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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

11-30-2017 , 04:12 PM
"The Supreme Court has long recognized that a false promise is a powerful force in overcoming a person’s free will. A confession, in order to be admissible, must be free and voluntary: that is, must not be extracted by any sort of threats or violence, nor obtained by any direct or implied promises"

Cops to BD; Tell us and it will all be OK.

Yeh, half your life in prison as an 18-ish year old mentally challenged kid is definetilly "all will be OK", right?
11-30-2017 , 04:16 PM
"Having thoroughly reviewed the trial transcript, the court has no difficulty concluding that the admission of Dassey’s confession was not a harmless error. Dassey’s confession was, as a practical matter, the entirety of the case against him on each of the three counts."

Explain how this fits please, corpus
11-30-2017 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
Yeh this. Add to that BDs limited IQ which makes him not realise how serious this is at all, not even close, like he seriously thinks he can go to class after saying all that LOL.
It's astonishing that anyone would admit that they read/watched/heard the coaching sessions with Brendan and admit they find nothing wrong with them.

I suppose if someone is emotionally committed to the idea of Brendan's alleged involvement it requires a certain commitment to appearing to be thick.
11-30-2017 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Right so you still can't back up your Travis Bickle style musings huh? Despite the truth being easy to defend? I'll just comfortably dismiss your ravings so & will also helpfully suggest a room with soft walls & some soothing muzak for you.
Your ability to post whilst clearly wearing a straight jacket is quite impressive btw. Do you use your nose? Honest question.
Who the hell is Travis Bickle? Honest question (no smiley face).
11-30-2017 , 04:25 PM
"For a federal court to grant habeas relief, a state court’s decision must be not merely wrong but so wrong that no reasonable judge could have reached that decision."

Corpus Vile, any thoughts on this?
11-30-2017 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Who the hell is Travis Bickle? Honest question (no smiley face).
It's apparent corpus vile lives in a fantasy world constructed of motion picture memes - Travis Bickle is a character from a movie.

You'll notice that corpus vile sometimes refers to people as 'it' - that is another trope from a film - a serial killer called 'Buffalo Bill' talks the same way about his victims. Corpus obviously identifies with Buffalo Bill.



On another thread corpus admits he is a big fan of 'slasher films' where pretty young women like Teresa Halbach exist only to be terrorized, tortured, murdered, and often mutilated and sometimes eaten by the serial killer 'hero'.

Based on corpus vile's interests, it would appear he is the only 'murder groupie' ITT.
11-30-2017 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
"The Supreme Court has long recognized that a false promise is a powerful force in overcoming a person’s free will. A confession, in order to be admissible, must be free and voluntary: that is, must not be extracted by any sort of threats or violence, nor obtained by any direct or implied promises"

Cops to BD; Tell us and it will all be OK.

Yeh, half your life in prison as an 18-ish year old mentally challenged kid is definetilly "all will be OK", right?
Please cite a specific explicit unequivocal inarguable example of a false promise of leniency given to Dassey. They specifically pressed upon him to tell them the truth.

How Avery never confessed when he has a lower IQ than Dassey?
11-30-2017 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
"Having thoroughly reviewed the trial transcript, the court has no difficulty concluding that the admission of Dassey’s confession was not a harmless error. Dassey’s confession was, as a practical matter, the entirety of the case against him on each of the three counts."

Explain how this fits please, corpus
Yeah this is why I said that Duffin & the majority had disregarded the facts & indeed Dassey's own testimony.
The entirety of the case against him isn't his confession nor was it the sole sample of evidence submitted against him.

Again please specify explicit false promises of leniency. Remember the truth is easy to defend and it's on your side... Right?
So please cite examples. Thanks
11-30-2017 , 05:18 PM
And btw I'm asking advocates to justify Duffin's/majority's reasoning not simply parrot what they said. Explain how their argument has more merit wrt the facts & law than Hamilton's. If you're all so quick to cite them like.
11-30-2017 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
"For a federal court to grant habeas relief, a state court’s decision must be not merely wrong but so wrong that no reasonable judge could have reached that decision."

Corpus Vile, any thoughts on this?
Yes. It's one of the reasons I'm so far optimistic he'll be overturned.

Do you genuinely truly honestly think that the state court's "decision was not merely wrong but so wrong that no reasonable judge could have reached that decision."?
12-01-2017 , 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Yes. It's one of the reasons I'm so far optimistic he'll be overturned.

Do you genuinely truly honestly think that the state court's "decision was not merely wrong but so wrong that no reasonable judge could have reached that decision."?
Yeh for sure, having seen the interviews.

For example they say "Just tell is the truth and all will be ok". Thats a false promise no? That all will be ok?
12-01-2017 , 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
Yeh for sure, having seen the interviews.

For example they say "Just tell is the truth and all will be ok". Thats a false promise no? That all will be ok?
I don't recall them saying "all" will be okay. Even if they did, that could be interpreted as Dassey would feel better once he got things off of his chest I'm asking for inarguable examples here, such as say a specific promise of no prison time if he just confessed, for instance. There are none & Dassey's told right from the start that no promises can be made.
At one point either Fassbender or Weigert tell him that he's nothing to worry about "so far from what I can see".

I'm not flat out denying they said that either to clarify as I'd need to go over the confession again, can you cite where they say this via the transcript page numbers? Provide the quote & link? Cheers.

Again why did Avery not confess? Why was Dassey not coerced on the stand under cross examination which was much harsher than his actual LE interrogation?

Do you think Duffin will be upheld if it's for sure? What about cases where suspects were treated much worse than Dassey, yet the SC ruled in the state's favour? Such as some of the cases cited by Duffin? Was SCOTUS therefore unreasonable when ruling in the states favour?

Do you think Hamilton's argument is unreasonable wrt the facts & interpretation of the law?

Last edited by corpus vile; 12-01-2017 at 05:44 AM.
12-01-2017 , 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
I don't recall them saying "all" will be okay. At one point either Fassbender or Weigert tell him that he's nothing to worry about from what they can see so far from what I can see

I'm not flat out denying they said that either to clarify as I'd need to go over the confession again, can you cite where they say this via the transcript page numbers? Provide the quote & link? Cheers.

Again why did Avery not confess?
I will later today post a link and where for that quote is.

Avery is much older and he has already been in prison and have lots of experience now with authorities which BD doesnt have.
12-01-2017 , 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
I will later today post a link and where for that quote is.

Avery is much older and he has already been in prison and have lots of experience now with authorities which BD doesnt have.
Hang on. I thought Dassey was coerced because of his "low IQ" & being "intellectually challenged". Yet Avery is more intellectually challenged than Dassey.
Are you now saying Dassey was coerced due to his youth & not his low IQ? Does that mean every teenager who confesses to a crime is automatically coerced simply by virtue of their age?
Also so what if Avery is much older are you now saying older people can't be coerced due to their age? If you're not saying that, then again how come Avery never confessed if he's a much lower IQ than Dassey?
If you are saying that then I'm dismissing it as it's irrelevant wrt alleged coercion or not.

Dassey had no previous experience of being cross examined on a stand in a court of law before yet he seemed remarkably resistant to suggestibility just as he was re Teresa's non existent tattoo.

So which is it? And how was he coerced during a much more softly softly interview by LE but not under combative cross examination?
Are you also saying that somebody who's "intellectually challenged" can learn from experience, such as Avery?

And again I'm actually asking you for clear unequivocal inarguable examples of false leniency promises, not things which are arguable. Can you provide any?

Btw have you viewed the entirety of his confession or just the parts in MAM?

Last edited by corpus vile; 12-01-2017 at 05:57 AM.
12-01-2017 , 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
Avery is much older and he has already been in prison and have lots of experience now with authorities which BD doesnt have.
It's clear as day that Brendan had no idea what was going to happen - that if he just told these cops who thought of him as their very own son, who promised they'd be on his side if he just repeated what they wanted to hear, that Brendan wouldn't have to worry if he told a story they liked - Brendan had no clue that if he 'confessed' to rape and murder he'd miss his afternoon classes.

As you correctly point out, Steven had been through the mill already and had spent half his life in jail because cops and their lies. That life experience counts for a lot.

By the time Brendan appeared in court he was already aware that the cops lied - they weren't on his side, weren't looking out for him, and were perfectly happy for him to go to prison for crimes he did not commit.

Not only did he learn that these cops lied to him and had some better knowledge when he came to court, but in the courtroom he wasn't alone facing these two creeps. Much easier for Brendan to go along with the cops story when no one is there to hear, as in the hours-long coaching sessions. A totally different situation in public with people present who are on his side.
12-01-2017 , 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Yeah this is why I said that Duffin & the majority had disregarded the facts & indeed Dassey's own testimony.
Just FYI Pokerisfunny - the above is just a blatant lie. Anyone who took the trouble to read Duffin's decision can see that the Magistrate cites numerous facts and takes Brendan's own testimony seriously - especially the bit where as soon as the cops leave the room and Brendan is a lone with his mother he recants the story the cops had him tell.

From the court decision corpus vile either hasn't read or is plain lying about:

Certain other details, such as the fact that Halbach had been shot in the head and that the battery to the RAV4 had been disconnected, apparently had not been publicly disclosed as of March 1, 2006. However, how Dassey came to say that Avery shot Halbach in the head offers perhaps the strongest indication that Dassey was, as he later would claim, at times guessing at the answers in an attempt to provide the investigators with the information they said they already knew. (See ECF Nos. 19-34 at 34, 98; 19-38 at 4- 5.)

The investigators knew that Halbach had been shot in the head and repeatedly told Dassey that they knew “something else was done. ... Something with the head.”
(ECF No. 19-25 at 60-63.) Dassey first said that Avery “cut off her hair,” his inflection suggesting more a question than a statement. (ECF No. 19-25 at 60; Ex. 43, Disc 1 at 11:57:45 AM.) After more prompting from the investigators, he then said that Avery “punched her.” (ECF No. 19-25 at 61.) Yet more prompting led to Dassey saying that, at Avery’s direction, he cut Halbach’s throat. (ECF No. 19-25 at 62.) Despite more prompting, eventually Dassey stated, “That’s all I can remember.” (ECF No. 19-25 at 63.) Having unsuccessfully gotten Dassey to tell them that Halbach had been shot in the head, much less who had shot her, Wiegert finally said, “All right, I’m just gonna come out and ask you. Who shot her in the head?” (ECF No. 19-25 at 63.) “He did,” Dassey replied. (ECF No. 19-25 at 63.) When asked why he did not say so earlier, Dassey said, “Cuz I couldn’t think of it.” (ECF No. 19-25 at 63.)

Anyone who takes a 'confession' seriously where the cops tell the accused what he's supposed to confess to has severe problems - corpus vile would have to be living in a fantasy world to claim that Duffin ignored facts or testimony.

Quote:
The entirety of the case against him isn't his confession nor was it the sole sample of evidence submitted against him.
There is zero forensic evidence that Brendan ever saw, met, touched, or had any contact whatsoever with Teresa Halbach. If there was it would have been used in court and cited by those claiming Brendan was guilty of some crime against her.

The so-called 'confession' is all there is, and it is unadulterated ****.

Quote:
Again please specify explicit false promises of leniency. Remember the truth is easy to defend and it's on your side... Right?

So please cite examples. Thanks
Again, in a thread where corpus vile is too cowardly to even read all the posts that reply to the garbage he posts, he writes 'the truth is easy to defend' - it says a lot that corpus has such a hard time defending his twisted version of reality.
12-01-2017 , 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
Yeh for sure, having seen the interviews.

For example they say "Just tell is the truth and all will be ok". That's a false promise no? That all will be ok?
"Talk about it, we're not just going to let you high and dry, we're gonna talk to your mom after this and we'll deal with this, the best we can for your good, OK? I PROMISE I will not let you high and dry, I'll stand behind you."

The word 'promise' is right there - and they did leave Brendan high and dry having gotten what they wanted.
12-01-2017 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
Anything thats not spoonfed/sugested to him. Like BD saying he shot her and not "im just going to go ahead and say it, you shot her right" - "oh.... ehhh, yes....."



He is probably not smart enough, if he was he would ask for a lawyer or deny everything they say. But he REALLY thinks if he says want they WANT to hear its all OK.

I, or any sane person of age that has normal IQ would NEVER ever in a million years "confess" to killing someone by cutting a throut, stabbing, raping etc etc. I dont think anyone with enough age and normal IQ would, except if the person had a total meltdown and wanted guilt of there chest, but BD didnt even seem to be close to a meltdown, just guessing and guessing for hours.



Like I said above, a REAL meltdown or something that shows serious and real emotions. Also the person should be able to say atleast a couple of things that happened without havent it spoonfed to him already.
Do you have training in psychology that you're basing these conclusions on, or are you just guessing?

Have you studied the phenomenon of false confessions extensively? Can you point to documented examples of intellectually disabled people confessing to crimes in the way that you describe? Can you cite research showing that intellectually disabled people ONLY confess to crimes in the way you describe and NEVER in the manner that happened in this case?

On another note - if you watch the entire confession, he's clearly not "spoon-fed" information throughout. I mean, there are points where he describes specific words that Avery used at different points, he describes Avery offering him a Coke before showing him Halbach tied up, and so on. Okay, maybe he's making stuff up, but he's not just parroting back what the detectives say.
12-01-2017 , 09:01 AM
LOL @ idea that Brendan was convicted on the charge of accepting a soft drink.
12-01-2017 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkasigh Making a Murderer
......he describes Avery offering him a Coke before showing him Halbach tied up, and so on. Okay, maybe he's making stuff up, but he's not just parroting back what the detectives say.
LOL. How come that BD couldnt tell them she got shot? Why did Wiegert say; “All right, I’m just gonna come out and ask you. Who shot her in the head?” ?

And you think that "Cuz I couldn’t think of it.” is a good reason for not "remembering" that?
12-01-2017 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
"The Supreme Court has long recognized that a false promise is a powerful force in overcoming a person’s free will. A confession, in order to be admissible, must be free and voluntary: that is, must not be extracted by any sort of threats or violence, nor obtained by any direct or implied promises"

Cops to BD; Tell us and it will all be OK.

Yeh, half your life in prison as an 18-ish year old mentally challenged kid is definitely "all will be OK", right?
Fassbender "It's OK, it's a big step..... a step toward feeling better about yourself, to recovery, to not crying at night because of this stuff happenin'........... what you saw. I PROMISE you I'll not let you hang out there alone, but we've gotta have the truth. The truth is gonna be terrible........ your mom..........."

Wiegert " We're not gonna run back and tell your grandma and grandpa what you told us or anything like that. OK."

During these coaching sessions Brendan didn't have enough experience with these lying sacks of **** to know these promises were false promises.
12-01-2017 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Anything thats not spoonfed/sugested to him. Like BD saying he shot her and not "im just going to go ahead and say it, you shot her right" - "oh.... ehhh, yes....."
Info wasn't spoonfed to him & this was already covered itt anyway. What are the specific inarguable promises of leniency?



Quote:
He is probably not smart enough, if he was he would ask for a lawyer or deny everything they say. But he REALLY thinks if he says want they WANT to hear its all OK
.
He's smarter than Avery who never confessed. Again is it his age or IQ?
12-01-2017 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
LOL. How come that BD couldnt tell them she got shot? Why did Wiegert say; “All right, I’m just gonna come out and ask you. Who shot her in the head?” ?

And you think that "Cuz I couldn’t think of it.” is a good reason for not "remembering" that?
Where do LE tell Dassey that Teresa was shot with a .22 in the left side of the head? Again Dassey knows this anyway, again this was already covered itt. Can you specify these explicit inarguable false leniency promises?
12-01-2017 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Info wasn't spoonfed to him & this was already covered itt anyway.
Yes, the spoon-feeding has been covered and shown to be an indisputable fact - reproduced on this very page as a matter of fact.

It certainly appears corpus vile is too dishonest to admit what is obvious to everyone who comprehends the English language.

Quote:
What are the specific inarguable promises of leniency?
More stuff already cited that corpus has on 'ignore' in his blind worship of coercive cops and corrupt prosecutors.

Quote:
He's smarter than Avery who never confessed. Again is it his age or IQ?
Pokerisfunny - you'll have to ask corpus vile to reproduce the transcripts of the Steven Avery questioning where they fed him evidence and asked him to 'confess' and promised they wouldn't tell anyone.

The fact is corpus doesn't have any evidence the two situations are in any way comparable.
12-01-2017 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile Making a Murderer
Where do LE tell Dassey that Teresa was shot with a .22 in the left side of the head? Again Dassey knows this anyway, again this was already covered itt. Can you specify these explicit inarguable false leniency promises?
Already covered in this thread - cops discussed the rifle previous to telling Brendan that Teresa was shot in the head (something Brendan didn't know until the cops told him) - then the cops told him she was shot in the side of the head.

So the rock-solid indisputable and inarguable 'evidence' Brendan witnessed this was that of two sides Brendan guessed the correct side?

LOL! If corpus was any more ignorant he could be mistaken for an inanimate object.

      
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