clue. That is another pick your poison whether Ben faked the evidence or of Widmore really wanted Sayid dead.

Either it was an accident where they were both meant to die or it was a terrible assassination where Sayid was the target and Nadia was collateral damage.

This is absolutely not the case. Sayid being the target of an assassination directed by Widmore is completely contrary to his motivations of getting them back to the Island. Also, Widmore already knows that Sayid cannot be killed because he was on the island in 77 and shoots Ben, goes with Ellie to get Jughead, etc. Nadia had to be the intended target.


Widmore also makes no attempts to harm any of the other members of the Oceanic 6 or their loved ones. I am convinced that there is no logic to it, and it was simply a device to turn Sayid back in to a badass assasin and provide some melodrama.
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05-25-2010 , 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Halowax
This is absolutely not the case. Sayid being the target of an assassination directed by Widmore is completely contrary to his motivations of getting them back to the Island. Also, Widmore already knows that Sayid cannot be killed because he was on the island in 77 and shoots Ben, goes with Ellie to get Jughead, etc. Nadia had to be the intended target.


Widmore also makes no attempts to harm any of the other members of the Oceanic 6 or their loved ones. I am convinced that there is no logic to it, and it was simply a device to turn Sayid back in to a badass assasin and provide some melodrama.
Nice catch, forgot entirely that he would (probably) recognise the Oceanic 6 and not go after them.

In that case it looks like a random car accident and Ben just spun the story to get Sayid to perform some hits on Widmore's men.
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05-25-2010 , 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by [Phill]
Time slows to nothing as you approach the core of a black hole. When you speed up the contents of what is moving actually travels slower in time (this was proven using atomic clocks on commercial flights btw). Stephen Hawking even perceives that time can reverse itself when the "time arrow" can point the other way (such as the events of a big crunch).

When bodies in space can independently experience time and where there is no single "clock" where everything is moving relative to it then you can have a situation as the purgatory waiting room indicates.

The problem isnt that it makes no sense, its just that you dont understand it.
No it still doesn't make sense. I know about the twins paradox and all of that, trust me. Here though basically they were all going through time at different rates that were all arbitrarily converging on them meeting on Oceanic 815 in Purgatory at the same time and at the same individual age as when they all separated, even though that could have been thousands of years apart. At this point they would all start going through time at the same rate for no reason. Basically something along the lines of it was their destiny to all meet up in Purgatory. But that would mean the only point of Purgatory was for them to meet up in it and remember their past why even go through all the drama let them all just wake up in the church and take the next step
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05-25-2010 , 06:47 PM
I think this show clearly thrived more on the collective fervid imaginations of its viewers than any well-posed grand narrative given by the writers. If you want to see the bright side in that you can always argue that the journey was more important than the finale.
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05-25-2010 , 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ConstantineX
If you want to see the bright side in that you can always argue that the journey was more important than the finale.
+1. Best journey in TV history I think. Writers definitely got a little too ambitious though there was no way in hell they were going to be able to satisfactorily wrap things up
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05-25-2010 , 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ianlippert
Obviously Lost had amazing actors and really solid character development. But some people watched it more for the mystery island aspects and those people got ripped off, theres nothing wrong with these people being pissed. If you were watching it more for the characters stories then thats great for you, you got a really satisfying ending.

But Lost used to be able to deliver to those of us watching it for the mystery. I was barely interested in Season 1 but I had to keep watching to find out about the hatch. What turned me into a Lost viewer was that they were actually able to deliver the AHA moment when they opened the hatch. Season 2 and 3 were some amazing television, 4 was pretty good too. But once they brought in all that time travel crap they really lost any over arching goal to the show. They had mostly blown their load at that point and had no actual plan to conclude the series. So we got a bunch of meandering around the island. Its no wonder the final episode didnt resolve anthing, there was no real major plot points that needed resolving!

I'd say seasons 5 & 6 were a complete waste of time for me and I wish I could take it back, I could essentially stop at the end of season 4 and then watch the finale and I would have enjoyed it just as much as if I had watched the whole show.
OK but the answers are out there. I understand maybe you don't like the answers, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. When people come by and bitch about OMG THE NUMBERS without even looking to see if this was addressed...what else can you say to them?
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05-25-2010 , 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ConstantineX
I think this show clearly thrived more on the collective fervid imaginations of its viewers than any well-posed grand narrative given by the writers. If you want to see the bright side in that you can always argue that the journey was more important than the finale.


the show thrived because it presented numerous intriguing mysteries and (very) gradually doled out specific answers to them. the answers were viewer crack, not the mysteries.
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05-25-2010 , 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TomVeil
OK but the answers are out there. I understand maybe you don't like the answers, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. When people come by and bitch about OMG THE NUMBERS without even looking to see if this was addressed...what else can you say to them?
But the numbers explanation was so lame can you blame people for missing it? People wanted to know why the hell, in WORLD WAR TWO, years before any of the candidates were born, a signal beacon was repeating the numbers in the South Pacific. Why, after saying those numbers, did some dude get horrible bad luck, again years before any of the candidates were born?
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05-25-2010 , 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TomCollins
I think it's more making fun of the show for sucking for wasting time covering that and not anything that actually is important. That episode is pretty much the entire MO, but condensed to one episode. If there is one episode that pretty much described the overall depth of Lost, it would be that episode.
I think you missed my point. The video makes fun of the fact that they answered "What's up with Jack's tattoo's?" but is seriously asking questions like "WHATS THE DEAL WITH LIBBY'S HUSBAND'S BOAT???"

How is the latter any more important than Jack's tattoo's?
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05-25-2010 , 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by its_just_me
keep viewers entertained for 6 years?

i mean did you ever watch a sitcom? it's just the same ppl sitting in the same set talking. always. what's the point, right?
Yeah, but with a sitcom, there's not tons of crazy mysteries that all seem to build to something that can explain the basics of the island and amount to nothing. My major gripe with this show is that it pretends to be something that its not. I don't think it's the "crazy fan-base reading too much into it". It's the writers that kept introducing new mysteries with an apparent overarching way to tie them together. "In the end it will all make sense", "Season 6: All questions answered", etc. I already posted about this. It was all just a bunch of nonsensical stories strung together only because they had to do with the island. There was no reason any of these had to happen. We were expecting a big reveal to make sense of all the "puzzles" that were put in place. Not more details about the puzzles themselves. The show pretends to be some super intellectually complex mystery, but it's not much of a mystery if it's just a bunch of random mythology.

In terms of all the puzzles, this says it best:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semtex
But the numbers explanation was so lame can you blame people for missing it? People wanted to know why the hell, in WORLD WAR TWO, years before any of the candidates were born, a signal beacon was repeating the numbers in the South Pacific. Why, after saying those numbers, did some dude get horrible bad luck, again years before any of the candidates were born?
This is the summary of nearly ALL the puzzles presented in the show. Some seemingly super important intellectual mystery with tons of clues that dragged on for many seasons just explained with some silly explanation. Why was there a ship in the middle of the island? Oh, it washed up there in a storm many years ago? WTF, that explanation had no cohesion to any of the rest of the story, just some random disjointed story explained it, that had no real bearing on anything important. If the reveals they gave were satisfying in themselves, we wouldn't necessarily need to know more. None of the reveals were that satisfying, so I (like many of the dissatisfied viewers) were expecting that the writers couldn't possibly be bad enough to not tie them up into some overarching AHA moment. I guess I just had too much faith in the writers to be good writers, as opposed to soap writers. Each mystery was just more silly details in the Lost mythology, without expanding back towards any sensible cohesion.

Yes, the show was a fun ride, but only because I thought I was riding to Great America. I was led on a complete wild goose chase and ended up in my backyard swingset.

Last edited by captZEEbo; 05-25-2010 at 07:09 PM.
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05-25-2010 , 07:06 PM
I believe the writers left questions unanswered to continue the Lost imagination and always provide intrigue. What happens to a magician when he reveals his tricks? He aint special anymore, and is easily forgotten. I am sure the writers want to keep Lost interesting and I for one hope they never reveal all these unanswered questions and leave it to the imagination of all of us to wonder.
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05-25-2010 , 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Semtex
But the numbers explanation was so lame can you blame people for missing it? People wanted to know why the hell, in WORLD WAR TWO, years before any of the candidates were born, a signal beacon was repeating the numbers in the South Pacific. Why, after saying those numbers, did some dude get horrible bad luck, again years before any of the candidates were born?
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation

Like I said, sorry you don't like the answers.
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05-25-2010 , 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JaredL
Not at all.

Miles was presented from the off as a guy with the ability to talk to the dead. For a very short period of time, less than an episode, it looked like possibly bull**** but there was definitely no mystery about it. Sure, we didn't know how he could do that, but that's not important.

With Walt it was completely different. Tons of weird **** was going on and he seemed to have some strange power, but we didn't actually know what it was. There was a lot of speculation on what made him special, completely different from Miles where we knew he could get the thoughts of dead people. What is more important though, he was at the center of the main conflict at the time. The others were attacking and it seemed primarily in an effort to capture him (and Aaron, same really goes for him although they didn't show us any actual weirdness).

This applies for all of the plot-based mysteries. I personally don't mind the numbers not being revealed. To me that's like all the characters bumping into each other - Locke working for Nadia etc. It was an interesting side story, but the plot of the show was driven by a series of conflicts. The conflicts weren't particularly great by themselves. I don't think the action scenes were bad, but the show was carried by the mystery surrounding the motivations of one or both sides. The only exception really is Jack and Locke where it was about different life and management philosophies, with a bit of ego thrown in as with all of them I guess. With all of these conflicts in the first five seasons, we either didn't learn about the motivations whatsoever (Widmore) or possibly the explanation is something like what you gave which was simply that the people in charge were corrupt, power-hungry and somewhat incompetent.

Knowing that the reasons for these conflicts weren't interesting takes a lot out of them and the show as a whole.
Quoting for vagos as I'd like to hear what he has to say.
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05-25-2010 , 07:12 PM
wait, i'm confused about the show. so the cops knew internal affairs was setting them up??
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05-25-2010 , 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jakey
wait, i'm confused about the show. so the cops knew internal affairs was setting them up??
i was very confused about this as well? someone care to explain?
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05-25-2010 , 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TomVeil
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation

Like I said, sorry you don't like the answers.
Why couldn't they just have included that in the show? That isn't bad. I'm not a super Lost geek I had no idea what that was. Explaining the numbers as simply the corresponding candidate numbers was super lame. One explanation I loved was the reason the plane crashed, way back from season 2. It was so well done, weaving in Desmond's life story, tying in the CIA guy from Iraq, plus what was currently going on with Locke refusing to push the button.
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05-25-2010 , 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JaredL
The bigger problem for me is that a lot of the misdirection created something out of nothing. The plot the first 5 seasons was based around conflicts that weren't particularly interesting on their own, but they were compelling because of the mystery surrounding the motivations of one or both parties. Since there was nothing interesting going on behind any of those, it feels cheap.
exactly.
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