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Old 12-25-2015, 11:22 PM   #126
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: Making a Murderer

Just saying i was surprised that he himself responded. I expected either no response, an automated one, or something from a secretary.

He just said there is a lot of evidence that was shown to the jury that wasn't in the documentary and wishes the public was able to see it.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:33 PM   #127
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
Just saying i was surprised that he himself responded. I expected either no response, an automated one, or something from a secretary.

He just said there is a lot of evidence that was shown to the jury that wasn't in the documentary and wishes the public was able to see it.
Did you ask him either what it is or where to find it?
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:36 PM   #128
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
Just saying i was surprised that he himself responded. I expected either no response, an automated one, or something from a secretary.

He just said there is a lot of evidence that was shown to the jury that wasn't in the documentary and wishes the public was able to see it.
thanks, from what I've read elsewhere, I'm inclined to agree with him
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:37 PM   #129
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by BustoPro View Post
As far as my take on the whole thing, with the benefit of hindsight it seems like Avery's defense made a huge mistake by focusing so much attention on possible police corruption. (The lawyers themselves said on camera that it was a risky strategy.)

There were so many holes in the case that it seems like they could have just hammered on the shakiness of the whole thing, instead of painting the cops as the bad guys, because that let the prosecution turn around and say "A vote for acquittal is the same as convicting the police of a crime" or however they put it in the closing argument (which isn't true in any case, but probably resonated with the presumably simple people of the jury.)
I think the defense had their hands tied when they weren't allowed name any other suspects that they think might have done it. Even with giant holes in the prosecutions story it's all going to come down to if the jurors can connect some dots on their own.

Probably doesn't matter anyways, the jury pool was so tainted Avery probably had close to 0% chance of ever being found not guilty.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:37 PM   #130
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Re: Making a Murderer

Spoiler:

Last edited by En Passant; 12-25-2015 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:39 PM   #131
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
Just saying i was surprised that he himself responded. I expected either no response, an automated one, or something from a secretary.

He just said there is a lot of evidence that was shown to the jury that wasn't in the documentary and wishes the public was able to see it.
yeah I'll bet. Easiest thing in the world for these sleazebags to say now. Surprised he didn't try to sext your gf or something.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:40 PM   #132
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by kep View Post
I think the defense had their hands tied when they weren't allowed name any other suspects that they think might have done it. Even with giant holes in the prosecutions story it's all going to come down to if the jurors can connect some dots on their own.

Probably doesn't matter anyways, the jury pool was so tainted Avery probably had close to 0% chance of ever being found not guilty.
Spoiler:

Last edited by En Passant; 12-25-2015 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:54 PM   #133
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Re: Making a Murderer

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/
Quote:
In 1998, a judge found him guilty of disorderly conduct following a family altercation. He got 12 months’ probation. Less than a year later, he was charged with raping and attempting to strangle his wife with a telephone cord. In court, the couple agreed to defer judgment pending further violence by Chuck, and the charge was finally dismissed in 2003. The couple subsequently divorced.
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Earl claims his brother, Steven, manipulated him as well. Years ago, when -Steven was first sent to prison and Earl was 14 or 15, Steven would call him from his cell block and order Earl to have sex with -Steven’s then-wife, Lori.
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Authorities were notified that on July 31 [Earl] Avery made videotapes in the bathroom and bedroom of his Whitelaw home, according to the sheriff's report. The tapes depicted people in various states of undress including two females, 17 and 45; two girls, both 3; one girl, 9, and two boys between the ages of 5 and 6.
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Meanwhile, in 1992, Steve’s younger brother, Earl Avery, was arrested after his wife claimed he beat and choked her during a drunken argument. Earl pleaded no contest to battery and was sentenced to 10 days in jail and 18 months’ probation. Three years later, he was charged with sexual assault of a child. He pleaded no contest to fourth-degree sexual assault and battery and spent 45 days in jail and three years on probation.
Not saying this makes him guilty but jfc, this is one ****ed up family.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:59 PM   #134
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by kep View Post
I think the defense had their hands tied when they weren't allowed name any other suspects that they think might have done it. Even with giant holes in the prosecutions story it's all going to come down to if the jurors can connect some dots on their own.
To me that's a similar trap, though. They're defense lawyers, they're never going to prove somebody else did it, whether they can name names or not. But they don't have to... ALL they have to do is cast reasonable doubt that THEIR guy did it. I think they got away from that whole idea with the cell phone messages, the weird ex-boyfriend, the cop inconsistencies and omissions, etc. etc. They were gaining yardage, so they could feel good at the end of each day, but they weren't putting any points on the scoreboard because none of that stuff really mattered, it was the evidence against THEIR guy that mattered.

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Probably doesn't matter anyways, the jury pool was so tainted Avery probably had close to 0% chance of ever being found not guilty.
This could very well be true.
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:27 AM   #135
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Re: Making a Murderer

I'm a few minutes in to Ep. 3 and almost feel like live-blogging it. Instead, to spare everyone, just a few thoughts:

1) LOLwtf at his first conviction. Just all those people lying, or going along with what is so obviously not the right thing to do.

2) Why is someone who spent 18 years on a wrongful conviction letting police in his house? I will never, ever say anything to police other than, "I'd like my lawyer," and I've never been in jail.

3) It would take such a vast conspiracy for him to be innocent of this murder that it's hard to believe it could happen... except it did before!

Still on the fence about whether he did it. Not at all on the fence about the justice system. He was down to the Wisconsin innocence project for his last hope; how many times does someone not get their help in time? It reminds me a ton of an article I recently read about murders in Waco where the death penalty was carried out on someone who at the very least should have been retried, if not outright released. Wiki here for brevity, but the article is great.
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Old 12-26-2015, 05:37 AM   #136
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by Biesterfield View Post
Can we agree that Steven's defense attorneys were the stars of the documentary?
So much this. Can't exaggerate what a model of professionalism these guys are for the legal profession. They handled the case perfectly (or at least have 6.5 episodes in).
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Old 12-26-2015, 06:15 AM   #137
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Re: Making a Murderer

All these Avery/Dassey males def cut their own hair, right? There's some shocking lids going on in this.
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Old 12-26-2015, 07:28 AM   #138
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by WichitaDM View Post
I am nowhere near the caliber of the defense attorneys in this movie. That being said if you care about your clients and their cases and are a criminal defense attorney you will lose sleep. I cannot fathom how much work these guys put into this case and honestly found myself asking question like how much did their marriages/relationships suffer as a result of it. That is one reason I am transitioning out of doing it. If you care then it is extremely emotionally hard and if you don't care then you know you are just another scumbag fleecing the poor/criminal class.

Now if you really don't care about your clients, have no conscious and just try and plea them out as soon as possible so you don't have to do any real work then I am sure you sleep quite well. That is why ole Len could still have a smile on his face while on the stand late in the doc AND STILL PRACTICE HIS ****TY BRAND OF CRIMINAL DEFENSE TODAY. He doesn't even think he is doing anything wrong while being a complete scumbag. A lot of that is because Len is a lot more normal in the criminal defense bar than the two heros from what I can tell.
+1
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Old 12-26-2015, 07:42 AM   #139
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Re: Making a Murderer

Next person to post a spoiler likes kissing their grandma.
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Old 12-26-2015, 10:30 AM   #140
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Next person to post a spoiler likes kissing their grandma.
It's 10 episodes on-demand. How hard is it to watch the whole thing, THEN open this thread?

Otherwise virtually every post for this sort of show would have to be inside a spoiler tag for the indefinite future, which makes it kinda hard to follow the discussion.
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Old 12-26-2015, 10:31 AM   #141
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Re: Making a Murderer

absolutely incredible piece of television. i watched the last 7 episodes today pretty much nonstop. i haven't watched more than 2 hours of tv in a day since watching the wire many years ago.

i only skimmed the thread quickly, looking forward to reading everything on here and reddit tomorrow. i was half expecting 239 to show up with a post about luminol in the garage and a broken window on the trailer.

there is zero reason to be using spoiler tags in this thread btw. with a netflix batch upload of a show where you absolutely don't want to be spoiled, your only option is staying out of the thread. it's completely impractical to expect everyone to begin their post with 'i'm through ep X' and then spoiler tags.
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Old 12-26-2015, 10:48 AM   #142
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by DB21 View Post
All these Avery/Dassey males def cut their own hair, right? There's some shocking lids going on in this.
In the last episode I thought Steven Avery was the spitting image of Captain Kangaroo. But they all had some very unique looks about them.
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Old 12-26-2015, 11:07 AM   #143
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Re: Making a Murderer



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Old 12-26-2015, 11:16 AM   #144
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Re: Making a Murderer

Pretty obviously written with the help of his mother. Branden's public defenders screwed up when they didn't play the video / audio interview where he admits to his mom that he was pressured into telling them what they wanted to great after confessing to the murder to the detectives.

Do you all think he's innocent? The only event that is preventing me from 100% believing him is when he admits to his mom that he did in fact help with the murder because he was scared of Steven.
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Old 12-26-2015, 11:30 AM   #145
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by djj6835 View Post
I was amazed at the cell phone records. How did the judge determine that her cell phone having voice mails deleted by someone two days after her murder wasn't relevant? They had proof that someone who knew here voicemail password was deleting voice mails after she was supposedly killed and they weren't allowed to use that information in court. I feel like I missed something as to why that evidence didn't make it to trial.
The ex bf was stalking her and killed her, or some random was but cops talked the ex into deleting those voicemails because they'd help Avery get away with it.

It's possible Avery did it because of the white trash factor and 18 years in jail could have made him especially psychotic. Seems like he fancies himself somewhat of a player so maybe he made a pass at the photographer and got pissed when she shut him down. As someone else said, Steve knows body shops better than anything else so if he could cover his tracks in any way he'd be able to tear up the car. Just seems unlikely he'd be so careful cleaning and so careless to leave the body in the burn pit or leave the car unhidden in his lot.

Brandon's confession was obvious BS. The "Be honest" that the cops kept saying reminded me of the tapping on the table from serial when Jay would have inconsistencies(What's that?) I wonder if a shy virgin could even get it up with a girl screaming for her life and Avery egging him on.

I think its about even chance that Avery, the ex bf or some random crazy did it. Maybe like a 5% chance that POS Lenk did it himself
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Old 12-26-2015, 11:31 AM   #146
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by En Passant View Post
Pretty obviously written with the help of his mother. Branden's public defenders screwed up when they didn't play the video / audio interview where he admits to his mom that he was pressured into telling them what they wanted to great after confessing to the murder to the detectives.

Do you all think he's innocent? The only event that is preventing me from 100% believing him is when he admits to his mom that he did in fact help with the murder because he was scared of Steven.
He did that because the investigators more or less made him do it. I do think Brendan is innocent. At a minimum, there's a reasonable doubt. I do not like how his counsel presented his case as portrayed in the documentary, but it was a 9 day trial and they covered it in one episode, so I'm sure we missed a lot.
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:00 PM   #147
Yeti
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Re: Making a Murderer

this is the thread about the vial mentioned earlier:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...the_blood_vial


also, didn't see any posts on this, but the opening credits (especially the music) are just awesome
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:10 PM   #148
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
Request from Kratz.

Probably a small spoiler.
Spoiler:


One time NetFlix!
"Ken Kratz, the prosecuting attorney in Mr. Avery's trial, ignored several requests from the filmmakers for an interview."

NYT Link: Behind ‘Making a Murderer,’ a New Documentary Series on Netflix

So Kratz ignores the filmmakers for years, but now that everyone know what a scumbag he is, suddenly netflix needs to give him an opportunity to tell his side. LOL.
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:36 PM   #149
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Re: Making a Murderer

Love the thought of Kratz sitting around sweating, checking email, and f5ing a bunch of pages related to this doc 1000 times a day
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:50 PM   #150
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Re: Making a Murderer

Bob,

As much as I love a good conspiracy theory, why would the cops go through all that effort instead of just killing Avery? Theresa was last seen at Avery's, and that's where the body was found. People are not that sophisticated. My questions revolve around the extent of Branden's involvement.
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