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Old 07-10-2018, 10:54 PM   #12026
blackize5
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Re: Making a Murderer

Yeah. It's been almost a decade since I looked into this but many departments have hiring practices that deny applicants of high IQ. It's even been upheld in court https://reason.com/blog/2013/05/01/c...ople-from-beco
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:28 AM   #12027
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by proudfootz View Post
I don't defend any of those people you mention - you continue to misrepresent posters on this thread. Is it because you have no plausible response to what people actually write?
Loudz...did LE plant the blood against Avery, yes or no?

Quote:
The fact is, you are the one 'raising the bar' suggesting it's OK for the prosecution to change its story whenever it is convenient but somehow not OK for anyone else. Either both can change, or neither should. You seem to prefer the double-standard approach, which is pure unadulterated hypocrisy.
I'm not "suggesting" it. Prosecution are allowed to change their theories, end of story & you're engaging in a false equivalency. So yeah if you need to raise bars for special little guys then you have no case here.



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Zellner's record speaks for itself - getting innocent people out of prison is her career. That you have to pretend she's not an accomplished lawyer is more evidence that you prefer to live in a fantasy land of your own creation.
She's a shyster. She doesn't even seem understand what a Brady violation is.



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We already have evidence that LE suborned perjury to try and obtain a conviction.
You have zero evidence anything was manufactured.

Quote:
It remains to be seen who all was involved.
Yeah best of luck with that too.



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You are just flat out wrong (again).
No I'm not. Cite verbatim where the court establishef that LE maufactured evidence or else again you have no case here. Explain why Cuddly Bear is wrong whe he says he wasn't framed by LE.

Quote:
LE fed 'facts' to Brendan as everyone can hear, and when he repeats what is suggested to him it is used as 'evidence' of his 'guilty knowledge'. The cops who are interrogating Brendan sound more like they are confessing since they do virtually all the talking. It is simply a fact - yet another one you refuse to deal with in an adult and rational manner.
So you can't provide examples of coercion. Surprise surpise...



Quote:
As I already clearly stated and repeat if your seeing the words a second time will help with your comprehension, LE is definitely involved in framing him for the 2005 case much like they wrongfully accused him in the 1985 case.

These LE leopards don't change their corrupt spots.
Nah you said that was due to their questioning of Dassey. Did LE plant the blood against Avery yes or no? You have provided zero evidence of LE corruption.Why break a trend?
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:26 AM   #12028
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Re: Making a Murderer

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5 View Post
Yeah. It's been almost a decade since I looked into this but many departments have hiring practices that deny applicants of high IQ. It's even been upheld in court https://reason.com/blog/2013/05/01/c...ople-from-beco
It must be easier to maintain the traditions of the unit when you weed out the people who can think for themselves.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:54 AM   #12029
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by corpus vile View Post
I'm not "suggesting" it. Prosecution are allowed to change their theories, end of story & you're engaging in a false equivalency. So yeah if you need to raise bars for special little guys then you have no case here.
Yes, you have championed having a double standard before - the prosecution doubts its own theory and puts forward two contradictory narratives only because it helps them 'win'. Meanwhile, if someone else improves their understanding because of new evidence, you throw a snit fit.

It's patently obvious you are lowering the bar for the state and raising it for the defense. Hypocrisy at its most despicable.

Quote:
She's a shyster. She doesn't even seem understand what a Brady violation is.
Meanwhile, here's some information from people who actually know what they are talking about instead of slasher film fanatics:

"One of the most successful trial lawyers of our time...

Her [Kathleen Zellner's] firm has gotten seven men released from death row and is in the process of helping two others she believes will be released.

Her success has been noticed. In 2000, she was selected as one of the top ten trial attorneys in the United States by the National Law Journal. And the same publication, in 2001, named her one of the top women trial lawyers in the United States. She has also been awarded for her pro bono work."

Meanwhile, your hero Ken 'The Prize' Katz has lost his job as a prosecutor due to his unprofessional raping of clients and conducting public business while high on drugs.



Quote:
You have zero evidence anything was manufactured.
The LE suborning perjury to use as 'evidence' as they are documented doing in the videos they themselves created is something to be avoided.

Obviously, you seem to think it's fine for cops to lie as a part of their job description and for the prosecution to advance theories they don't even believe in to make sure random people go to prison.

I'm the opposite of you. I'd rather have police who were interested in discovering the truth than pursuing personal vendettas and prosecutors who were more interested in justice than molesting vulnerable women.

Quote:
Cuddly Bear

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Nah you said that was due to their questioning of Dassey.
Yes, the manipulation of Brendan Dassey to secure a conviction of Steven Avery is called 'framing'. Of course, LE had a hardon for Steven for a long time, as evidenced by their framing him for a serious crime in 1985.

Again, the facts are on my side.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:33 AM   #12030
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by proudfootz View Post
Yes, you have championed having a double standard before - the prosecution doubts its own theory and puts forward two contradictory narratives only because it helps them 'win'.
Already thoroughly covered itt. Certainty isn't possible so the prosecution are allowed to pitch theories that line up with the evidence to a jury's satisfaction. That's it. You're simply raising bars as always for special little guys.


Quote:
Meanwhile, if someone else improves their understanding because of new evidence, you throw a snit fit.
I'm simply asking you whether you agree or not with Avery that LE now didn't plant the blood. Do you or not? Also there is no "new evidence" & neither you or Zellner seem to know what evidence is.

Quote:
It's patently obvious you are lowering the bar for the state and raising it for the defense. Hypocrisy at its most despicable.
I haven't lowered one single bar in order to highlight my agreement with separate courts. I have no need to & not my style anyway. You're simply engaging in the standard murderer groupie trope of rejecting multiple courts of law for special little guys, while never validly being able to specify how the court erred, while innuendo & speculation is perfectly sufficient for others, such as LE or Ninja Ryan or whoever else you lot blame this week with your utterly pathetic "anyone but the convicted killer!" defence.

rest of your sychophantic bs re Zellcat doesn't bear entertaining as she still doesn't know what a Brady violation is. Or evidence. Or what the word "exoneration" means. All she does is tweet contrary bs via "sprint" & "marathon" analogies, lol.


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Meanwhile, your hero Ken 'The Prize' Katz has lost his job as a prosecutor due to his unprofessional raping of clients and conducting public business while high on drugs.
I have no interest in Kratz & am apathetic toward him, nor does he have a rape conviction- there you go showing your patented inconsistency again. Nor would I care if he was later convicted of mass murder, for example. All that's relevant is if he engaged in any impropriety during either murderer's due process. He didn't. I totally get that you think he's a douche though.


Quote:
The LE suborning perjury to use as 'evidence' as they are documented doing in the videos they themselves created is something to be avoided.
Again zero evidence of LE corruption & your proof by assertion fallacy is laughed at.

Quote:
Obviously, you seem to think it's fine for cops to lie as a part of their job description and for the prosecution to advance theories they don't even believe in to make sure random people go to prison.
Both are permitted under the current system, there y'go raising bars again & getting derisively laughed at in the process.

Quote:
I'm the opposite of you.
I know. I analyse & interpret the totality of the facts & evidence. You're a conspiracy theorist who has failed miserably to defend your position in any way shape or form. You conflate defence argument with evidence, raise & lower bars accordingly, show different burdens of proof standards for different people & seem a semi paranoiac with a weird grudge against authority, by rote.


Quote:
Yes, the manipulation of Brendan Dassey to secure a conviction of Steven Avery is called 'framing'. Of course, LE had a hardon for Steven for a long time, as evidenced by their framing him for a serious crime in 1985.

Again, the facts are on my side.
Lol no they aren't & I see you're still unwilling/unable to answer whether LE planted the blood on Avery or not. Did they? Cuddly Bear thinks they didn't so what say you, Loudz? Also as has been further thoroughly pointedout itt is that LE had no need to go after Dassey in order to frame cuddles & nobody sane cares about your endlessly rehashed spam, at this point. Now. Did LE plant the blood on your hero Avery? Or not?*munches more popcorn*
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:10 PM   #12031
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by corpus vile View Post
Already thoroughly covered itt. Certainty isn't possible so the prosecution are allowed to pitch theories that line up with the evidence to a jury's satisfaction. That's it. You're simply raising bars as always for special little guys.
Nope. Your bitching about the defense pitching theories that line up with the facts shows you have a hypocritical double standard.



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I'm simply asking you whether you agree or not with Avery that LE now didn't plant the blood. Do you or not? Also there is no "new evidence" & neither you or Zellner seem to know what evidence is.
Nobody but the person[s] who planted the blood really know who planted it. It's OK for the defense to pitch theories that line up with the evidence.

Unless you want to 'raise the bar' for the defense...?

Quote:
I haven't lowered one single bar in order to highlight my agreement with separate courts. I have no need to & not my style anyway. You're simply engaging in the standard murderer groupie trope of rejecting multiple courts of law for special little guys, while never validly being able to specify how the court erred, while innuendo & speculation is perfectly sufficient for others, such as LE or Ninja Ryan or whoever else you lot blame this week with your utterly pathetic "anyone but the convicted killer!" defence.
I'm not a murder groupie - that would more aptly describe someone like you who watches every torture porn film released in this and any other market and is compelled to blab about it on every available forum.

The only confirmed murder groupie in this thread seems to be corpus vile.

Quote:
rest of your sychophantic bs re Zellcat doesn't bear entertaining as she still doesn't know what a Brady violation is. Or evidence. Or what the word "exoneration" means. All she does is tweet contrary bs via "sprint" & "marathon" analogies, lol.
Zellner is a highly successful and highly regarded public person. while you are an internet troll.

Hmmm. Whom should I pay attention to..?
Quote:
I have no interest in Kratz & am apathetic toward him, nor does he have a rape conviction- there you go showing your patented inconsistency again. Nor would I care if he was later convicted of mass murder, for example. All that's relevant is if he engaged in any impropriety during either murderer's due process. He didn't. I totally get that you think he's a douche though.
Yet you defend every crappy thing Kratz did, like presenting to the jury theories of the alleged crime which he himself did not find persuasive. Kratz was also high on drugs during the trials of Avery and Dassey.

Quote:
Again zero evidence of LE corruption & your proof by assertion fallacy is laughed at.
Every intelligent person who views the videos LE made can see for themselves cops feeding Brendan the 'facts' that were later used as 'evidence'. Framing, pure and simple.

Quote:
Both are permitted under the current system, there y'go raising bars again & getting derisively laughed at in the process.
Yes, I know you are quite comfortable with lying on the part of police and prosecution.

Sane people disagree with your position.

Law enforcement and public prosecutors should be held to at least as high a standard as ordinary citizens, if not a higher standard due to their elevated power to ruin innocent people's lives due to their lies.

Quote:
I know. I analyse & interpret the totality of the facts & evidence. You're a conspiracy theorist who has failed miserably to defend your position in any way shape or form. You conflate defence argument with evidence, raise & lower bars accordingly, show different burdens of proof standards for different people & seem a semi paranoiac with a weird grudge against authority, by rote.
Again, you choose to engage in flights of fantasy instead of dealing with reality.

I hold prosecution and defense to the same standard, you defend a double standard.

I show that Zellner is both highly respected and successful, you denigrate her.

I offer facts, you offer weird ad hominems wholly based on your own twisted imagination.

That's pretty much the difference between us.

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...Cuddly Bear...
Your unrequited infatuation with Steven Avery seems to be leading you to an unreasonable hostility toward him, and by extension anyone who argues for truth and justice.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:23 PM   #12032
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Re: Making a Murderer

Meanwhile, new revelations about exculpatory evidence withheld by the state is making waves...

Jerome Buting ‏ @JButing 2h2 hours ago

Recall, KK had gall to object with self-righteous indignation to my closing argument calling his star witness BD the possible killer, hiding behind pretrial ruling he deceitfully obtained by withholding exculpatory evidence of BD’s motive. #MakingAMurderer


https://twitter.com/JButing/status/1017049211592945669
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:17 PM   #12033
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Re: Making a Murderer

Vile cock strikes me as a guy who read a book about fallacies once and now can't make a single post without referencing that SOMEBODY has incurred a fallacy point against them.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:07 AM   #12034
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Re: Making a Murderer

Corpus vile, congrats on correctly predicting the outcome of both cases.

Your prize is an increased amount of hateful insults thrown your way from those who ignorantly thought you were wrong.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:00 AM   #12035
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Re: Making a Murderer

FYI The Staircase started out embedded with both sides but after several months the DA decided to stop participating

I vaguely think it might have involved a new DA. Even though the whole thing took place over a long period of time the number of different DAs involved seemed exceptionally large.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:01 AM   #12036
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by PoorSkillz View Post
Corpus vile, congrats on correctly predicting the outcome of both cases.

Your prize is an increased amount of hateful insults thrown your way from those who ignorantly thought you were wrong.
Yeah great job on him and you taking the ruling as some sort of vindication. Twit.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:05 AM   #12037
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Indeed we do. I believe he's guilty after studying the evidence & facts, so justice was indeed done as far as I'm concerned.

You go by what a deceptive & dishonest Netflix doc said & take it at face value, so obviously to you it's the greatest injustice ever in the history of the universe or at the very least you're somewhat miffed.

Yet despite all you murderer advocates chagrin at such an outcome, not one of you can provide any evidence for coercion & certainly not innocence. Nor can you provide any evidence of unfair due process or LE corruption. Just vague generalisations & conspiracy theories & an inability to understand the meaning of words, such as "coercion". But want Dassey free anyways just cuz netflix engaged in a PR piece. Even if you can't justify your position in the slightest.

You people are ultimately bottom line dangerous, quite frankly speaking. Impervious to facts evidence or reason but pure adherents to a bs innocence fraud narrative. Such a blinkered mindset shows utter contempt & disrespect for murder victims as it prioritizes a narrative over everything has potentially very dangerous ramifications for society . I'll take being considered a not very nice person by you & the rest of your fellow populist false conviction chic fan club over such an utterly emotive, patently ludicrous dangerous mindset any day of the week, thanks.

Your murderers are going nowhere. Justice has been done. You people should move on as I'm sure there's plenty of other factually guilty convicted killers for you all to light a candle for as they fervently wait for Netflix to greenlight their tragic story of wrongful conviction etc blah blah, so people like you can swallow it hook line & sinker.
Lol you.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:40 AM   #12038
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by proudfootz View Post
Nope. Your bitching about the defense pitching theories that line up with the facts shows you have a hypocritical double standard.

But they didn't line up with the facts, hence the reason such theories were rejected. Did LE plant the blood or not?



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Nobody but the person[s] who planted the blood really know who planted it. It's OK for the defense to pitch theories that line up with the evidence.
Did LE plant it? Provide evidence it was planted thanks.


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I'm not a murder groupie
Yeah you are & indeed a poster boy for murderer groupies everywhere.


Now yet again...did LE plant the blood or not, blowhard?
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:42 AM   #12039
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by master3004 View Post
Vile cock strikes me as a guy who read a book about fallacies once and now can't make a single post without referencing that SOMEBODY has incurred a fallacy point against them.
I couldn't give two f***s what you think. Maybe if you murderer groupie trolls stopped engaging in consistent fallacies, I wouldn't have to point them out. Would also be nice if you could defend your position with anything valid. (as in just once)

Last edited by corpus vile; 07-12-2018 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:44 AM   #12040
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by markksman View Post
Yeah great job on him and you taking the ruling as some sort of vindication. Twit.
You murderer groupies were asked to specify how the courts erred lots of times and all you offered in return were tumbleweeds punctuated by the occasional cricket. So it is a vindication & your murderers are now screwed. Deal with it and move on.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:47 AM   #12041
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Lol you.
Gosh when you put it like that with such inarguable logic...
Lol you, still unable to provide specific inarguable examples of coercion & reduced to trolling instead. Provide those examples blowhard. I won't hold my breath

Last edited by corpus vile; 07-12-2018 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:50 AM   #12042
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by PoorSkillz View Post
Corpus vile, congrats on correctly predicting the outcome of both cases.

Your prize is an increased amount of hateful insults thrown your way from those who ignorantly thought you were wrong.
Groupies gonna group. (and whinge incessantly when their fraudulent innocence narrative bubble is definitively burst )
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:35 AM   #12043
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by markksman View Post
FYI The Staircase started out embedded with both sides but after several months the DA decided to stop participating

I vaguely think it might have involved a new DA. Even though the whole thing took place over a long period of time the number of different DAs involved seemed exceptionally large.
Given how sketchy some of the characters on the prosecution side were, it's no surprise they wouldn't want their preparations for the trial documented.

Blood analyst Duane Deaver preparing his false testimony would make great television. Sadly, the corruption of the state robbed us of the opportunity of seeing exactly how they go about securing wrongful convictions.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:57 AM   #12044
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Re: Making a Murderer

In other news, Len Kachinsky (the guy who helped ruin Brendan Dassey's defense) has been jailed on a felony charge.

Somehow no surprise another one of the legal eagles involved in this fiasco turns out to be a criminal sex freak who thinks he will never be held accountable.




http://www.wbay.com/content/news/Jud...487932641.html
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:17 AM   #12045
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by corpus vile View Post
I couldn't give two f***s what you think. Maybe if you murderer groupie trolls stopped engaging in consistent fallacies, I wouldn't have to point them out. Would also be nice if you could defend your position with anything valid. (as in just once)
What's the logical fallacy for when you libel a group of people as murder groupies?
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:30 AM   #12046
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Re: Making a Murderer

Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz View Post
In other news, Len Kachinsky (the guy who helped ruin Brendan Dassey's defense) has been jailed on a felony charge.

Somehow no surprise another one of the legal eagles involved in this fiasco turns out to be a criminal sex freak who thinks he will never be held accountable.




http://www.wbay.com/content/news/Jud...487932641.html
And the winner for the creepiest mugshot of 2018 is...*tears envelope* Yes it's Len Kachinsky narrowly beating the Golden State Killer come on up here Len!

In other news murderer groupies yet again show their inconsistency as an arrest is sufficient for creepy Len while multiple convictions are rejected for special little guys like Cuddly Bear Avery & Babe in the Woods Brendan.

In yet other news still Loudz still shows himself unwilling or unable to opine whether or not LE did or didn't plant the blood to railroad poor Stevie bear. Will he opine that his hero Avery is wrong & LE did in fact plant it? Or is his hero right & Loudz himself was wrong?(yet again).
Stay tuned
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:33 AM   #12047
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Re: Making a Murderer

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What's the logical fallacy for when you libel a group of people as murder groupies?
It's known as 'corpus vilification'...
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:39 AM   #12048
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by master3004 View Post
What's the logical fallacy for when you libel a group of people as murder groupies?
Who says it's libel? They're libeling the Halbach family on this thread with their earlier sleazy scurrilous intimations on the murder victim's brother which is victim denigration which is textbook behaviour by murderer groupies everywhere. Not to mention an insistence on proclaiming the murderers innocent in the face of the facts & evidence & attacking the cops, prosecution courts juries and anything else that refutes their innocence fraud crap, yet more standard murderer groupie tactics & behaviour. Calling it as I see it & I'm not the only poster who's noticed it either. What's the logical fallacy for your argumentum ad hominem & tiresome semi trolling?

You & the rest of your addled ilk have failed to provide so much as a scintilla of evidence to back up your tiresome murderer fanboy bollocks. Not one valid example of coercion not a modicum of proof for a frame up, just endless rehashed hot air from you lot. If the majority of advocates itt aren't murderer groupies then they do a damn good impression of them.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:44 AM   #12049
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by proudfootz View Post
It's known as 'corpus vilification'...
Yeah tell Cuddly Bear & Dassey in the fan mail you undoubtedly send them that I said hello & one day I might even send them a file in a cake if I'm feeling generous. Oh and also tell them (as if they need to be told) to try not piss off the hacks too much
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:47 AM   #12050
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Re: Making a Murderer

Meanwhile real lawyers explain what a Brady violation is and how Ken 'Drug Addled Sexual Predator' Kratz kept exculpatory evidence from the jury.

Zellner, by reply, has asserted that the state’s failure to disclose the CD in question to Avery’s original attorneys—Dean Strang & Jerome Buting—back in 2006, before Avery’s trial the following year, followed by further requests in 2017—before the trial court filed its order—constitutes a clear Brady Violation.

Buting’s affidavit—dated Nov. 13, 2017, laid claim that neither the CD in question, nor an investigative report by Detective Mike Velie, was ever turned over in discovery prior to Avery’s trial—a claim supported by the omission of the CD and report catalogued in then District Attorney Kenneth Kratz’s discovery, dated Dec. 14th, 2006.

https://criminaljusticereformjournal...nt-the-record/
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