Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

12-06-2016 , 06:34 AM
What are the other theories on how the blood was planted? RH being a nurse with access to blood samples?
12-06-2016 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdub72 Making a Murderer
What are the other theories on how the blood was planted? RH being a nurse with access to blood samples?
From reddit:

"the Rav-4 should have remained untouched, photographed and processed exactly where it was found. However, the vehicle was never even opened until the day after it reached the crime lab. Every picture you see of the inside of the Rav-4 (including all the bloodstains) was taken AT THE CRIME LAB. Additionally, the crime lab already had possession of Steven Avery’s Grand Prix which had a decent amount of visible blood from the cut on his finger that occurred around the same time frame or just shortly after TH’s disappearance. Also, the 6th unconstitutional search warrant (magical key discovery) was granted so that Lenk and Colborn could collect swabs of blood drops (from the same cut) that were located in Avery's house (the day after the Crime Lab had already processed the house [why wouldn't the crime lab collect it themselves?]) So now we have proof that Sherry "whatsprotocol?" Culhane had at least 2 sources of recent SA blood and in fact was having those sources tested for DNA at precisely the same time as the Rav-4. Sherry Culhane also admits that she simply left all the swabs in “coin envelopes” on her desk overnight and then left all blood evidence in her cabinet for months. It was reported that at least 12 other techs had keys to this cabinet and possibly up to 50 people over the course of 5 months. (Source: Trial Transcripts - SC takes the stand pgs 69-90) This is a gross deviation from logic, let alone Crime Lab protocol."
12-06-2016 , 05:23 PM
The RAV4 was apparently locked when it was officially found at ASY on Saturday.

When lab technicians came in on Sunday to process the car, it had been unlocked in the meantime.

Who unlocked the car, and thus had access to the interior where Steven's blood was later found?

It would appear that law enforcement had a key, or had one made, before the 'incriminating key' mysteriously appeared in Steven's bedroom.
12-06-2016 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
The RAV4 was apparently locked when it was officially found at ASY on Saturday.

When lab technicians came in on Sunday to process the car, it had been unlocked in the meantime.

Who unlocked the car, and thus had access to the interior where Steven's blood was later found?

It would appear that law enforcement had a key, or had one made, before the 'incriminating key' mysteriously appeared in Steven's bedroom.
Liar.
12-06-2016 , 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Liar.
Yes, it would appear that some of the police were liars.
12-06-2016 , 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Yes, it would appear that some of the police were liars.
theres also the reports on the time it took for the Rav4 to get to the crime lab remember the opps stops they had to make to secure the RAV4, and burn barrels while we are at it.
12-06-2016 , 11:33 PM
The blood came from S.A. compounded vehicle, imo plus swabs from his trailer.

Why K.Z. is a boss... http://www.wxow.com/story/33953454/2...tate-crime-lab

Last edited by smacc25; 12-06-2016 at 11:38 PM.
12-07-2016 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
theres also the reports on the time it took for the Rav4 to get to the crime lab remember the opps stops they had to make to secure the RAV4, and burn barrels while we are at it.
It was very odd the shell game played with the barrels - how many and where they were located.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._burn_barrels/
12-09-2016 , 07:56 PM
According to this post, it would appear that Sheriff Pagel was prescient about the surprise evidence that would come out of the coerced 'confessions' elicited from Brendan Dassey:

================

Pagel's Prediction

Instructions from Sheriff Pagel concerning Avery were sent out to staff on January 31, 2006.

"In reviewing phone conversations, it appears that Steven Avery is becoming more anxious and desperate with not having been release on bail. Additional charges may be filed in the next several weeks which could add to his stress level."

How would Pagel have known, at this point in January 2006, that additional charges may be filed? January 31, 2006 was long before LE began focusing on Brendan Dassey.


https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMan...te_prediction/

================

Three weeks after Pagel's prediction, cops begin interviewing Brendan and feeding him 'facts' to include in statements that incriminate his uncle Steven and himself.
12-09-2016 , 10:29 PM
^^A that time most ppl in Mantiowoc believed S.A. was being set up, I posted this info way back........... There was a site that posters changed to yup defo guilty after the KK-Horror story Press conference...

Ducit post from TTM......

Every time a license plate number is queried by a LE officer/agency for registration information, whether it be from an in-car terminal or via a call/radio to dispatch where the dispatcher uses their terminal to look it up in the system, a record of the terminal operator/terminal id/agency/time/date is automatically created regardless of whether or not any incident/crime/etc are attached to it.
For example (making this up): An officer follows a vehicle who fails to use a turn signal, he could pull him over based on the failure to signal, but is it really gonna be "worth it"? He runs the license plate using his in-car terminal/laptop to see if the person has warrants, is the car stolen, registration expired, etc... Registration comes back clean, no warrants on the owner, not worth it, so he turns at the next intersection and continues on with his patrol...
Even though no ticket, warning, or other "incident" is ever generated, a record of the "query" would be automatically generated that details when that license plate was queried, who queried it, where they queried it from, and the exact time that the query was made.
You probably already know where I am going with this, so you can skip to the bottom for the good part...
Back in 1967, the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) began linking local, state, and federal records such as these. Fast forward a couple decades, and the NCIC is a critical tool in locating missing/wanted persons, stolen cars/boats, etc...
FBI press release from 2007 celebrating 40 years of NCIC: https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/ne...-years-of-ncic
From the above link, BUT IN NO WAY RELATED TO THIS CASE, here is an actual example of the NCIC helping solve a missing person/murder case:
"4.) NCIC staff provided valuable lead information in an investigation of a missing female. The staff conducted a search on the missing person’s name and license plate for the five days before law enforcement officials had entered a record containing her personal data into the NCIC. The results included a query on the license plate from a neighboring police department while the vehicle was parked at a local motel. Law enforcement personnel checked the motel and found that the vehicle was still there. The motel’s desk clerk provided information that led the officers to a motel room where they found two men associated with the vehicle. They also found in the room a female who had been reported missing in a separate incident. The investigator’s search of the vehicle’s trunk revealed blood that was identified to be that of the owner who was then presumed to be a homicide victim. The police held the two men as murder suspects. The two subjects eventually entered into a plea agreement. Each pled guilty to one count of first-degree murder and one count of kidnapping. They were sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. Based on information provided by the murderers as a condition of the plea agreement, law enforcement officials subsequently recovered the body of the missing female."
November 3rd, 2005 (Thursday)
2:51pm: An incident number is generated by CASO, and the first entry, at 2:52pm, is made by a CASO dispatcher indicating that TH's mother is reporting her as missing.
Link to CASO Dispatch Log: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...g-redacted.pdf
6:34pm: An incident number is generated by MTSO.
Link to MTSO report (see "Reported Date"): http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...estigation.pdf
6:37pm: First entry in the MTSO dispatch log, based on what info we have, is made that includes the TH missing person report/DOB/vehicle info/plate number/last known whereabouts.
Link to MTSO Dispatch Log: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...patch-Logs.pdf
Notice how the top seems to be missing/there are no column names/no header or footer... The report that the CAD system who generate would have all of that, just like CASO's does up above...
?:??: AC claims that Wiegert (CASO) calls him on the 3rd and requested that he visit/make contact at two locations in Manitowoc County.
AC claims that Wiegert gave him TH's license plate number on this call.
AC claims that he did make contact at both locations he was asked to check (SA's and GZ's residences).
Why is Wiegert calling AC personally?
Isn't it odd that SA couldn't remember the name of the officer that he talked to on November 3rd? AC had just been deposed weeks earlier in SA's $36M lawsuit and is a big reason SA spent an extra 8 years in prison...
AC does not file a report until late June of 2006. Per the MTSO report, the last entry in the report is made by AC on 6/29/2006. So he is the first officer to contact SA in this whole case, and he doesn't officially document it until June of 2006?
?:??: AC claims that he called dispatch, via his personal cell phone, to have them verify that he had the license plate number written down correctly in case he were to locate the vehicle at these locations.
He can't remember where he was or what time it was when he made this call.
On the call, AC says he has no way of running the license plate.
A call like this would typically be made via radio, or, the license plate would be run from the officer's in-car terminal.
The dispatcher runs the plate and it returns to TH.
November 4th, 2005 (Friday)
8:57am: An "NCIC Off-Line Search Request" is made by CASO on TH's licence plate "SWH582"
Page 2 from CASO Dispatch Log: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...ted.pdf#page=2
If AC made the recorded call to dispatch before the 4th when the NCIC request was made by CASO, then the report that CASO would have received would show exactly when AC had Dispatch look up "SWH582". The only day AC could have legitimately made that call would be on the 3rd between about 6pm-10pm, and any time before or after that would blow his story to pieces.
Check this out, from all the way back in 1999 from the "Serial" case in Maryland. The investigators made an NCIC Off-Line Search Request on the suspect's license/vehicle and this is what they received. This is the kind of listing that CASO would have received (NOT RELATED TO SA/TH CASE): http://undisclosed-podcast.com/docs/...est.pdf#page=3
TLDR:
Where the f' are the NCIC Off-Line Search results that CASO requested on November 4th that would show the times/dates/locations where TH's license plate was looked up by a LE agency prior to November 4th?
Why didn't KK just pull out those results and show that the dispatcher ran "SWH582" for AC on the afternoon of the 3rd? This was on "Off-Line" search, so an actual listing would have been sent to CASO in some tabular format.
Were the results from NCIC even turned over to the defense?
TL-TLDR:
http://i.imgur.com/0RnrdCL.png
12-10-2016 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer

================

Pagel's Prediction

Instructions from Sheriff Pagel concerning Avery were sent out to staff on January 31, 2006.

"In reviewing phone conversations, it appears that Steven Avery is becoming more anxious and desperate with not having been release on bail. Additional charges may be filed in the next several weeks which could add to his stress level."

How would Pagel have known, at this point in January 2006, that additional charges may be filed? January 31, 2006 was long before LE began focusing on Brendan Dassey.
Well, he was in regular contact with the special prosecutor so it could be unrelated to BD. BD helped certainly, but they could easily have filed more changes without him. Kidnapping, robbery, grand theft (car), etc. It would seem rather normal to add as many charges as you can to apply the most pressure possible.

I am surprised they didn't add car theft. He allegedly stole her car and drove it. His DNA is on the key. His blood is allegedly in the car. Seems like an easy case to prove to a jury.

Add that with his charge of felon in possession of a gun, he still was looking at some significant prison time.

OJ Simpson is in jail longer than murderers and rapists for trying to get his own stuff back.
12-10-2016 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
Well, he was in regular contact with the special prosecutor so it could be unrelated to BD. BD helped certainly, but they could easily have filed more changes without him. Kidnapping, robbery, grand theft (car), etc. It would seem rather normal to add as many charges as you can to apply the most pressure possible.

I am surprised they didn't add car theft. He allegedly stole her car and drove it. His DNA is on the key. His blood is allegedly in the car. Seems like an easy case to prove to a jury.

Add that with his charge of felon in possession of a gun, he still was looking at some significant prison time.

OJ Simpson is in jail longer than murderers and rapists for trying to get his own stuff back.
It's curious the mutilation of a corpse charge didn't stick - you'd think that would have been the easiest to prove.
12-10-2016 , 06:33 AM
smacc25 -

There's definitely a lot of strange things about how this case was run and how it was documented.

Standing alone it doesn't prove anything, but it does lessen the confidence I can put in the results and leaves a lot of room for shenanigans.
12-10-2016 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
Well, he was in regular contact with the special prosecutor so it could be unrelated to BD. BD helped certainly, but they could easily have filed more changes without him. Kidnapping, robbery, grand theft (car), etc. It would seem rather normal to add as many charges as you can to apply the most pressure possible.

I am surprised they didn't add car theft. He allegedly stole her car and drove it. His DNA is on the key. His blood is allegedly in the car. Seems like an easy case to prove to a jury.

Add that with his charge of felon in possession of a gun, he still was looking at some significant prison time.

OJ Simpson is in jail longer than murderers and rapists for trying to get his own stuff back.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMan...art_two_karma/

Great post on Reddit laying out in perfect detail the extremely clear railroading of SA and what appears to be total clairvoyance (knowledge) of nearly every piece of evidence LE would find, WELL before the vehicle was even opened.

The affidavits by Weigert and sworn testimony from Remiker are absolutely shocking and revealing.

This information, 90% of which was left OUT OF THE DOCUMENTARY, should easily be enough to get SA a new trial AND is probable cause for a Federal investigation IMO.

I would not be surprised if the author of these posts is 5ive.
12-10-2016 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
It's curious the mutilation of a corpse charge didn't stick - you'd think that would have been the easiest to prove.
Perhaps the jury could have thought there was a possibility that she was alive when burned.

Or perhaps they don't think the prosecution presented sufficient evidence that the bones are indeed TH. Could be that there were no pictures and they believed the defense did a good job of presenting reasonable doubt to the theory that a bonfire could have reduced bone given the conditions.

They just believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that SA murdered her. They don't have to give their reasons. Or come up with their own theories. They didn't believe KK. They just believe SA is guilty.
12-10-2016 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
Perhaps the jury could have thought there was a possibility that she was alive when burned.

Or perhaps they don't think the prosecution presented sufficient evidence that the bones are indeed TH. Could be that there were no pictures and they believed the defense did a good job of presenting reasonable doubt to the theory that a bonfire could have reduced bone given the conditions.

They just believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that SA murdered her. They don't have to give their reasons. Or come up with their own theories. They didn't believe KK. They just believe SA is guilty.
Yes, just weird.

If the bones aren't TH, then there's no real evidence she's even dead, or what caused her death, or if there was a murder - let alone who might be responsible for this hypothetical murder.
12-10-2016 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Yes, just weird.

If the bones aren't TH, then there's no real evidence she's even dead, or what caused her death, or if there was a murder - let alone who might be responsible for this hypothetical murder.
You don't need a means, motive, body or weapon to be found guilty. Any of those certainly help, but you don't want people getting away with murder because they are good at disposing of bodies and weapons.
12-11-2016 , 08:29 AM
It's good that Brendan is getting out soon prolly. Crazy how he was convicted with zero DNA evidence.

Steven's case is a bit tougher, but I totally believe he's innocent, from his demeanor. Hopefully future technology will exonerate him, just like last time.
12-11-2016 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
You don't need a means, motive, body or weapon to be found guilty. Any of those certainly help, but you don't want people getting away with murder because they are good at disposing of bodies and weapons.
Just following up on your idea that the bones didn't belong to TH.

Before you convict someone of murder, you'd hope that there was a crime to convict someone of.
12-11-2016 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
You don't need a means, motive, body or weapon to be found guilty. Any of those certainly help, but you don't want people getting away with murder because they are good at disposing of bodies and weapons.
This individual was convinced he couldn't be convicted of murder without a body. It didn't work out too well for him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_George_Haigh
12-11-2016 , 04:50 PM
Another interesting case...

"Murder Suspect Released After Victim' Found Alive and Well

Pavel Smirnoff, 25, released after month in jail; prosecution: indictment had been supported by a wealth of evidence, including the suspect's confession."

read more: http://www.haaretz.com/murder-suspec...-well-1.146486

http://www.haaretz.com/murder-suspec...-well-1.146486
12-12-2016 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
You don't need a means, motive, body or weapon to be found guilty. Any of those certainly help, but you don't want people getting away with murder because they are good at disposing of bodies and weapons.
Yeah I guess it's better to have 10 people wrongfully imprisoned just in case they did it (or might do it in the future) plus their gene pool should be ended anyway, than to let one murderer, or serial rapist for that matter, get away.
12-12-2016 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red Making a Murderer
This individual was convinced he couldn't be convicted of murder without a body. It didn't work out too well for him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_George_Haigh
These individuals thought they could pin a murder on two people without a body, by planting evidence, and launching a PR campaign on TV.

Doesn't seem like it's working out too well for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_a_Murderer
12-12-2016 , 08:59 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/p...test/95333182/

WI Ethic's board, A member resigns.... Not surprising when PL is chairwoman.
12-13-2016 , 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raheem Making a Murderer
It's good that Brendan is getting out soon prolly. Crazy how he was convicted with zero DNA evidence.

Steven's case is a bit tougher, but I totally believe he's innocent, from his demeanor.Hopefully future technology will exonerate him, just like last time.
Haven't checked in on this thread in a while, I see it's a full-blown conspirapalooza these days. Guess I'm not the only person who got bored arguing that the moon landing wasn't faked.

Anyway just checking in to say lolllllllll to "I believe he's innocent, from his demeanor". Please never serve on a jury.

      
m