Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

11-04-2017 , 01:36 AM
Also to clarify for LITS. I am not saying the information is "old" I am saying its not "new" as far as the appeals courts would be concerned.
11-04-2017 , 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkasigh Making a Murderer
You're a moron.
  • Use name calling and ridicule. Associate opponents with derogatory words: 'kooks', 'ignorant', 'irrational', 'crap', 'biased', 'conspiracy theorists', 'worthless', 'cognitive dissonance' and so forth. This makes others back away because even if behind anonymity no one wants to be associated with those and other similar words.

Hi Andy.
11-04-2017 , 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Stuff Making a Murderer
This is actually quite interesting. This thread is for the topic of Making a Murderer, a 10 part documentary with the clear purpose of bringing to light the gross injustice's done to SA and BD from 2005 onward. Yet the person with by far the most posts, 2x as many as 2nd place, is someone who claims they believe SA is guilty and is fighting tooth and nail to say as much. For some people posting here (like me), the motive is only a do-gooder, justice-phile type of drive to see wrongs get righted. There is no other reason any of us could possibly have.

On the flip side though, I can't possibly think of a reason anyone one person would put in that much work and time in order to voice a contrary opinion to what the documentary clearly shows, especially since SA and BD are already in jail. The title of this thread is NOT "Making a Murderer is a Farce, and SA is guilty." The only thing that makes sense is that this is what you are paid to do. Otherwise its just absurd to have 2x as many posts when your stated opinions are CONTRARY to the theme of the docuseries and thus this thread.

One side has been PROVEN to have hired people to do exactly that and has clear financial and reputational motive to do everything in their power to sway public opinion, with the exact MO of infiltrating public forums and posting in the exact manner we see from those with extremely high posting counts continuously and mindlessly defending MCLE and DoJ. Something's just not right.

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 11-04-2017 at 05:21 AM.
11-04-2017 , 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
I don't think scott is agreeing with barb when he says "thats right" Hes talking in the background about the searches and what bobby knows.

And Barb is just stating her opinion. There is nothing in that conversation that indicates anyone told Barb Teresa left
I'm pretty sure Barb's publicly stated opinion has always been that "She left" (as it's almost a necessary belief to keep Brendan totally innocent), so there's nothing new there.

She also explained just a few days ago:





Looking at the bigger picture,

that Kathleen Zellner has gone from tweets that "Cellphone tower records of SA & TH provide airtight alibi for him." (an assertion never fleshed out in any motion)

to arguments based on hearsay and inference of opinions from transcripts of phone conversations between the Avery/Dassey family

just highlights the desperate lows Team Avery has now sunk to.


Can't say I didn't see it coming though.
11-04-2017 , 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Are you kidding me? How would barb know if Teresa left? She wasn't home. Clealry she thinks avery is innocent, shes stated so several times (well after the doc came out anyway) so of course she thinks teresa left. This isn't evidence of anything other than what barb thinks. There is no indication in that conversation that barb is saying someone told her she left.
The conversation at that point is about what Bobby said - Clearly Barb knows that's what Bobby said was in conflict with his testimony, as Steven points out. And it sounds like Scott agrees.

Quote:
Also scott is not even on the phone there, he is talking in the background and when he says "he doesnt know ****" hes talking about bobby.
That would have been good testimony at the trial to rebut Bobby's 'alternate fact' that Teresa was supposedly last seen going toward Steven's house.
11-04-2017 , 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
I don't think scott is agreeing with barb when he says "thats right" Hes talking in the background about the searches and what bobby knows.

And Barb is just stating her opinion. There is nothing in that conversation that indicates anyone told Barb Teresa left
...other than Steven reminds them of what Bobby said about seeing Teresa leave.
11-04-2017 , 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
I'm pretty sure Barb's publicly stated opinion has always been that "She left" (as it's almost a necessary belief to keep Brendan totally innocent), so there's nothing new there.

She also explained just a few days ago:





Looking at the bigger picture,

that Kathleen Zellner has gone from tweets that "Cellphone tower records of SA & TH provide airtight alibi for him." (an assertion never fleshed out in any motion)

to arguments based on hearsay and inference of opinions from transcripts of phone conversations between the Avery/Dassey family

just highlights the desperate lows Team Avery has now sunk to.


Can't say I didn't see it coming though.
Except for the part where she tells SA she knows ST couldn't have done it because SHE LEFT.
11-04-2017 , 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
This is actually quite interesting. This thread is for the topic of Making a Murderer, a 10 part documentary with the clear purpose of bringing to light the gross injustice's done to SA and BD from 2005 onward. Yet the person with by far the most posts, 2x as many as 2nd place, is someone who claims they believe SA is guilty and is fighting tooth and nail to say as much. For some people posting here (like me), the motive is only a do-gooder, justice-phile type of drive to see wrongs get righted. There is no other reason any of us could possibly have.

On the flip side though, I can't possibly think of a reason anyone one person would put in that much work and time in order to voice a contrary opinion to what the documentary clearly shows, especially since SA and BD are already in jail. The title of this thread is NOT "Making a Murderer is a Farce, and SA is guilty." The only thing that makes sense is that this is what you are paid to do. Otherwise its just absurd to have 2x as many posts when your stated opinions are CONTRARY to the theme of the docuseries and thus this thread.

One side has been PROVEN to have hired people to do exactly that and has clear financial and reputational motive to do everything in their power to sway public opinion, with the exact MO of infiltrating public forums and posting in the exact manner we see from those with extremely high posting counts continuously and mindlessly defending MCLE and DoJ. Something's just not right.
Lol, are you really on this again? No-one is getting paid to post here. The only reason I am obsessive is because I have aspergers and it is difficult for me to get into something and put it down.

As for why I care, I think making a murderer is nothing more than propaganda. While I can agree that pointing out injustice is certainly a noble cause, there was no injustice in this case and pointing out that the correct killer is behind bars when the victims family has been harassed and members of law enforcement with family have been threatened is equally as noble.
11-04-2017 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
The conversation at that point is about what Bobby said - Clearly Barb knows that's what Bobby said was in conflict with his testimony, as Steven points out. And it sounds like Scott agrees.
The conversation was jumping around. But all barb said was "yeah. she left" She didn't say. "Bobby told me she left" or "scott told me she left" or "I saw her leave" She is just stating her opinion.

Scott is not agreeing. Scott can only hear part of the conversation because he is not on the phone. That is why he keeps saying "give me the phone, let me talk to him" Scott can easily be saying "thats right" to the computer stuff which was the majority of the conversation up until that point and what scott kept commenting on.

Scott is not saying bobby doesn't know if teresa left. Scott is saying "he (bobby) doesn't know ****" about the murder. You are just trying to put your own spin on their words here.
11-04-2017 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
As for why I care, I think making a murderer is nothing more than propaganda.
And what is the purpose of this "propaganda"? lol. What possible political agenda could be forwarded as a result of someone believing what they saw in MaM actually contained some absolutely outrageous injustices to 2 innocent people?
The documentary makers just decided they were going to defame some random Wisconsin county's law enforcement by disseminating their propaganda?

That's completely absurd.
11-04-2017 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The only reason I am obsessive is because I have aspergers and it is difficult for me to get into something and put it down.
Well that explains a lot:

• limited or inappropriate social interactions
"robotic" or repetitive speech
• challenges with nonverbal communication (gestures, facial expression, etc.) coupled with average to above average verbal skills
• tendency to discuss self rather than others
inability to understand social/emotional issues or nonliteral phrases
• lack of eye contact or reciprocal conversation
obsession with specific, often unusual, topics
one-sided conversations
• awkward movements and/or mannerisms

If you really do have Asperger Syndrome (which I highly doubt) then maybe you should avoid posting in this thread. Your inability to understand social/emotional issues is not your fault.
11-04-2017 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
And what is the purpose of this "propaganda"? lol. What possible political agenda could be forwarded as a result of someone believing what they saw in MaM actually contained some absolutely outrageous injustices to 2 innocent people?
The documentary makers just decided they were going to defame some random Wisconsin county's law enforcement by disseminating their propaganda?

That's completely absurd.
I have no doubt the filmmakers believe hes innocent. The point of the propaganda was to illustrate why they think this.

Its clearly propaganda though. They edited testimony, omitted facts and distorted the truth.
11-04-2017 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
If you really do have Asperger Syndrome (which I highly doubt) then maybe you should avoid posting in this thread. Your inability to understand social/emotional issues is not your fault.
I could quite frankly give a **** less what you think or doubt. You doubt anyone could honestly think hes guilty so you have allowed yourself to become so delusional that you have professed to me someone you have never met that I am getting paid to do this. That illustrates your ability to reason is of little value.

My inability to understand emotional and social issues has prevented me from being misled by propaganda. Spooky music and facial expressions don't convince me someone is a murderer. Facts do.
11-04-2017 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The conversation was jumping around. But all barb said was "yeah. she left" She didn't say. "Bobby told me she left" or "scott told me she left" or "I saw her leave" She is just stating her opinion.

Scott is not agreeing. Scott can only hear part of the conversation because he is not on the phone. That is why he keeps saying "give me the phone, let me talk to him" Scott can easily be saying "thats right" to the computer stuff which was the majority of the conversation up until that point and what scott kept commenting on.

Scott is not saying bobby doesn't know if teresa left. Scott is saying "he (bobby) doesn't know ****" about the murder. You are just trying to put your own spin on their words here.
You are putting your own spin on the conversation - I am just reporting it as it reads.
11-04-2017 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
And what is the purpose of this "propaganda"? lol. What possible political agenda could be forwarded as a result of someone believing what they saw in MaM actually contained some absolutely outrageous injustices to 2 innocent people?
The documentary makers just decided they were going to defame some random Wisconsin county's law enforcement by disseminating their propaganda?

That's completely absurd.
Yes, apparently it's all some conspiracy against some random police outfit in the middle of nowhere for no reason whatsoever.

Give these guys a little time - pretty soon we'll find out Putin put Demos and Ricciardi up to making this un-American movie.
11-04-2017 , 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
You are putting your own spin on the conversation - I am just reporting it as it reads.
No. youre just quote-mining.
11-04-2017 , 09:37 PM
It's not that hard to figure out. A couple of law students thought this man was innocent. Thought documenting a frame job would be an interesting movie. Documented the whole thing inserted their own editing and lies into the thing when they discovered their case wasn't that compelling.

Then you have propaganda.

Loose change is propaganda. Are you going to say theres no motive there so it isn't? Wait, dont answer that proudfootz :P
11-04-2017 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
I have no doubt the filmmakers believe hes innocent. The point of the propaganda was to illustrate why they think this.

Its clearly propaganda though. They edited testimony, omitted facts and distorted the truth.
They edited their ten years of footage to be sure.

Why would they do this? Come on kid, think. Why would two random women simply decide someone is innocent AND THEN their propaganda campaign? What on earth would they get out of this? In your head, you think these two women purposely altered their footage and facts to paint a murdering, raping, mutilating psychopath in a good light? WTF is going on with logic? Wake up.
11-04-2017 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
I could quite frankly give a **** less what you think or doubt. You doubt anyone could honestly think hes guilty so you have allowed yourself to become so delusional that you have professed to me someone you have never met that I am getting paid to do this. That illustrates your ability to reason is of little value.

My inability to understand emotional and social issues has prevented me from being misled by propaganda. Spooky music and facial expressions don't convince me someone is a murderer. Facts do.
Your 1600 posts in a forum that is was created on the opposite side of the logic and justice spectrum tells me something is not right over there. I actually HOPE you're a shill, the other alternative is pretty scary.
11-04-2017 , 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
It's not that hard to figure out. A couple of law students thought this man was innocent. Thought documenting a frame job would be an interesting movie. Documented the whole thing inserted their own editing and lies into the thing when they discovered their case wasn't that compelling.

Then you have propaganda.

Loose change is propaganda. Are you going to say theres no motive there so it isn't? Wait, don't answer that proudfootz :P
Propaganda is always used to forward some political or social agenda. Your useage of the word propaganda is not correct here.

And Kathleen Zellner? Is this the one case where she got caught up and tricked by the documentarians and that sharp-as-a-fox Avery clan?
11-05-2017 , 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
They edited their ten years of footage to be sure.

Why would they do this? Come on kid, think. Why would two random women simply decide someone is innocent AND THEN their propaganda campaign? What on earth would they get out of this? In your head, you think these two women purposely altered their footage and facts to paint a murdering, raping, mutilating psychopath in a good light? WTF is going on with logic? Wake up.
Again, I do not think they think he is a murderer. I think they presented propaganda to convince others of their opinion.

Why do you think they altered footage, omitted facts and edited testimony to present their narrative? Do you think it was because they couldnt for example inclue the phrase "at least" when talking about the size of the bonfire and instead made it sound like strang was asking "You told police the bonfire was 3 ft high" did the words "at least" take up too much film space?

How about leaving out the part with Ryan where he said him and 3 other friends were getting into teresas computer and instead made it appear like he and this other guy were a couple of creeps? What was the reason for that if not to push an agenda?
11-05-2017 , 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Your 1600 posts in a forum that is was created on the opposite side of the logic and justice spectrum tells me something is not right over there.
Huh? What do you mean the "opposite side of the logic and justice spectrum" What does that even mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
I actually HOPE you're a shill, the other alternative is pretty scary.
What is scary is that there is a presumably regular human being that I am talking to right now who goes to work every day, votes for our elected officials, pays taxes and visits local public areas who actually thinks there are people who are paid to post on forums and pretend to think Avery is guilty. That is what is scary here.
11-05-2017 , 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Propaganda is always used to forward some political or social agenda. Your useage of the word propaganda is not correct here.
Definitions are arbitrary but using the word "propaganda" to describe a documentary that presents misleading information to promote a particular point of view is a common way to use the word. In fact if you just google the word you will see its in the most commonly used definition.

prop·a·gan·da
ˌpräpəˈɡandə/Submit
noun
1.
derogatory
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
"he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda"
synonyms: information, promotion, advertising, publicity, spin; More

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
And Kathleen Zellner? Is this the one case where she got caught up and tricked by the documentarians and that sharp-as-a-fox Avery clan?
A quick google search of the name "kathleen Zellner" will give you very good motive for her to take this case, regardless of how she feels about her clients actual innocence or guilt.

If you want my personal opinion, I believe the publicity was her primary motivation but I do think its likely she initially thought he was innocent or at least didn't get a fair trial. Who the **** knows what she thinks now, I can't imagine any sane person in her shoes would still think he isn't guilty.

Edit: Look up her search trends over the last 5 years. What do you suppose happened in jan of 2016 to get her so much attention? https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...leen%20Zellner

Last edited by fraleyight; 11-05-2017 at 12:19 AM.
11-05-2017 , 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
No. youre just quote-mining.
Leave it to you to try and spin a direct quote into something sinister.

Meanwhile you were just making things up.
11-05-2017 , 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Propaganda is always used to forward some political or social agenda. Your useage of the word propaganda is not correct here.

And Kathleen Zellner? Is this the one case where she got caught up and tricked by the documentarians and that sharp-as-a-fox Avery clan?
You'd think fraleyight would come up with a better conspiracy theory than that. Two film makers wake up one day and decide they're going to frame some cops. No reason. Just a wild hair. Then spend ten years of their life on this quest.

But these people don't see anything wrong with coercing false statements from a special needs teenager. FFS the cops recorded themselves pushing their story on the kid because they were so morally bankrupt they saw nothing wrong with manufacturing evidence!

      
m