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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

12-23-2018 , 08:09 AM
10 Q. The -- One of the men that you later were able to
11 confirm that she visited and took a photograph of
12 a car he had for sale, on October 31st, was this
13 Steve Schmitz, whom we spoke about a few minutes
14 ago?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Mr. Schmitz, you learned, wrote a check for the
17 Auto Trader services?
18 A. I would have to see that report. I don't know
19 how he paid. I think you are right. I recall
20 seeing a check from him.

Detective Mark Wiegert recalls seeing a check Teresa had in her possession on the day she disappeared.

Now it seems the check has disappeared.
12-23-2018 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
10 Q. The -- One of the men that you later were able to
11 confirm that she visited and took a photograph of
12 a car he had for sale, on October 31st, was this
13 Steve Schmitz, whom we spoke about a few minutes
14 ago?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Mr. Schmitz, you learned, wrote a check for the
17 Auto Trader services?
18 A. I would have to see that report. I don't know
19 how he paid. I think you are right. I recall
20 seeing a check from him.

Detective Mark Wiegert recalls seeing a check Teresa had in her possession on the day she disappeared.

Now it seems the check has disappeared.
Wait a minute, they don't even know if this cheque has been cashed & they had it in their possession but had NONE of T.H. other items from the Rav4 Hmmm... And Ryan had possession of some stuff presumably from the rav4.

I guess we can add the cheque to all the missing crime scene photo's...I mean what expert only takes 3/4 photos of the burn barrel & No None Zero of the burn pit?
12-23-2018 , 03:30 PM
^^TICKTOCK!!!
12-23-2018 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
Wait a minute, they don't even know if this cheque has been cashed & they had it in their possession but had NONE of T.H. other items from the Rav4 Hmmm... And Ryan had possession of some stuff presumably from the rav4.

I guess we can add the cheque to all the missing crime scene photo's...I mean what expert only takes 3/4 photos of the burn barrel & No None Zero of the burn pit?
Some of the missing stuff may have become souvenirs or 'trophies' like Teresa's panties LE seized from her dirty clothes hamper.

Meanwhile, here's an interesting article that chronicles how the prosecution delayed turning over information relevant to Bobby Dassey's torture porn addiction.

Whilst the timing and style of Kratz’s emails gradually sought to muddy the waters of discovery, it would not be until January 25th, 2007, that he would make mention of Velie’s ‘Dassey, Final Report’ via a stipulation email sent to Strang. As with the 7 DVDs, that Kratz incorrectly identified as CDs, he would attribute the ‘Dassey Final Report’ to that of Brendan Dassey, and further state that Velie “[f]ound nothing much of evidentiary value. Of course by this time Avery was less than 2 weeks away from standing trial and the possibility of introducing third party suspects had passed.

https://criminaljusticereformjournal...ly-august-3rd/

Naturally, Kratz and friends wouldn't want the defense to be in a position to impeach the State's star witness, the last person to see Teresa alive...
12-24-2018 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Some of the missing stuff may have become souvenir.
A post from seekingthetruth of TTM....

The purpose of this post is to provide links to evidence spreadsheets (at the bottom of this post) which are helpful to researching ledgers and tag numbers that have been previously identified from reports. I am also providing a spreadsheet of quarry evidence exhibits that Avery recently submitted to the court. I think this information might be helpful for anyone interested because it provides context about other evidence also collected from the quarry debris sites.

Couple of noteworthy examples:

Quarry debris pile 3, GPS location N44 14'44 W87 42'10, shows that human bones were found at that location, tag 7411, described as, "Calcined human bone frags; possible cut edges" (STATE 1 _9280; R.756:29.) Also collected was a 5-gal. bucket containing debris, tag # 7409 (2 glass slides) and 7410 (bobby pin.)

Quarry debris pile 2 (8687), GPS location N44 14'44 W87 42'08, shows that tag #7419 is a "Cut/burned human bone" (STATE 1_9280; R. 756:29.) It is also described as "Cut/burned human bone; wood." Well, that pile becomes even more interesting when checking the master because that debris pile also produced debris pile 8663, #7417, red coagulated substance, charred.

Of particular interest to me are the never seen descriptions of 8480 and 8481. Per the exhibit in Avery's new motion, those, when checked in, are described as, "Burn pile ash Northwest of red trailer Avery Property." That is quite odd because from that ash, law enforcement recovered burnt material from the deer camp, tag 7963 (page 248; also see pg. 402, of the CASO report, which shows tag #7963 is a 5-gal. bucket of burnt material, and, on pg. 403, the report shows this tag was recovered from tag #s 8480 & 8481)

Notice, a former red trailer, northwest of Avery property, is actually the wooded area by Kuss Rd.

Per page 248, CASO, Rick Riemer indicated, "Also turned over to me was Property Tag#7958, burnt material with the words deer camp bum barrel printed on the container, which was found at the deer camp near the location.

Property Tag#7960, burnt bone from the deer camp area, was turned over to me at 1017 hrs.
Property Tag#7961, burnt material from Site E10 was turned over to me at 1019 hours.
Property Tag#7962, burnt material from Site E9 was turned over to me at 1023 hrs.
Property Tag#7963, burnt material from deer camp was turned over to me at 1027 hours."
Property Tag #7964, we later learn, is tagged barrel 2. Barrel 2, per Eisenberg, produced, "Human bone (element ID), non-human non-biological; 1 shaft fragment with cut marks sent to FBI on 7 Nov 2006; pupal casings."

On page 403, Hawkins states the following: "Bum pile ash, bearing Property Tag No. 8481 and 8480, burnt material, bearing Property Tag Nos. 7954, 7963, 7958, 7948 and 7947, were also signed over to me and placed into secure storage."

7947, once you start researching, produced many familiar items from case which were used as evidence against Avery.

Except, upon finding the deer camp evidence was not only with the Avery evidence, AND LATER RENAMED, "Burn pile ash Northwest of red trailer Avery Property," the evidence collected from 8480 and 8481 feels highly suspect, especially given that it produced human bones.

Zellner indicated the first search of the Dassey barrel 2 produced no bones, per the DCI report.

Well, this is as far as I have researched this new information. But, lots of good information is contained within Avery's new motions. If interested, happy sleuthing!

Related exhibits from Avery's motion used for reseaqrch: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DFJ...ew?usp=sharing

Master evidence spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hod...ew?usp=sharing

Summary of evidence id's within exhibits: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hgx...ew?usp=sharing

Details of findings so far related to Avery's exhibits: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DCN...ew?usp=sharing

Also, if the files appear unavailable, it's because Google places security restrictions on the number of people accessing/downloading within a short time - just give it an hour or so and try again.

12-24-2018 , 02:54 PM
I need some more sexy true crime shows and documentaries to watch. I've already caught up on the following. Ranking from most to least interesting.
  • The Staircase case
  • The West Memphis Three
  • Robert Durst
  • Jodi Arias
  • Michael Peterson
  • Casey Anthony
  • JonBenet Ramsey
  • The Menendez Brothers
  • Chandra Levy

I even watched all the "to catch a predator" episodes but murder is always preferable especially cases with courtroom and/or interrogation footage
12-24-2018 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer
I need some more sexy true crime shows and documentaries to watch. I've already caught up on the following. Ranking from most to least interesting.
  • The Staircase case
  • The West Memphis Three
  • Robert Durst
  • Jodi Arias
  • Michael Peterson
  • Casey Anthony
  • JonBenet Ramsey
  • The Menendez Brothers
  • Chandra Levy

I even watched all the "to catch a predator" episodes but murder is always preferable especially cases with courtroom and/or interrogation footage
This is an interesting list. Are there any docs on casey Anthony? I recently gave this case a second look and a redditer completely changed my mind about it. I think there was an accidental drowning and casey Anthony is innocent of murder.
12-24-2018 , 05:23 PM
There's a 3 part series called The Case Of Caylee Anthony where two ex cops (1 FBI and 1 Scotland yard) try and put together all the pieces by talking to experts and doing experiments. They also did the JonBonet case which was much more interesting.

There's also a series called American Murder Mystery which has done several of the cases in that list in multiple parts that lays everything out pretty nicely. I'd watch that before the case of Caylee Anthony
12-24-2018 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer
There's a 3 part series called The Case Of Caylee Anthony where two ex cops (1 FBI and 1 Scotland yard) try and put together all the pieces by talking to experts and doing experiments. They also did the JonBonet case which was much more interesting.

There's also a series called American Murder Mystery which has done several of the cases in that list in multiple parts that lays everything out pretty nicely. I'd watch that before the case of Caylee Anthony
Havent seen those but I will have to check them out. The series I read broke down all the evidence, including caseys phone calls the day her daughter died. One of the things I found remarkable is if we are to believe she murdered her daughter with premeditation we must believe she casually was talking to friends all day then after one long phone call (almost an hr) she kills her daughter than frantically decides to call her mom 100 times with no answer.

What was she trying to tell her mom? "Hey I killed kaylee because I wanted to go party"

Another thing, there were two PIs hired by George Anthony that seemed to know the near precise location where kaylees body would be found a week later. There is a video where they are seen getting directions over the phone to this location. Whos giving them directions? I think George because I think both George and casey knew where that body was. I think kronk moved it to later replace it in the same location so hed get the recognition for finding it.
12-24-2018 , 07:00 PM
That's the first time I read about phone calls and hiring PIs. It was also certainly not an accident. The child was found with duct tape over her mouth and eyes and was ruled a homicide. The prosecution ****ed up going after first degree murder when they had very little evidence to back it up.
12-24-2018 , 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer
I need some more sexy true crime shows and documentaries to watch. I've already caught up on the following. Ranking from most to least interesting.
  • The Staircase case
  • The West Memphis Three
  • Robert Durst
  • Jodi Arias
  • Michael Peterson
  • Casey Anthony
  • JonBenet Ramsey
  • The Menendez Brothers
  • Chandra Levy

I even watched all the "to catch a predator" episodes but murder is always preferable especially cases with courtroom and/or interrogation footage
Try BBC iPlayer for some recent true crime doc's Where the same Scotland Yard guy is in 1... 2017/18 ..... 3 Watchable Doc's that are 3/4 episodes long.
Last 1 was Murder at the Railway station.
There all well made.
And add in The Innocent man.
12-24-2018 , 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer
I need some more sexy true crime shows and documentaries to watch. I've already caught up on the following. Ranking from most to least interesting.
  • The Staircase case
  • The West Memphis Three
  • Robert Durst
  • Jodi Arias
  • Michael Peterson
  • Casey Anthony
  • JonBenet Ramsey
  • The Menendez Brothers
  • Chandra Levy

I even watched all the "to catch a predator" episodes but murder is always preferable especially cases with courtroom and/or interrogation footage
The Innocent Man on Netflix was very good. The Confession Tapes, also on Netflix, was very good as well. Both of these also have at least a tangential relationship to MaM.
12-24-2018 , 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer
That's the first time I read about phone calls and hiring PIs. It was also certainly not an accident. The child was found with duct tape over her mouth and eyes and was ruled a homicide. The prosecution ****ed up going after first degree murder when they had very little evidence to back it up.
The phone records weren’t presented at trial, but we have them now.

The duct tape also wasn’t around the mouth of the skull and as I pointed out the body was moved by kronk. I can provide a ton of reasons for this. Kronk “found” the body like 3 times, told a bunch of people he knew that he found the body before it was actually “found”, first reported just finding a skull 3 months before actually “finding the body” and the pi team hired by George couldn’t ”find” the body despite being directed to its precise location where kronk “found” it one week later.

So where was the body?
12-24-2018 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer
I need some more sexy true crime shows and documentaries to watch. I've already caught up on the following. Ranking from most to least interesting.
  • The Staircase case
  • The West Memphis Three
  • Robert Durst
  • Jodi Arias
  • Michael Peterson
  • Casey Anthony
  • JonBenet Ramsey
  • The Menendez Brothers
  • Chandra Levy

I even watched all the "to catch a predator" episodes but murder is always preferable especially cases with courtroom and/or interrogation footage
I was recently watching 'The Investigator: A British Crime Story' on Netflix, which I found interesting. Mark Williams-Thomas tries to close some unsolved murders which might involve serial killers.
12-25-2018 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The phone records weren’t presented at trial, but we have them now.

The duct tape also wasn’t around the mouth of the skull and as I pointed out the body was moved by kronk. I can provide a ton of reasons for this. Kronk “found” the body like 3 times, told a bunch of people he knew that he found the body before it was actually “found”, first reported just finding a skull 3 months before actually “finding the body” and the pi team hired by George couldn’t ”find” the body despite being directed to its precise location where kronk “found” it one week later.

So where was the body?
I mean I don't wanna get into it but a lot of what you're saying sounds incorrect based on what I've seen in both documentaries.

This is the most interesting video going through a lot of the evidence and the trial.

12-25-2018 , 05:12 PM
Maybe we need a thread for true crime shows and docs.
12-25-2018 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer

This is the most interesting video going through a lot of the evidence and the trial.

Thanks for the link. It looks like a good exploration of the case.
12-26-2018 , 12:26 AM
Do they talk about Dominic Casey or the other PI hired by George? That’s extremely important to what I’m saying about kronk.

Aug- kronk finds the body on suburban drive
September- body isn’t on surburban drive when Dominic searches that same area
Dec- body is back on suburban drive
12-26-2018 , 12:33 AM
EVen more bizarre is Dominick claims the person he spoke to on the phone giving him directions in the video was a psychic.

I think it was George telling him where they hid the body.
12-26-2018 , 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer
Maybe we need a thread for true crime shows and docs.
Maybe more people should read trial transcripts if they're that interested in cases, instead of going by "true" crime shows & docs.
12-26-2018 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Maybe more people should read trial transcripts if they're that interested in cases, instead of going by "true" crime shows & docs.
Why?
I just wanna be entertained for a few hours. I'm not trying to pass exams to become a lawyer.


This is also an excellent channel on youtube making compilations of police interrogations.

12-26-2018 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Do they talk about Dominic Casey or the other PI hired by George? That’s extremely important to what I’m saying about kronk.

Aug- kronk finds the body on suburban drive
September- body isn’t on surburban drive when Dominic searches that same area
Dec- body is back on suburban drive
According to this timeline Dominic Casey went to the dump site in November.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...hony_case#2008

Dominic didn't discover the remains at that time. Does that mean the body wasn't there? Not 100% sure that's the case.

Kronk does not seem to indicate the specific location has changed between August and December.
12-26-2018 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemstock Making a Murderer
Why?
I just wanna be entertained for a few hours. I'm not trying to pass exams to become a lawyer.
It's very helpful to have a digest of the relevant information. Expecting everyone who has an interest in cases to get into the minutia is unrealistic.

In the Caylee Anthony case we have more information than was presented to the jury (for instance, the computer searches for 'foolproof suffocation' on the day the victim 'disappeared').

Anyone going by court testimony alone will remain ignorant of relevant facts.

Quote:
This is also an excellent channel on youtube making compilations of police interrogations.

Good stuff there.

Casey Anthony is featured in this video from that channel:



All things considered, I think Casey is guilty, even though she wasn't convicted.
12-26-2018 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
According to this timeline Dominic Casey went to the dump site in November.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...hony_case#2008

Dominic didn't discover the remains at that time. Does that mean the body wasn't there? Not 100% sure that's the case.

Kronk does not seem to indicate the specific location has changed between August and December.
My point still stands.

The body was there in august, wasn't there in November and was somehow there again in December.

two relevant questions. Why couldn't dominic locate the body? Who was giving dominic directions on the phone?
12-26-2018 , 07:27 PM
Quote:
In the Caylee Anthony case we have more information than was presented to the jury (for instance, the computer searches for 'foolproof suffocation' on the day the victim 'disappeared').
This seems like a search someone would do who was thinking of killing themselves, not someone who was thinking of killing someone else. Is there a human alive who doesn't understand how to suffocate another person? It would only be suffocating yourself where youd need some instructions.

Also, that search was done after caylee was dead. That search took place after the string of calls to caseys mom. The "panic calls".

      
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