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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

06-12-2017 , 08:31 PM
Maybe God framed Steven and coerced Brendan.
06-12-2017 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Lol, yes, these things are small enough to be easily moved undetected. :P. Not to mention, what kind of criminal kills a woman then thinks to risk getting seen to plant this stuff. Its totally ridiculous. Not to mention, moving remains and making it appear as if a body was burned somewhere it wasn't would be next to impossible.
The RAV4 was finally 'found' on the corner of a 40 acre lot furthest from the residences, and could easily be accessed without being observed.

Framing someone is the oldest trick in the book: even children know they can get away with a lot of stuff if they blame someone else. There's not much more risk for RH (if he is the guilty party) for him to take steps to make the cops believe Steven did it than it is to have his ex-girlfriend's disappearance remain unsolved. It's definitely better not to have cops wondering who did it and looking at you.

As for making it look like the body was burned in a fire pit - there was no competent retrieval of that evidence, so we'll never know what it 'looked like'. They blocked the County Coroner from coming onto the crime scene and documenting the fire pit properly. Remember?


Quote:
I offered an alternative, they planted the blood and matched patterns to avery's car. Those are the only two options because I think we can safely assume they didn't get lucky matching these patterns.
What is this new theory of yours? That blood drops in one car looked like blood drops in another car? And that is supposed to be surprising somehow?


Quote:
Most of what you said is nothing new, for example. The jury knew she contaminated the control sample, that doesn't explain how her dna got on his bullet.
Sherry Culhane ran a lab which she admitted had unaccountable contaminated samples used in the DNA test on the bullet we are discussing. There is no scientific value in a test that is done so poorly. If the jury could not understand that fact it shows there is a severe problem with our justice system.

The bullet DNA is junk science.

Quote:
She saw SA after 2:43, so this is irrelevant.
No, witnesses indicate that Teresa left ASY about 2:30 and went to her next appointment photographing a car for the Zipperers. Her phone pinged on certain towers in a certain order on her way toward ASY, and pinged the same towers in reverse order as she drove away.

http://crimefeed.com/2016/03/kathlee...irtight-alibi/

Quote:
No, because my point was not that they were related specifically, my point was that the people who are accusing her brother and ex boyfriend are scumbags.
If that is your opinion, why not just say so? It would be so much more plain what you meant without those sophomoric attempts at trying to make your emotional reaction seem like some kind of logical necessity.

For example, I think the people who put Steven Avery behind bars are scumbags. Cops that browbeat a ******ed teenager to repeat their made up scenario? Ken Kratz who was abusing drugs during the trial, and likely fatally robbed Steven of getting a fair trial after that notorious press conference? The sheriff who publicly said the department involved in a lawsuit against their suspect would be barred, but secretly allowed them free access to the property and amazingly made all the significant evidence that escaped the notice of previous searches?

Last edited by proudfootz; 06-12-2017 at 09:14 PM.
06-12-2017 , 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
IM getting tired of this being brought up, the void of logic is amazing.
There is no void in my logic.

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Just because SHE thinks it was a miracle doesn't mean we have to think its one to accept that it happened. She thinks it was a miracle because she is a christian and christians will often attribute good fortune to gods handy work.
I deliberately chose 'miracle' because that was here 'argument' of how she happened to walk directly to one car in particular out of four thousand.

Since you mention 'fortune' - let's calculate the odds that in that maze of cars spread over 40 acres she'd walk straight toward it...

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Your argument is essentially we must accept its a miracle to accept it happened. nonsense.
Nope. Not nonsense, as explained above.

My suspicion is that it is unlikely. I figure the odds are better than 1/4000 but less than 1/4.

Pam of God thought this event was so unaccountable and so unlikely she had to believe it was a miracle.
06-12-2017 , 10:08 PM
The oldest trick in the book? Can you give me an example of someone who killed someone, burned the body then planted the remains on someone elses property to make it look like they did it?
06-12-2017 , 10:09 PM
Quote:
Nope. Not nonsense, as explained above.

My suspicion is that it is unlikely. I figure the odds are better than 1/4000 but less than 1/4.

Pam of God thought this event was so unaccountable and so unlikely she had to believe it was a miracle.
unlikely things happen all the time, that doesn't make them miracles.
06-12-2017 , 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The oldest trick in the book? Can you give me an example of someone who killed someone, burned the body then planted the remains on someone elses property to make it look like they did it?
What's the matter with an example like that implied in my post?

Even a child knows it's better for someone else to be punished for something they did themselves.
06-12-2017 , 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
unlikely things happen all the time, that doesn't make them miracles.
That it was miraculous was the witness's own claim.

Yes, unlikely things happen all the time.

Just not as often as likely things happen.
06-12-2017 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
What's the matter with an example like that implied in my post?

Even a child knows it's better for someone else to be punished for something they did themselves.
Because one is consistent with human behavior and one isn't. A human who just killed someone is not likely to concuct such a plan to avoid suspicion. In almost every case when someone is murdered the person tries to get rid of the body, not plant the body. And planting it in this matter is ridiculous.

Its almost as if the person who planted the body, did so with the intention of the body not being identified.
06-12-2017 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
That it was miraculous was the witness's own claim.

Yes, unlikely things happen all the time.

Just not as often as likely things happen.
yes again, because she is a person who is religious and generally attributes unlikely or fortunate things to the hand of God. She probably calls it a miracle when she or someone she loves survives a car wreck as well.
06-12-2017 , 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer

Yes, unlikely things happen all the time.

Just not as often as likely things happen.
Looollll at the irony of this coming from you. Come on, you must be trolling now.
06-13-2017 , 12:18 AM
This thread is pure aids now
06-13-2017 , 12:18 AM
I keep checking in thinking there will be a good update, but keep because my epically disappointed
06-13-2017 , 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Because one is consistent with human behavior and one isn't. A human who just killed someone is not likely to concuct such a plan to avoid suspicion. In almost every case when someone is murdered the person tries to get rid of the body, not plant the body. And planting it in this matter is ridiculous.

Its almost as if the person who planted the body, did so with the intention of the body not being identified.
Blaming someone else for your own misdeeds is very consistent with human nature.

You claim it is unlikely someone would try and pin a murder on someone else in this post, then in the very next post claim that unlikely things happen 'all the time'.

You can't seem to help contradicting yourself.
06-13-2017 , 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown Making a Murderer
I keep checking in thinking there will be a good update, but keep because my epically disappointed
The defense lawyer just dropped a 200+ page document full of new evidence and reasons for Avery to get a new trial.

What were you expecting? Jesus flying in on a unicorn and burning a hole in the prison walls with laser beams shooting from His eyes?
06-13-2017 , 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown Making a Murderer
This thread is pure aids now
Uh, it's been full blown AIDS for quite some time. Carry on, all....
06-13-2017 , 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
My suspicion is that it is unlikely. I figure the odds are better than 1/4000 but less than 1/4.
What would you estimate are the odds that she was involved in the murder of Halbach or in a conspiracy to frame Avery?
06-13-2017 , 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkasigh Making a Murderer
What would you estimate are the odds that she was involved in the murder of Halbach or in a conspiracy to frame Avery?
By 'she' you mean Pam of God?

I'd estimate long odds against her being involved in the murder.

Much better odds for her being a witting helper in a frame up (her being a private investigator and a relative of Teresa's).

Could also be an unwitting helper in the frame up.

There's also the chance she just got lucky.
06-13-2017 , 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Blaming someone else for your own misdeeds is very consistent with human nature.

You claim it is unlikely someone would try and pin a murder on someone else in this post, then in the very next post claim that unlikely things happen 'all the time'.

You can't seem to help contradicting yourself.
Wait a second, we are not talking about the same thing. In pams situation it is the MOST likely case that she stumbled upon the car. In the fire pit situation it is not the most likely case that the body was burned elsewhere and the remains were taken to avery's family's property and dumped inside a fire pit used by avery the prior day with the killer trying to cover up whos body was burned. It just doesn't make any sense.
06-13-2017 , 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
HOwever, one must accept if the key was planted and the blood was planted we have at least 2 different officers working with RH to frame steven. (most likely more because who planted to blood in avery's vehicle?)
Why do officers need to be working with RH or other unknown killer?

Isn't it possible RH kills TH, plants car. That's all RH does and never discusses anything with anyone.

RH leads search. Car miraculously found like a needle in a haystack. Cops go hmmmm. Avery may have done it, but there's not enough evidence here. In fact there's no evidence at all other than a car on his lot. Let's plant some stuff so that a**hole Avery gets charged and needs money to hire a defense lawyer.
06-13-2017 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The jury knew she contaminated the control sample, that doesn't explain how her dna got on his bullet.
From contamination?
06-13-2017 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Wait a second, we are not talking about the same thing. In pams situation it is the MOST likely case that she stumbled upon the car.
It's a possibility. I don't discount it. She could have gotten lucky and walked straight to the RAV4 in a 40 acre maze of 4000 cars. But there are also other probabilities, among which is she might have been directed to walk in that direction or given a map.

Quote:
In the fire pit situation it is not the most likely case that the body was burned elsewhere and the remains were taken to avery's family's property and dumped inside a fire pit used by avery the prior day with the killer trying to cover up whos body was burned. It just doesn't make any sense.
It's not necessarily the most likely scenario until you learn that in the sworn testimony an experienced forensic scientist gave his opinion that the body was burned elsewhere and some of the cremains were dumped in the pit and that the tracking dogs did not hit on the fire pit, the burn barrels, Steven's home, or Steven's garage.

It's pretty evident that Teresa was not killed at ASY, but we know that's where Steven was. Therefore Steven was not present when she was killed.
06-13-2017 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
From contamination?
Priceless exchange.

One day he ll understand that you cannot use contaminated evidences for obvious reasons.
06-13-2017 , 03:02 PM
From: http://imgur.com/a/6mv8R

"Rachel recalled speaking with an individual who identified himself as Steve Avery on approximately Thursday 11/03/2005. Rachel stated that earlier on that same day Teresa Halbach's mother had contacted the Auto Trader Magazine office and was concerned about Halbach's whereabouts. Avery called the office approximately two hours after Halbach's mother, possible between 3:00pm and 4:30pm. Avery told Rachel that he had an appointment for a van and a truck to be photographed on 10/31/2005, however he had contacted Halbach on that day to see if she was still coming and she told him that she was heading in a different direction. Avery told Rachel that Halbach instructed him to contact the office to reschedule the appointment. Avery also told Rachael that he had been contacted by a male individual who identified himself as Teresa Halbach's roommate. This individual told Avery that they knew Halbach had been to his residence to take photographs and that they believed Avery had done something to Halbach. Avery stated that he did not appreciate being accused by this person. Avery had the number of this individual on caller ID and told Rachael he would call her back with this number. Avery stated that he did not appreciate being accused by this person. Rachael stated she looked on the computer and did not see a record of Steven Avery having an appointment and stated that she would look into it.

....

"Rachael stated this contact was the first time she believed she spoke with Steve Avery on the phone. Rachael is aware who Steven Avery was because Halbach had mentioned to Rachael on the telephone that Avery was "creepy." Halbach had told Rachael that on at least two occasions when Halbach arrived at the Avery property to shoot photographs of vehicles, Avery came out of this residence dressed only in a bath towel. Halbach joked with Rachael that Avery was not the type of person you wanted to see dressed in only a towel. Halbach had also mentioned to Rachael that Avery had showed her some kind of display having to do with females that was posted on his wall. This display was of pictures or names and phone numbers of females, possibly Avery's girlfriends. Avery said to Halbach in a confident manner that some day she would be up on the wall as well. Rachael did not believe Halbach was alarmed by this comment, however thought it was strange. Rachael did not get the indication that Halbach was uncomfortable going to the Avery property to take photos, and believed Halbach viewed Avery as more of a harmless old man who was "a little out there." "
06-13-2017 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
From: http://imgur.com/a/6mv8R

"Rachel recalled speaking with an individual who identified himself as Steve Avery on approximately Thursday 11/03/2005. Rachel stated that earlier on that same day Teresa Halbach's mother had contacted the Auto Trader Magazine office and was concerned about Halbach's whereabouts. Avery called the office approximately two hours after Halbach's mother, possible between 3:00pm and 4:30pm. Avery told Rachel that he had an appointment for a van and a truck to be photographed on 10/31/2005, however he had contacted Halbach on that day to see if she was still coming and she told him that she was heading in a different direction. Avery told Rachel that Halbach instructed him to contact the office to reschedule the appointment. Avery also told Rachael that he had been contacted by a male individual who identified himself as Teresa Halbach's roommate. This individual told Avery that they knew Halbach had been to his residence to take photographs and that they believed Avery had done something to Halbach. Avery stated that he did not appreciate being accused by this person. Avery had the number of this individual on caller ID and told Rachael he would call her back with this number. Avery stated that he did not appreciate being accused by this person. Rachael stated she looked on the computer and did not see a record of Steven Avery having an appointment and stated that she would look into it.

....

"Rachael stated this contact was the first time she believed she spoke with Steve Avery on the phone. Rachael is aware who Steven Avery was because Halbach had mentioned to Rachael on the telephone that Avery was "creepy." Halbach had told Rachael that on at least two occasions when Halbach arrived at the Avery property to shoot photographs of vehicles, Avery came out of this residence dressed only in a bath towel. Halbach joked with Rachael that Avery was not the type of person you wanted to see dressed in only a towel. Halbach had also mentioned to Rachael that Avery had showed her some kind of display having to do with females that was posted on his wall. This display was of pictures or names and phone numbers of females, possibly Avery's girlfriends. Avery said to Halbach in a confident manner that some day she would be up on the wall as well. Rachael did not believe Halbach was alarmed by this comment, however thought it was strange. Rachael did not get the indication that Halbach was uncomfortable going to the Avery property to take photos, and believed Halbach viewed Avery as more of a harmless old man who was "a little out there." "
While this is an interesting story, it would be good to have a look at phone records to see if Auto Trader ever received such a call at this time, and whether Steven ever called Auto Trader at this time.

Anybody could call claiming to be Steven Avery, or Ken Kratz, or Barack Obama.

Meanwhile, we do have evidence which seems to indicate Teresa arrived at ASY, and subsequently left ASY based on the sequence of cell phone towers pinged to her phone as she moved.
06-13-2017 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
Priceless exchange.

One day he ll understand that you cannot use contaminated evidences for obvious reasons.
What??? You can't use contaminated tests?

This will cause havoc since the Wisconsin forensic labs seem to be rife with procedural, scientific, and legal violations.

      
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