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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

01-19-2016 , 06:10 AM
He took a 400,000 dollar settlement.
01-19-2016 , 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23 Making a Murderer
He took a 400,000 dollar settlement.
I thought that was a different deal. Like , it's standard for anyone who is exonerated to get a settlement. In some states it is 50k/year locked up. (Even if the state isn't 'at fault'.) But, he had an additional case because there was seen to be extreme negligence/malice against him.. For example if the thing that was found to be damning in his case was the fact that the woman misidentified him, he might not have filed further. But there was a lot of evidence that Glen Allen was the actual rapist that the police department never followed up on, etc.
01-19-2016 , 06:30 AM
Brendan Dassey's case is such an absolute joke. It's so effing rage inducing. The State's allegations are that this kid gets pulled into this crime by the pure chance that he just went to give Steven Avery a letter that was accidentally put into BDs mailbox.

Uncle Steve Opens the door. "Hey B! Thanks for the mail. Hey listen, since you're here why don't you come inside and rape and murder this girl with me?"

Also, are there any transcripts from either of Kayla's interviews with Fassbender and Weigert?

I bet it's some fine police work. Would love to read.

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 01-19-2016 at 06:35 AM.
01-19-2016 , 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyRavishing Making a Murderer
I thought that was a different deal. Like , it's standard for anyone who is exonerated to get a settlement. In some states it is 50k/year locked up. (Even if the state isn't 'at fault'.) But, he had an additional case because there was seen to be extreme negligence/malice against him.. For example if the thing that was found to be damning in his case was the fact that the woman misidentified him, he might not have filed further. But there was a lot of evidence that Glen Allen was the actual rapist that the police department never followed up on, etc.
Not sure if you saw Borg's post or not, but a fairly important point in the documentary is that he was in fact still allowed to continue with his lawsuit. He took a settlement for a fraction of what some believe to be what he could have won. He had to take this settlement in order to pay for his new defense team.
01-19-2016 , 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyRavishing Making a Murderer
I thought that was a different deal. Like , it's standard for anyone who is exonerated to get a settlement. In some states it is 50k/year locked up. (Even if the state isn't 'at fault'.) But, he had an additional case because there was seen to be extreme negligence/malice against him.. For example if the thing that was found to be damning in his case was the fact that the woman misidentified him, he might not have filed further. But there was a lot of evidence that Glen Allen was the actual rapist that the police department never followed up on, etc.
the "standard" amount was some joke like 25 or 50k. i forget the exact details but in Wisconsin it was some low amount per year and capped after a few years hence his lawsuit where he settled for 400k. of course he settled after he needed lawyers for this case.
01-19-2016 , 07:13 AM
Right, now I remember that aspect. He settled so he could pay his lawyers. Thanks.
01-19-2016 , 07:18 AM
What are some mistakes you think Steven's defense made? I know it sounds small, but I would have had him shave his moustache, and found him a decent suit from the salvation army at worst. I also might have asked his parents to sit in the back of the court room. I know it sounds a bit harsh, but right or wrong, I think it becomes harder to put him away if he comes across as being from a higher social class. (I realize it's hard given that there are photos of the junk yard, etc.)

I also think in closing , or maybe through out the case, focused more on a few key aspects, rather than spreading themselves out two thin. (Think 'if it does not fit, you must aquit!' from the OJ trial.)
01-19-2016 , 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyRavishing Making a Murderer
What are some mistakes you think Steven's defense made?
This is really hard to tell from a documentary with tidbits of a six-week trial, but my impression from the doc was that they were too calm and logical. Imagine the outrage and indignation OJ's lawyers would have displayed to spotlight some of the BS in this investigation and trial.
01-19-2016 , 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
From looking at the Avery yard, it appears nobody there knows how to use the car crusher.
Not sure what you mean but if SA did it I'm sure he was trying to make it look like he was set up, I'm sure only a few know how to use the crusher as well as have the keys.
01-19-2016 , 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman Making a Murderer
Yeah the New Yorker critique of the filmmakers is absurd. Since when is it the purvey of a documentary of a criminal case to go out on their own and line up their own suspects and theories and tell their story. The author of that article misses the entire point of the documentary.
That's not at all what the New Yorker story said. The larger point was people tend to be too credulous--whether it be about forensic evidence which is really junk science, eye witness testimony, etc. The documentary was trying to shake people's credulity in the system. They were hoping to make people more circumspect and critical. Yet, ironically, they did it in a way that was not itself circumspect or critical. And, indeed, the response from the public has not been that either. Note the hundreds of thousands of people who immediately signed petitions to pardon Avery after only watching a documentary of the case. So the film makers were guilty of the exact same failings as the larger judicial system they were trying to criticize. Rather than undermining the larger public's credulity, they've simply exploited and even enhanced it.
01-19-2016 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
If kayla liked BD why lie in the 1st place?
cause (S) forst him. she didn't think BD would get in trouble.


Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23 Making a Murderer
He took a 400,000 dollar settlement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyRavishing Making a Murderer
Right, now I remember that aspect. He settled so he could pay his lawyers. Thanks.
yes, but of that $400k I think he only got $236k (iirc). The other $164k went to his lawyers for that civil case.
01-19-2016 , 10:39 AM
for 18 year that s freaking nuts
01-19-2016 , 11:35 AM
I've been hearing a lot of interviews with Dean Strang lately (I'm a big fan; I thought he was the star of the doc), but nothing from the other attorney, Jerry Buting. Anyone know why? Does Jerry just not want the media attention? I thought he was equally impressive.

(btw, I'd still be a vote for acquittal due to reasonable doubt. I find it scary how many people are willing to send a man away for life with as many uncertainties as we have in this case. Worst nightmare is to be falsely accused and have jurors just go along with an over zealous prosecutor.)
01-19-2016 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
I bet laying down a tarp defeats the worlds best forensics a significant % of the time.

According to BD they moved her around on a 'creeper'



I wonder how effective that would be at preventing blood spillage.
Right, and where is this creeper he mentioned? Should be a pretty easy find, right?

Again, I have no idea if Avery is guilty or innocent, but reasonable doubt is very much present, and our system declares we must find someone innocent if they cannot be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Lack of any blood evidence puts a huge load of doubt in my mind. Where is it all? And if they were so careful to keep it off of any piece of the property, how the hell did it get in the back of her car?
01-19-2016 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
Yes, but BD told his cousin and another friend about seeing the dead body. The police brought him in as a witness, not a suspect. They told him the only way to get the images out of his mind and making him sad was to tell the truth. He then told them he raped her, cut her throat, cut off her hair, stabbed her in the stomach, cleaned up with bleach and paint thinner, helped burn her body and helped stash the car.
And he did all of this with the magic ability to not produce any blood evidence. Astounding.

You say that a trap has fooled many a murder investigation, considering you are relying so heavily on BD'S confession, please to be informing me of how many times he mentioned using a tarp or plastic to catch the blood evidence.
01-19-2016 , 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
I think she was choked to death in the bedroom, stabbed in the garage and shot outside before being placed in the fire. I think it was a small enough amount of blood in the garage that bleach and paint thinner removed enough evidence. I don't think SA was so dumb that he was stabbing and shooting women in ways that would make for a difficult clean up. He planned this for a long time.

I'm willing to entertain some theories like they put her in the car and took her somewhere to shoot and burn her. BD clammed up when asked why she was in the car in the final interview. It pissed off the cops because after interviewing him for a few hours (and my listening to it) it was clear as day when he was being truthful and when he was lying.

I'm not concerned with the police evidence inconsistencies. It's pretty obvious they were just planting evidence left and right because they wanted a conviction. They're lucky their BS didn't lead to a rapist murderer getting off. If BD didn't have enough of a conscious to confess it very well may have.
So you believe BD'S confession, but absolutely none of the details in the confession?
01-19-2016 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyRavishing Making a Murderer
What are some mistakes you think Steven's defense made? I know it sounds small, but I would have had him shave his moustache, and found him a decent suit from the salvation army at worst. I also might have asked his parents to sit in the back of the court room. I know it sounds a bit harsh, but right or wrong, I think it becomes harder to put him away if he comes across as being from a higher social class. (I realize it's hard given that there are photos of the junk yard, etc.)
.)
I don't think the jury is going to cotton to some city slicker.
01-19-2016 , 04:14 PM



this bit still is weird, he is calling in the number plate for her car days before its found, you can see him almost redden up that hes been caught red handed making a blunder

why wasn't he ask "well why was you enquiring about the plate"?

seems so strange

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpsRtPCWHoM
01-19-2016 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggetje Making a Murderer
+1. I love how in both interviews he's being asked a couple of "dangerous" questions and he just answers them so perfectly, without trying to avoid/go around the subject. So satisfying to listen to.

He must be getting so much positive feedback, every time his name is brought up everyone loves the guy.
Notice how measured he is; how he pauses to consider each question before he responds. I think that is a good lesson to follow, especially when discussing such a serious topic.
01-19-2016 , 05:45 PM
I didn't quite understand the calling in of the missing license plate in advance either.

Is it that she wasn't considered missing or they hadn't found the car, but the officer called in on that car? Why wasn't he asked why he did that in much more detail?

Also, she was shot numerous times according to investigators. Wouldn't there be blood on tons of the junk in the trailer? Is the contention that was burned and/or cleansed too?

It seems the prosecution had a very low threshold to present evidence that matches their theory of the crime. I thought it would be the other way around when you need to convict beyond a reasonable doubt...
01-19-2016 , 05:59 PM
Reddit detectives on the case. Mentioned by Buting:

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/...euths-20160119









at least 2 keys in her hand. It's an old photo taken before she went missing, but at least implies that she wasn't always using the valet key that was found.
01-19-2016 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
I cant tell if you are being sarcastic. A few hours ago you were commending Weigert and Truthbender for the damn fine police work, but now you are saying it's obvious they were planting left and right.
The cops interviewing BD did a damn fine job at getting him to tell the truth. They were from the neighboring county's police dept. The manitowic cops are a different story.

I haven't changed my opinion much at all since entering the thread. I always said 95% guilty but 5% was probably reasonable doubt. I always said that when I learned BD told Kayla about seeing a body which prompted the BD interviews that I decided he was being truthful about the murder (if not all the specific details).
01-19-2016 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemeliminator Making a Murderer
Brendan Dassey 'confessed' before she said anything to the police, so she didn't 'set off' anything.
I believe you are wrong. The documentary presented BD being interviewed and confessing for a full episode or two before including the detail that they were only interviewing him in the first place because there were reports that he was sad and said something to Kayla. This was done to intentionally mislead you. If BD was coerced/hypnotized into telling the police he saw SA burn the body, then why did he tell Kayla these things before even meeting with the police? It throws a wrench in the hypnosis false confession interpretation.
01-19-2016 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004 Making a Murderer
So you believe BD'S confession, but absolutely none of the details in the confession?
I actually listened to all the interviews in full. The thing with his confession is he's very inconsistent with the details other than the fact that he raped her, cut her throat, stabbed her in the stomach and helped get rid of the body.

When he's being inconsistent it could be because he's lying to try to distance himself from the primary actor in the rape/murder. Remember in his mind he was forst and deserved only a few years in prison (his response when asked what punishment he should get). It could also just be from the trauma that he can't recall details. I imagine taking part in something so ****ed up with a very low mental ability but still having a conscious would be awful. His brain could literally be blocking out details of the night, a known psychological phenomenon.
01-19-2016 , 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004 Making a Murderer
Right, and where is this creeper he mentioned? Should be a pretty easy find, right?
Somewhere in the 5 hours of BD interviews. This isn't a personal theory of mine. BD said they moved her around on it.

      
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