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Old 07-15-2018, 08:14 PM   #12076
proudfootz
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Re: Making a Murderer

...almost as embarrassing as the 1985 case where LE ignored Steven's 16+ alibi witnesses and did everything in their power to convict the wrong man.

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Old 07-16-2018, 03:36 AM   #12077
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
How else would it have gotten there?
Cuz Avery & Dassey are guilty, that's how.

@Loudz- zero evidence Avery was framed for rape.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:41 AM   #12078
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by markksman View Post
Wisconsin is one of the most corrupt state’s in the country. This has been a given from the onset.
Wisconsin is a corrupt state ergo was corrupt here? That's like saying that wrongful convictions occur ergo Avery was wrongfully convicted. And that doesn't wash as again no evidence for it.

Quote:
Pretending one of them was not previously locked up for years on a wrongful conviction is lol.
?? Who's pretending? Avery is a genuine fuhreelz no foolin' exoneree who was genuinely wrongfully convicted for rape. He wasn't wrongfully convicted of murder though as he's truly guilty.
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:40 AM   #12079
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Asked and answered. You inability to comprehend plain English is your problem.
No you didn't, at no point during our exchange have you answered this- link it. Link where you specifically answered whether LE planted the blood showing Avery to be wrong when he absolves them, since it's so true. Or else stop blatantly lying your ass off, typical murderer groupie behaviour from you. But your refusal to answer& continued bluster, & pathological lying that you have answered when you haven't, despite the truth being easy top defend is duly noted & duly laughed at.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:33 AM   #12080
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Re: Making a Murderer

Would love to see corpus vile arguing Avery's rape guilt post conviction. He'd use the same arguments he's posting about murder. He was convicted of rape, therefore he's guilty. What evidence do you have that he's not guilty?
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:28 PM   #12081
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by housenuts View Post
Would love to see corpus vile arguing Avery's rape guilt post conviction. He'd use the same arguments he's posting about murder. He was convicted of rape, therefore he's guilty. What evidence do you have that he's not guilty?
No the evidence for his guilt was clearly highlighted itt. I have never once stated that Avery was guilty of anything because he was convicted by a court or opined that courts were infallible (I stated the exact opposite in fact) & indeed gave an open invitation for valid examples of unfair due process via errors or corruption, as well as open invitations to specify valid examples of coercion for his creepy-ass nephew. I also gave invitations to refute Hamilton's dissenting argument & to justify Duffin, Rovner et al. I invited discussion re the law & AEDPA & re the initial verdicts which provisionally overturned Dassey's conviction.

Nothing was forthcoming & outright refusal to discuss Diffin ensued along with proud proclamations from certain posters how they never even bothered researching & were solely going by a netflix doc. So your utterly false claim simply doesn't wash. Avery's wrongful conviction for rape has also been thoroughly discussed & I don't do rinse repeat, sorry.

Only relevant issues that supporters need to address/offer are:

Whether or not the en banc verdict re Dassey can be validly refuted with sound argument.

Sound argument as to why SCOTUS is wrong for not hearing Dassey's case.

Sound argument for whether Avery is right or wrong in absolving LE re planted blood/other evidence.

Valid inarguable examples of coercion/other rights violations re Dassey's multiple confessions & sound argument for how coercion occurred on multiple occasions, highlighting why En Banc was wrong to uphold his conviction.

That's it. Everything else is superfluous noise, rehashed spam that doesn't bear entertaining yet again for the nth time in a apparent effort to bore people into submission.

As far as I'm concerned justice has been upheld & onus not on anyone who agrees with their guilt to prove it again to supporters' personal satisfaction but on supporters to show valid flaws in their due process. Endlessly rehashing what was covered by separate courts of law doesn't cut it. If that's all supporters have then they don't have a case.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:31 PM   #12082
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Re: Making a Murderer

Does Corpus have a bunch of paragraphs on his clipboard that he copies and pastes from or does he actually type out all these long posts individually each time?
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:54 PM   #12083
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by housenuts View Post
Would love to see corpus vile arguing Avery's rape guilt post conviction. He'd use the same arguments he's posting about murder. He was convicted of rape, therefore he's guilty. What evidence do you have that he's not guilty?
That's pretty much it - found guilty and therefore he did it - even though the facts came out and it took years for Steven to be exonerated.

The Beerntsen case proves the cops can and will prosecute an innocent man, and can win a conviction of an innocent man.
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:03 PM   #12084
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by corpus vile View Post
No you didn't, at no point during our exchange have you answered this- link it. Link where you specifically answered whether LE planted the blood showing Avery to be wrong when he absolves them, since it's so true. Or else stop blatantly lying your ass off, typical murderer groupie behaviour from you. But your refusal to answer& continued bluster, & pathological lying that you have answered when you haven't, despite the truth being easy top defend is duly noted & duly laughed at.
I'm not a 'murder groupie' as I have already pointed out. Every time you write that out, you prove yourself to be a desperate and intellectually bankrupt troll.

I'm not lying as anyone who's read my posts knows for themselves I have recently addressed the blood planting question in response to a post by you.

How can I put it in terms that might appeal to your special needs?



Spoiler:
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Old Yesterday, 03:28 AM   #12085
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by EfromPegTown View Post
Does Corpus have a bunch of paragraphs on his clipboard that he copies and pastes from or does he actually type out all these long posts individually each time?
The latter. Do supporters have anything to offer other than constant deflections onto little old me?
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Old Yesterday, 03:31 AM   #12086
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by proudfootz View Post
I'm not a 'murder groupie' as I have already pointed out. Every time you write that out, you prove yourself to be a desperate and intellectually bankrupt troll.

I'm not lying as anyone who's read my posts knows for themselves I have recently addressed the blood planting question in response to a post by you
.

Yeah you are & a lie repeated often enough does not become the truth. I asked you if Avery was now wrong when he absolved LE which you haven't answered. Your continued bluster is laughed at.

Quote:
proudfootz: Nobody but the person[s] who planted the blood really know who planted it.
You've zero evidence anyone planted it or anything else, just your whacky conspiraloon claims, which is typical murderer groupie behaviour. Not one of you in any case have ever been capable of supporting your dumb implausible positions, lol.

And was that your answer in post 12031?? You mean this bs you just stated which I'll actually quote again just for chuckles??

Quote:
Nobody but the person[s] who planted the blood really know who planted it
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...ostcount=12031


You still haven't answered properly as to whether Avery is correct or not re LE not planting the blood & what passed for your answer is laughed at too. You're simply unwilling to even go there justifying Avery's about face & I totally get that and yet again can't blame you, considering you'd look even more ridiculous than you've already made yourself look a bunch of times over itt.

Last edited by corpus vile; Yesterday at 03:43 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 05:16 AM   #12087
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by corpus vile View Post
Yeah you are [a murder groupie]...
Troll confirmed.

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a lie repeated often enough does not become the truth.
So why do you repeat the lie - even you realize repeating your tiresome lies neither makes them true or persuades anyone?

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I asked you if Avery was now wrong when he absolved LE which you haven't answered. Your continued bluster is laughed at.
I answer that I don't know. You might not like the answer, but it is a lie when you claim I made no answer.

The defense is allowed to suggest different scenarios that fit the evidence.

Quote:
You've zero evidence anyone planted it or anything else...
There's zero evidence the blood allegedly found in the RAV4 came from a cut on Steven's finger, yet you keep screeching about your 'theory'.

Hypocrite confirmed.

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...just your whacky conspiraloon claims, which is typical murderer groupie behaviour.
AFAICT there are no 'murder groupies' in this thread.

The only one who seems to fit that description is you: you think Steven is a murderer, and you think he is cuddly.

Quote:
Not one of you in any case have ever been capable of supporting your dumb implausible positions, lol.
I've supported my conclusions with observations of fact, logic, and reasoned argument.

I never have the need to resort to made-up words like 'conspiraloons' or blatantly lying about anyone being 'murder groupies'.

Quote:
And was that your answer in post 12031?? You mean this bs you just stated which I'll actually quote again just for chuckles??
So what? You don't like my answer. But that doesn't give you permission to lie repeatedly that I gave no answer.

Quote:
You still haven't answered properly as to whether Avery is correct or not re LE not planting the blood & what passed for your answer is laughed at too.
By 'answering properly' you mean giving you the answer you want?

Getting laughed at by trolls is the least of my worries.

Quote:
You're simply unwilling to even go there justifying Avery's about face
You seem to think I am required to agree with everything Steven says.

That is not the case.

Your simplistic black/white mode of thinking is probably what is making you so confused, because the real world is a little more complicated than you can handle.

Quote:
I totally get that and yet again can't blame you, considering you'd look even more ridiculous than you've already made yourself look a bunch of times over itt.
For me looking 'ridiculous' in the eyes of a dedicated troll such as you have proven to be is more like a badge of honor. If I found a poster as ignorant and angry as you are was agreeing with me, I'd have to take a hard look and see if I'd made an egregious error.

Normal and sane people don't seem to have any issues with my posts here.
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Old Yesterday, 06:46 AM   #12088
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Re: Making a Murderer

Lol whaddya mean you don't know? Do you agree with Avery's reasoning or his his reasoning incorrect and if so why? Hilarious you continue to try & slither away from addressing this. How does the scenario not only fit the evidence but actually nullify the previous claim that LE planted the blood? Were Buting & Strang wrong, as well as Zellner? (Again can't blame you for not wishing to dip into the can of worms such contrary rubbish presents. )

Quote:
There's zero evidence the blood allegedly found in the RAV4 came from a cut on Steven's finger, yet you keep screeching about your 'theory'.
Please cite verbatim where the court established what you just babbled. Otherwise you don't understand the meaning of words such as "theory" & "established fact". Just as you don't understand the meaning of "coercion" or "evidence".

Quote:
I've supported my conclusions with observations of fact, logic, and reasoned argument.
Again keep 'em coming.

Quote:
I never have the need to resort to made-up words like 'conspiraloons
You are a conspiraloon as your whackadoo musings on that JFK thread clearly prove & I remember you on PMF years ago strongly intimating that 9/11 was a nefarious conspiracy & you're proclaiming some form of conspiracy here so yeah you're a conspiraloon.
Saying "I don't know" isn't an answer certainly not a valid one within the specific context & your continued running away is a hoot.

Quote:
By 'answering properly' you mean giving you the answer you want?
No I mean you attempt to plausibly address Avery's about face & explain why it lines up with the evidence seeing as you claimed it does. I happen to know your answer is :
Quote:
I haven't a hope of justifying this abrupt about face as Avery & Zellnami point yet more fingers at yet more suspects completely contradicting their earlier spurious crap but don't wish to admit this so I'll bluster and evade and deflect instead
I just wanted to see if you'd man up to it or not.

Quote:
Your simplistic black/white mode of thinking
Hence my invitations to discuss potentially flawed/unfair due process, judicial decrees & evidence for a frame up. Think before you post Loudz...

Quote:
is probably what is making you so confused, because the real world is a little more complicated than you can handle.
Real world agrees with me that Avery & Dassey are guilty. Real world doesn't agree with your conspiralunacy or insistence on coercion.

Quote:
For me looking 'ridiculous'
...is par for the course on this and every single thread you've ever posted on, we know.

Quote:
Normal and sane people don't seem to have any issues with my posts here.
Normal & sane people either have you on ignore or laugh at you. (hell I only took you off ig for chuckles & even now you're becoming your usual whingey snot nosed annoying self, with your usual repetitive spam, which is why I stuck you on ig to begin with). Your fellow conspiracy theorists don't count as "Normal and sane people" & you people are considered a laughing stock & divorced from reality, by sane & normal people.

And you've still provided nothing to back up your conspiraloon innocence fraud stupidity. Nor can you nor will you ever be able to, considering Avery & Dassey are truly guilty. You should shill for the likes of Adnan Syed instead, he's a potentially better chance than both your murderers who are going to stay in a cage.

'Bye now.
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Old Yesterday, 07:02 AM   #12089
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Re: Making a Murderer

The subject of 'raising the bar' has been brought up.

Here's an article detailing how Wisconsin's 'Denny Rule' gives the state even more power over citizens:

...as the defense attorney Jerry Buting lamented in the documentary, the judge used Wisconsin’s so-called Denny rule (State v. Denny, 120 Wis. 2d 614 (Ct. App. 1984)) to prevent the defense from arguing that a specific third party, other than Avery and his codefendant, had killed Halbach. Sure, the defense team was free to contend that Avery wasn’t responsible for the crime, but they were prevented from telling the jury who they thought had committed it.

The Denny rule is a bizarre double standard that often operates to shut down third-party defenses that might be brought by defendants. It does this by placing a much higher evidentiary burden on defendants than on the state.

For example, in order to use a third-party defense at trial, a defendant must first prove there is “a direct connection” between the third party and the crime. Yet when it comes to the prosecutor’s case, the jury will be instructed that circumstantial evidence “is not necessarily better or worse than direct evidence.”

Further, even when a defendant is able to provide direct evidence of a third party’s guilt, Denny still shuts down the defense. How? By also requiring the defendant to prove the third party’s motive for the crime. Here then comes yet another double standard, since the jury will be instructed that “the state is not required to prove motive on the part of a defendant in order to convict.”

Denny is an irrational, truth-suppressing rule that Avery’s trial and appellate judges used to foreclose his third-party defense in the Halbach murder case. Even worse, the application of Denny to Avery’s first case not only resulted in a wrongful conviction but also allowed a rapist (Gregory Allen) to roam free.


https://wislawjournal.com/2016/06/06...turning-denny/
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Old Yesterday, 08:27 AM   #12090
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Re: Making a Murderer

Zellner has failed to show how Denny is unjustified or meet Brady violations in her latest filings.

Quote:
Denny is firm, however, that three factors be present, implying that "opportunity" and "direct connection" have distinct meaning. Thus, the fact that a person with a motive to commit the crime is present at the crime scene is not enough to satisfy both "opportunity" and "direct connection."
state vs Wilson
Mere speculation on Zellcat's part doesn't cut it.
Quote:
In theory, many people may qualify as having the opportunity to commit a crime by virtue of their presence at the crime scene or their presence (at the time of the crime) in the vicinity of the crime scene. But presence does not necessarily create either motive or direct connection; and presence does not necessarily move the defendant's theory beyond speculation, even when other evidence does not eliminate a third-party as having the opportunity to commit the crime.
Quote:
Third, is there evidence that the alleged third-party perpetrator actually committed the crime, directly or indirectly? This is the direct connection prong. Logically, direct connection evidence should firm up the defendant's theory of the crime and take it beyond mere speculation. It is the defendant's responsibility to show a legitimate tendency that the alleged third-party perpetrator committed the crime.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/wi-supre...t/1700612.html

Nobody is arguing re Avery's wrongful conviction for rape. He wasn't actually "framed" for it though nor is there any evidence for this just more conspiracy theories from you.

Lol at that article btw whinging that the defence can't start pointing fingers at Tom Dick & Harry without any proof to support their accusations as if mere accusation should supersede actual evidence submitted to the court.

Last edited by corpus vile; Yesterday at 08:46 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 08:34 AM   #12091
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Nobody is arguing re Avery's wrongful conviction for rape. He wasn't actually "framed" for it though nor is there any evidence for this just more conspiracy theories from you.
You're right, he wasn't "framed". The police just did everything in their power to make sure he was convicted, including making the witness sketch look like cuddly bear.
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Old Yesterday, 09:14 AM   #12092
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Re: Making a Murderer

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You're right, he wasn't "framed". The police just did everything in their power to make sure he was convicted, including making the witness sketch look like cuddly bear.
I'm not interested in your mere intimations nor am I rehashing what was already covered itt. Do you have actual evidence Avery was fuhreelz "framed" for rape or not?
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Old Yesterday, 09:18 AM   #12093
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Re: Making a Murderer

Can you read?
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM   #12094
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Can you read?
Yeah, do you know what the word "evidence" means? All you're doing is rehashing already long refuted crap. A PI for Avery's appellate lawyer made the Kusch allegation which was rejected by the appellate court which found no impropriety. His lawyer in the civil suit didn't even make this allegation due to it being dumb. And again this was already covered itt yet more proof by assertion bollocks from you lot. Do you have anything new at all to bring to the table? Or just more patented repetition?

So again do you have any actual evidence to support your rejected claim? As in stuff that wasn't already covered? If not then your false claim is dismissed, and I also reiterate that you people have no case here if you need to engage in rinse repeat all you're doing is embarrassing yourselves even further than you already have, if such a thing is even possible at this stage.

Anyway keep holding your torches & best of luck too.
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Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM   #12095
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Re: Making a Murderer

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You're right, he wasn't "framed". The police just did everything in their power to make sure he was convicted, including making the witness sketch look like cuddly bear.
I think 'framing' is a useful word to describe dismissing more than a dozen witnesses and other evidence that proved Steven could not possibly have committed the crime, and then traced his photo as if it were a sketch based on her description to push on the traumatized victim.

Having already demonstrably framed and convicted Steven for a crime he did not commit in the 1985 case, it's no big stretch to suspect they did it again in the 2005 case.

Framers gonna frame.
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Old Today, 03:43 AM   #12096
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Re: Making a Murderer

Yeah & groupies gonna group & conspiraloons gonna rant 'n' rave ...
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Old Today, 06:50 AM   #12097
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Re: Making a Murderer

Yep, badge bunnies are probably the very ones who came up with the theory that New York Jews came to Wisconsin with the motive to make a deceptive anti-cop propaganda piece that would undermine Western Civilization with the cooperation of Netflix and the Illuminati.
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Old Today, 07:15 AM   #12098
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Re: Making a Murderer

lol

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