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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

12-31-2018 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
@proundfootz.... Yup I'm sick of C. V.'s bad faith posting.... Like your post says above, if that he see's a miscarage of justice in the M.K. case he should clearly see the problems in manitowoc but doesn't..
Because there isn't in the sense that you could make a case for wrongful conviction or LE corruption. You're simply speculating. Rest of your paragraph already covered itt & it didn't take eight searches to find the key & sketch falsehood already covered also itt.

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because to believe there was no skullduggery in this case
All you have is belief but no evidence to support it. I'm going by the facts & evidence.

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Forget that.. Just **** off back to your hole C. V. You are the opitiomy of bad faith, bad faith posting.
No you. You're the one attempting to peddle your beliefs off as fact as well as failed defence argument as evidence. You're the one rehashing what was already covered by the courts including the failed frame up argument by Avery's trial defence. You're the one engaging in falsehoods such as the key taking eight searches & the sketch & that Avery was framed in '85 among many other things which are indeed the epitome of bad faith posting.

Come back when you've evidence to support your extraordinary claims. Otherwise, Avery & Dassey can rot.
12-31-2018 , 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
what was at fault for cuddly bear's first rape arrest and sentencing? the system? corruption? lack of science?
Human error & the fact that science hadn't progressed sufficiently at that point to exonerate Cuddly Bear. No evidence at all for corruption. Nor has any surfaced in...whoa. 33 years now. So excuse me if I don't hold my breath for any to suddenly appear any time soon.

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what was at fault for ron williamson's 11 years in prison?
Not familiar enough with the case to comment except to say again nobody is arguing that the system is infallible or that LE like any other large body doesn't have corrupt elements. Wrongful convictions can & most certainly do occur. Didn't happen in the Teresa Halbach case though.

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what is at fault for the 4% of innocent's that are wrongfully incarcerated?
A fallible system.

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The "system", the for profit prison business
Separate issue irrelevant to Ms Halbach's specific case.

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and the fact that police/DA don't really care if they get the right person, they just want to get a guilty verdict, is what is at fault.
Generalisation & extraordinarily unlikely that you're correct re entire police & every single DA in existence. So I'm gonna dismiss that, sorry.

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Poor people who can't afford adequate counsel don't stand a chance.
Avery's counsel wasn't inadequate & he's almost literally certainly one of those 96% who are rightfully incarcerated, so it's all good.
12-31-2018 , 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
Sarcasim much... 😂

Happy New year to You Fraley & all the peeps who post 😅 Have a good one 🍻
Happy New Year Smacc & all

12-31-2018 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
what was at fault for cuddly bear's first rape arrest and sentencing? the system? corruption? lack of science?

what was at fault for ron williamson's 11 years in prison?

what is at fault for the 4% of innocent's that are wrongfully incarcerated?

The "system", the for profit prison business, and the fact that police/DA don't really care if they get the right person, they just want to get a guilty verdict, is what is at fault. Poor people who can't afford adequate counsel don't stand a chance.
It's no big secret that the justice system as it's currently organized is tilted against the poor - only someone willfully ignorant can pretend it isn't.
12-31-2018 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
What may be of note here also is that George told investigators casey left the house with caylee at noon. All these calls took place inside the house and George didn't leave until after 2:30. So he lied.
If George helped his daughter Casey cover up the murder, he is indeed culpable.
12-31-2018 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Its quite amusing that reasonable doubt only has this crazy threshold when it comes to Avery.
It is indeed!

Some think it's reasonable to let Casey Anthony off but not Steven Avery.

Maybe if he'd celebrated the death of Teresa instead of knowing nothing about it?
12-31-2018 , 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
If George helped his daughter Casey cover up the murder, he is indeed culpable.
No you don't understand. Him telling police casey left at this time helps the narrative that casey murdered her daughter and tried to avoid everyone for weeks after.

The fact is George doesn't know when they left the house because Casey was still home when George left for work. George was likely there when caylee died.

Unless you think caylee died after 3pm but I don't think that's likely because casey had already began talking to her boyfriend about moving in by then.


George also told police casey wouldn't let him near her trunk (another lie) which is hardly something hed say if he was trying to cover stuff up for his daughter.
12-31-2018 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
It is indeed!

Some think it's reasonable to let Casey Anthony off but not Steven Avery.

Maybe if he'd celebrated the death of Teresa instead of knowing nothing about it?
No, I just require all doubt which is reasonable to be removed before someone is convicted. It is reasonable to think caylee could have drowned and George and casey covered it up. It is not reasonable to think avery is innocent. There is no reasonable theory that fits the evidence where avery is innocent.

she also didn't celebrate her daughters death. Stop believing everything that was said by HNN and court tv during the trial.
12-31-2018 , 06:16 PM
Unfortunately, I'm in no position to know what George knew or what Casey might have told him. Nor do I have a firm opinion at what time of day Caylee was killed.

It does seem indicative to me that the chloroform searches were conducted weeks before the murder. Unlikely IMO to be 'innocent' searches as there was an effort to delete them.
12-31-2018 , 06:19 PM
*a chloroform search. not searches.

If you check the internet history this search was done right after casey read a story about a girl who was murdered by chloroform.

Do you think it more likely:

a: She did this search to find a way to kill her daughter

or

b: she did this search because she didn't know what the substance was?
12-31-2018 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
No, I just require all doubt which is reasonable to be removed before someone is convicted. It is reasonable to think caylee could have drowned and George and casey covered it up. It is not reasonable to think avery is innocent. There is no reasonable theory that fits the evidence where avery is innocent.
Obviously we disagree. I find my doubts about allegations that Steven committed any crime against Teresa to be very reasonable, for reasons prolifically posted in this thread.

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she also didn't celebrate her daughters death. Stop believing everything that was said by HNN and court tv during the trial.
Are you suggesting evidence of Casey's party-going were somehow faked?

12-31-2018 , 06:28 PM
I didn't say evidence of her partying was faked. I said the media has misrepresented the actual events and that saying she was "celebrating her daughters death" is nothing short of an extreme conclusion that is not supported by evidence.

There were less than a handful of times she went out partying after her daughter died and all of them were likely to keep her boyfriend (a club owner) happy. casey has some huge co dependency problems.

So she did go to buffalo wild wings, compete in a hot body contest and help host a house party. To go from that and conclude shes "celebrating her daughters death" is an irresponsible conclusion.
12-31-2018 , 06:38 PM
I guess I don't find Casey's behavior 'reasonable' in the case of an accidental death.

Covering up the face of the victim with duct tape, sealing the child in plastic bags, dumping her corpse in a swamp, partying without a care in the world, and lying non-stop about it to anyone who will listen.

ymmv
12-31-2018 , 06:43 PM
Id agree with you if Casey and her parents had a normal relationship. They don't/didn't. Are you aware that they all searched for caylee for years after the trial even though she was dead? They did this to keep Cindy happy. The family is f'd up.

The lying and covering up was because she didn't want her mom to know caylee was dead, caylee didn't have duct tape around her mouth, the body was moved (already discussed itt) the partying was likely to appease her boyfriend who was a club owner. Even if it wasn't, that could just means she has a weird way of handling grief.

Earlier this year I went through a very difficult time in my life and was grieving over a loss. I started hooking up with random people and drinking a lot to cope with this loss. So I can see how or why people may party when they lose someone they care about.
12-31-2018 , 06:46 PM
To be clear:

They didn't find duct tape on her mouth. They found duct tape near the body. And 3 pieces found stuck to the top of her head down around the bottom of her jaw. The prosecution argued the position of caylees jaw indicated the duct tape was originally over her mouth.
12-31-2018 , 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
To be clear:

They didn't find duct tape on her mouth. They found duct tape near the body. And 3 pieces found stuck to the top of her head down around the bottom of her jaw. The prosecution argued the position of caylees jaw indicated the duct tape was originally over her mouth.
Based on this document, I suspect the duct tape was covering Caylee's face.

C. Several overlapping pieces of duct tape, over the anterior portion of the lower skull, including mandible and a portion of the maxilla

1. Duct tape still attached to scalp hairs

2. Mandible still in approximate anatomic position with no visible attached soft tissue beneath the duct tape


http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/...lee_report.pdf
12-31-2018 , 07:17 PM
Yes, exactly what I just said lol... Anything else?
12-31-2018 , 07:19 PM
If you're going to say it moved from her mouth and nose to the side of her face you cant rule out it could have moved from around the bag to her head and around her face.

By the way, why so much tape to put around her mouth? one of those three pieces would do it and how did one piece get outside the bag and a few feet away?
12-31-2018 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Id agree with you if Casey and her parents had a normal relationship. They don't/didn't. Are you aware that they all searched for caylee for years after the trial even though she was dead? They did this to keep Cindy happy. The family is f'd up.
No doubt.

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The lying and covering up was because she didn't want her mom to know caylee was dead, caylee didn't have duct tape around her mouth, the body was moved (already discussed itt) the partying was likely to appease her boyfriend who was a club owner. Even if it wasn't, that could just means she has a weird way of handling grief.
It's apparent Casey didn't want anyone to know her child had been killed. It took her quite some time to come up with the 'accidental death' story.

According to the autopsy it does appear there is some connection between the tape and the skull (scalp hairs adhering to the tape).

The body was moved by police in December, no doubt. As I've already posted Dominic did not see the body because he did not search the area where the body was found, I have no reason to imagine the body was removed from the dump site since it was dumped there in June.

Casey may have an odd way of handling grief. Or a typical way for a sociopath to act after getting away with murder.

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Earlier this year I went through a very difficult time in my life and was grieving over a loss. I started hooking up with random people and drinking a lot to cope with this loss. So I can see how or why people may party when they lose someone they care about.
I'm sorry for your loss.

However, in this case we're dealing with the behavior of the prime suspect in a suspicious death.
12-31-2018 , 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Yes, exactly what I just said lol... Anything else?
Just FYI: 'anterior' means the front. Not the side, not the back.

On the human head, this is where apertures useful for breathing are located.

If you wanted to suffocate someone, this would be where you'd place duct tape.
12-31-2018 , 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Just FYI: 'anterior' means the front. Not the side, not the back.

On the human head, this is where apertures useful for breathing are located.

If you wanted to suffocate someone, this would be where you'd place duct tape.
Ahh I see, I didnít know that. Thatís not how it was explained at trial.
01-01-2019 , 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Ahh I see, I didnít know that. Thatís not how it was explained at trial.
I don't feel I have enough information at this point to decide whether Caylee was killed through neglect and it was made to look like a murder, or was a murder.

Either way it appears to me Casey is culpable.
01-01-2019 , 07:32 AM
Meanwhile, in the case of Steven Avery the latest developments are summarized by Kathleen Zellner:

So far, eight or nine appeals filed by Zellner in Avery's case have been granted.

It only took 11 days for the court to ax Zellnerís plan for DNA testing, which she explained was agreed upon by the original court who convicted Avery for the murder of Teresa Halbach. Avery is spending life in prison without parole, though he maintains that heís innocent.

Zellner isn't discouraged by the ruling, as it only points at Avery's possible appeal. The bones could still be tested, just not at this point. "As the state admitted, there is not much Wisconsin case law on point," Zellner explained to Newsweek. "The appellate court wants to resolve the issues on Averyís current appeal before the new issue re: bone testing is addressed. The state claims if Avery wins appeal, bone testing may become unnecessary."

Zellner said that the decision didn't hurt Avery's case. "The bottom line is that the appellate court is not preventing Avery from doing the bone testing after the appeal is completed or by agreement with the new attorney general while the appeal is pending. Either way, the courtís decision does not damage Mr. Averyís efforts to have his conviction vacated.Ē


https://www.newsweek.com/kathleen-ze...n-2018-1275694
01-02-2019 , 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
That was directed @57red
I know your post was but Loudz fallacious crap was still hilarious & 57 is absolutely correct anyway, you people do indeed engage in magical thinking & seem to think your mere assertions count as actual evidence.

You actually believe that the convictions should be overturned based purely on your assertions & Zellner's failed defence arguments as well as the failed trial defence arguments. You haven't even the first clue of the implications of your childish want. It's why you people are borderline dangerous as your tantrums can at times unleash killers onto society such as the aforementioned West Memphis three for example. Your standards of proof for different people is also wildly inconsistent. You're like children throwing your toys outa the pram or that Veruca Salt kid from Willy Wonk, endlessly repeating what was already thoroughly debunked & not accepted by the courts until you get your way. It's why I consider you hard core supporters groupies as there's no structure to your reasoning, all you want is the outcome. You simply wish for them to be freed no matter what.

And dream on cuz it's never gonna happen. Zellner's been routinely rejected with everything she's submitted & it's not due to some grand conspiracy or the judiciary but because her arguments amount to nothing. Her rapid DNA was rejected because it was available when she submitted her last motion in 2017. Plus it's merely a technique which gets quicker results it doesn't change the actual evidence. Then there's the brain fingerprinting. She's striking out because wrt this specific case she's a clown & Dassey's lawyers are actually far more professional & competent imho. But you lot will still howl conspiracy like the divorced from reality cultists you are. But in actual reality your killers are gonna rot in prison & Avery will die there, & will do so because they're guilty & the evidence against Avery in particular can't be refuted objectively or viably, regardless on how much you lot stamp your feet, the end.
01-02-2019 , 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by 57 On Red Making a Murderer
I'm sorry, but that is magical thinking of a perfectly absurd kind -- the same as the 'Oswald was framed' lunacy of JFK conspiracists.
These words do not mean what you think they mean.

Carry on.....

      
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