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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

10-04-2017 , 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Footz,

No response to your homies motion for a new trial being rejected? Looks like I was right, Zellners "evidence" was neither "new" nor was it "evidence".
Indeed. Just a bunch of unsubstantiated claims, nothing more & no surprise at all that what passed for her motion was rejected. Avery's gonna die in prison.

Hopefully the same reason and sanity prevails regarding his accomplice.
10-04-2017 , 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
It's a disappointing decision by that judge.

Having looked over the new evidence, it is new and it is evidence.

I already knew it's difficult to get convictions overturned, so I'm not shocked.

But it's not over yet.
New evidence is defined as evidence that wouldn't be available during the trial or initial appeal. none of this qualifies.

Whether or not it is evidence that could change the outcome of the initial trial I guess we will just agree to disagree but considering there was a substantial arguments that tried to call into question the bullet and the hood latch, and considering those two pieces of evidence were small in comparison to the others IE: Rav 4, avery's blood, human remains, bonfire etc.. I will respectfully tell you I think you're wrong.

But it has to be both new and evidence that could change the outcome of the original trial, so even if it could do so with the latter requirement it isn't "new".
10-04-2017 , 04:19 PM
The examination of the bullet, for example, brought forth the new evidence that it had gone through wood not bone.

Obviously showing how dubious some of the claims of the prosecution are should have an influence on the original verdict.

Zellner will be filing a motion to vacate Judge Sutkiewicz's order, on the basis that the state already agreed to allow new evidence and new testing.

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...se+10.3.17.pdf
10-04-2017 , 05:42 PM
"The examination of the bullet, for example, brought forth the new evidence that it had gone through wood not bone"

I think you should read what the expert said again and also consider that the state never said it went through bone nor would it be relevant to the conclusion he is guilty. The bullet could have grazed her, could have passed through only tissue etc..

But most importantly this isn't "new" evidence because this kind of testing was available during his trial and his appeal.
10-06-2017 , 11:27 AM
More on the recent developments:

In an email to Rolling Stone, Zellner confirms that the judge was not aware of the agreement and that her decision came as a surprise to everyone involved.

"I am planning to discuss the situation with the prosecutor from the AG's office on Friday," Zellner writes. "They were also quite surprised by this ruling. Our hope is that we can enter into an agreed order to vacate the order with the AG, because we had agreed to test numerous additional items of evidence – including an examination of the RAV4 to determine if additional evidence could be gathered and tested.… In addition to the forensic tests, we informed the prosecutors in our face to face meeting on September 18, at their offices in Madison, Wisconsin, that we had three significant new witnesses on new Brady violations. Brady violations are the most frequent basis for convictions being vacated."

Zellner also says there are still "numerous items" listed on her original motion that have yet to be tested, suggesting that even without the new evidence, Judge Sutkiewicz's decision was based on an incomplete record. In her ruling, Sutkiewicz focused primarily on claims of evidence tampering, writing that test results related to the DNA found on Halbach's car key and car hood latch "inclusive." Zellner says of the judge's sparse six-page ruling contained "clear factual/legal errors" and "failed to even address certain issues." (Judge Sutkiewicz's office declined to comment.) Regardless, she says, "Our preference is to file an agreed motion with the AG to vacate this order."

Whether the AG's office will play ball remains to be seen – but yesterday, Wisconsin Attorney General Brad Schimel said he was "pleased" with Sutkiewicz's decision. (The Wisconsin Department of Justice did not immediately respond to a request for comment.)

"The bottom line is neither we nor Mr. Avery have any intention of giving up or not proceeding to fight for his exoneration – because he is absolutely innocent," Zellner tells Rolling Stone. "It is not uncommon for judges at the trial court level to prematurely dismiss post-conviction petitions and get reversed by a higher court. We will press on regardless of which path we have to take and we will ultimately succeed."



http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...-trial-w507080
10-06-2017 , 09:49 PM
So just a year ago Zellner had airtight alibis, eye witnesses and scientific testing that would exonerate avery (her claims) she has presented nothing of the sort as of yet, files a brief that contains none of these things; then requests more testing after filing her motion, doesn't notify the judge, gets her motion denied, files a request to vacate the motion with the court, doesn't mention any witnesses , now is claiming to have witnesses who can verify brady violations.... Her behavior has been unacceptable for an attorney and I hate to say this but I almost feel bad for Avery. He atleasts deserves an attorney who is more focused on her client than twitter and talking to conspiracy riddled news sites.

By the way, there are a couple of witnesses who mention a vehicle on hwy 147 in the caso report and one says its a jeep and other says its black, with no indication it was TH vehicle. So if that is what she is talking about; that isn't a brady violation because the defense received the caso report. Not that it matters though, I don't think she has any new witnesses because if she did, she would have mentionied them in her request to vacate.
10-07-2017 , 05:38 AM
Zellner knows it takes time to resolve these cases, and I suspect she knows better how this works than the typical anonymous contributor to a discussion board.
10-07-2017 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
I suspect she knows better how this works than the typical anonymous contributor to a discussion board.
This is what makes it unacceptable. Several people have pointed out exactly what the Judge said weeks prior to the decision. If other lawyers knew, Zellner should have too.

She should also stop misrepresenting her evidence to the public.
10-07-2017 , 06:13 PM
Until the case is heard in court I hesitate to speculate that the case is being misrepresented.
10-11-2017 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
But most importantly this isn't "new" evidence because this kind of testing was available during his trial and his appeal.
This is like saying that all cases that has been sentenced after DNA testing first come around are not eligble for that testing now, which they are right?
10-11-2017 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
This is like saying that all cases that has been sentenced after DNA testing first come around are not eligble for that testing now, which they are right?
NO it isn't. If new testing methods become available that can develop new information that is "new" evidence. All of Zelleners evidence is not "new". Several testing methods were available to determine which substances were on the bullet in 2005 Also the results of the testing isn't strong enough to change the outcome of the trial.
10-11-2017 , 08:32 PM
I'm content to wait for the content of the actual legal arguments rather than try to bluff my way through them as some like corpus vile prefers to do.
10-12-2017 , 01:24 AM
What legal arguments? Shes already filed her motion, her arguments have been made.
10-12-2017 , 03:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
What legal arguments? Shes already filed her motion, her arguments have been made.
Yep. And roundly rejected too.
Maybe Avery's groupies think she can amend her motion as in the one which was already submitted and rejected. Rather than file a new one, like.
10-12-2017 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
This is what makes it unacceptable. Several people have pointed out exactly what the Judge said weeks prior to the decision. If other lawyers knew, Zellner should have too.

She should also stop misrepresenting her evidence to the public.
Lol at "
I suspect she knows better how this works than the typical anonymous contributor to a discussion board."

She can't even submit to the correct court.
10-12-2017 , 11:54 AM
Yea, I don't for the life of me know how anyone can apologize for her actions.
10-12-2017 , 03:55 PM
I think defending innocent people is a good thing for lawyers to do.

It puzzles me that it puzzles anyone.
10-12-2017 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
What legal arguments? Shes already filed her motion, her arguments have been made.
https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...of+10.3.17.pdf
10-12-2017 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
There are no new arguments there. She doesn't even have results for her new tests yet, assuming those results could even have the potential to change a trial (which there is no reason to think they could) what could possibly be gained from testing the rav 4 and hood latch that would change the trial?

Either way, her actual arguments that she thought were sufficient have already been presented and rejected. She has nothing else.
10-12-2017 , 08:38 PM
Zellner's record getting innocent people out of wrongful convictions is pretty good.

That's plenty of reason for me to bet on her rather than random internet dude.
10-13-2017 , 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Zellner's record getting innocent people out of wrongful convictions is pretty good.

That's plenty of reason for me to bet on her rather than random internet dude.
This is a blatant argument from authority. It also doesn't answer anything.
10-13-2017 , 03:03 AM
Argument from authority is pretty valid in this situation. I mean we're talking filings and statements of an expert in her field vs the speculations of a raving autist.
10-13-2017 , 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
This is a blatant argument from authority. It also doesn't answer anything.
Neither one of us knows enough about the law to argue the case.

This is why there are appellate courts and lawyers.
10-13-2017 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5 Making a Murderer
Argument from authority is pretty valid in this situation. I mean we're talking filings and statements of an expert in her field vs the speculations of a raving autist.
No it isn't valid. You're missing the point. It's not about me vs her and who knows more. Its about presenting her as a reliable source instead of the actual arguments shes made that have been responded to by lawyers and judges.

David Irving is probably the leading expert on nazi history and the third reich; he also happens to be a holocaust denier. If I were to get into an argument with a holocaust denier would it be sufficient to argue "david irving said" as a basis for what conclusions are justified? Or should we each present arguments? That is why its fallacious.

Not to mention, Zellner has a history (at least in this case) of lying and making unforgivable blunders that an attorney shouldn't make.
10-13-2017 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Argument from authority is pretty valid in this situation
"the defendant has failed to establish any grounds that would trigger the right to a new trial in the interests of justice." - Judge Sutkiewicz (10/03/2017)

      
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