Who knows why criminals do the things they do, the way they do them?

You are inviting speculation here. We all know your next move - attack people who respond to your request for speculation by ridiculing them for 'speculating'.

No really use your common sense here and you're the one speculating based on no evidence, why not simply frame him for something much easier? You're currently here in terms of evidence and speculation.



The forest Proudz, the forest. Not the trees...

You haven't told us why the Sheriff publicly announced Manitowoc cops wouldn't be part of the investigation into Steven if the lawsuit was no big deal (in your opinion).

If Manitowoc cops investigating Steven in the Halbach case looks shady to the Sheriff, why do you disagree with that assessment?

Planet Earth, corpus, come down to planet Earth!

On planet Earth theorem doesn't trump evidence of which none exists for a frame up and on planet Earth corrupt cops frame two time felons in far far easier lower risk ways. That's simple common sense and on planet Earth no cops are on trial for framing either and indeed the Federal magistrate who has provisionally overturned the verdict of Dassey rules out malicious intent on the part of LE, even when ruling the confession involuntary.
Your batting average is zero when it comes to providing evidence for a frame up. Just suspicions which don't hold up to objective scrutiny. Why anyone would think that LE would engage in an almost impossible frame job in terms of practicality, when they simply could have framed him in a bunch of easier ways is quite frankly beyond me. It simply doesn't make sense and I honestly genuinely don't have the words to describe how taken aback I am that anyone could entertain it over a much lower risk strategy. Do you think LE murdered Teresa?
You think that another group of cops other than the ones which were banned engaged in a frame up to support the banned ones and that banned cops isn't an indication that the cops don't want anything to screw up the case? Seriously? The forest proudz ...Jaysus. Please just use your common sense here I'm not even trying to be a smart arse but think on this one critically here. C'mon

Corpus Vile? Why did L.E. Dig up the remains of T.H. with a bobcat?

So, no answer why anyone should believe you about the conflict of interest issue regarding the lawsuit that was on everyone's minds in 2005 rather than the people involved.

That's a whole lot of verbiage to dodge a simple question.

More fail from you - but why would anyone expect any different?

Corpus Vile? From reading your posts it seems you have studied a few murder cases, yes. So in your experience why was D.A's from 2 counties on ASY on the 5th Nov 2005 and just about every other L.E. official who were trampling on the pit area (bones), but sheriff Peterson was no where to be seen? Can you explain this & maybe why no photos were taken of this area? Thanks.

If cops can lie, can manufacture evidence, and prosecutors foist narratives on juries which they doubt are true, why shouldn't LE be allowed to botch recovery of forensic materials?

Having to document chain of possession of evidence might hamper their ability to secure convictions.

Oh & I sent you the link for why MtDna should never ever be used in court, did you read it? And in your experience has any murder investigation that you have studied ever used MtDna in identifying a victim?
So why would the most expensive investigation in Manitowoc history use such a method to identify T.H. when MOST courts would NEVER entertain such a method? Why didn't they just use a normal DNA match? Since they had a piece of flesh I find this extraordinary, can you explain this to me please.

Also can you explain to me why L.E. never tested the drain systems in SA trailer, since all the crime shows I watch say these are the hardest to clean.

Thanks...

Interesting article giving some good information on Griesbach, the fellow who's written three books now capitalizing on Steven Avery.

Among points of interest is this bit:

"Discovery for the lawsuit was proving to be a problem for the county and the sheriff's department. The county insurer was denying coverage for the behaviors of former Sheriff Koucerek and others. And, the discovery process uncovered subsequent misdeeds such as the above mentioned Coburn's failure to write a timely report. Coburn, Lenk, and Peterson now faced the possibility of inclusion in the lawsuit."

http://www.convolutedbrian.com/gries...ds-part-1.html

That's a pretty good reason for several people, all friends and colleagues, to pray for a miracle to shut down the lawsuit ASAP.

A 16-year old exhibiting odd behavior and acting weird will be repeated. Because if that was the burden of proof for the police to interrogate a kid, we should start taking every kid out of their classes.

A human teenager by definition is "odd" and "weird". They are discovering their bodies, brains and sexuality. While at the same time they are finally realizing that the "real world" is closer with college or jobs. The pressure is intense.

An insurance company is not going to challenge L.E. after all it's these guys that investigate things on a daily basis ffs it's there only job, insurance investigation must be like I dunno, junior league in comparison and when you are up against the pros well it's time to settle for what you can get I suppose...... And since MCPD are top notch family guys what would they ever uncover lol A video not returned, some nude photos maybe?.

Too soon....

C.V Must be off reading up on the items released for testing..........
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/ne...case/94353426/

These critical items of evidence will undergo testing as part of this week’s court order:

Blood flakes recovered from the floor near the center console of Halbach’s RAV4.

Bloodstain cutting from the driver’s seat.

Bloodstain cutting from passenger’s seat.

Swab of the RAV 4 ignition area where blood was found.

Swab of bloodstain taken from the rear passenger’s door.

Swab of bloodstain taken from a CD case found in vehicle.

Additionally, three other items of evidence used to secure Avery’s arrest and eventual conviction are subject to the new testing order.

Those items are:

A vial of blood said to be a sample of Avery’s blood from 1996. This was the vial of blood that Avery’s murder trial defense lawyers Dean Strang and Jerry Buting came across during their pretrial case research inside the clerk’s office at the Manitowoc County Courthouse.

A spare key for Halbach’s vehicle found in Avery’s bedroom by Manitowoc County Sheriff’s deputies James Lenk and Andrew Colborn.

The swab from the hood latch of Halbach’s RAV4 that later generated a DNA profile for Avery. Forensic testing on the hood latch was not performed by the Wisconsin State Crime Lab in Madison, even though the lab initially impounded the vehicle and conducted a battery of standard forensic tests. Rather, the swab of the hood latch that yielded the DNA profile of the murder defendant did not occur until six months later. In April 2006, Calumet County sheriff’s officials decided to carry out their own forensic testing of the hood area.

Zellner has said she wants to determine if the hood latch DNA swab was fabricated from other known DNA samples that were in the possession of Calumet and Manitowoc County law enforcement.

I'm pissed at there being No Pelvic bone or skull fragments.

-KZ tells the state in her motion that presumptive tests do not have the specificity to allow definitive identification of body fluid. Confirmatory tests are required to provide the scientific foundation for making a definitive statement as to the presence of the tested body fluid.

In the motion KZ says that there were some items that had gone through presumptive testing. She also says there were items that were not tested at all, no presumptive or confirmatory test done.

KZ says that no presumptive blood testing was performed on the bullet or fragments that were found in the garage. NO presumptive testing and NO confirmatory testing done on the bullet. SC knew it was TH's DNA on the bullet but would not say where the DNA came from. She had no idea if it was blood or spit or cells from a pap smear.

KZ says that based on BD's coerced confession, a swab was taken from the hood latch of the victim's car. She lays out how BD did not mention anything about SA touching the hood latch until asked the question by factbender. Again, no presumptive or confirmatory tests were performed on the swabs from the hood latch. (Zellner said when filing the motion she expects the testing will reveal that there is saliva on the hood latch, possibly with some microscopic fibers from a cotton swab)

KZ wants these follow up tests done: Body fluid source testing, radio carbon testing, DNA Methylation. KZ wants to test items from the RAV4 (prop bar, battery cable, interior hood release, the blinker light, the lug wrench, the blood swabs / stains). These items were never tested.

Body fluid source testing (confirmatory test): KZ will be able to use the wash from SC bullet fragment test and determine what type of cells are present. The state will be hoping the test comes back as DNA mixed with hemoglobin = blood. KZ is expecting epithelial cells or perhaps cells from a pap smear on the bullet. (This one excites me, I was positive there would be no way to determine if the bullet was planted due to SC washing the bullet.)

KZ will also perform body source testing on the hood latch swab. She mentions again that no presumptive testing was done on the hood latch, even though such tests should have helped the states case. KZ is looking to find buccal cells (nucleated / lack of keratin) as opposed to skin cells (anucleated / keratinized).

She also wants to test the RAV-4 key - body source testing again. Is it sweat, blood or saliva on the key? Would it add up to the states theory if saliva is on the key and hood latch?
She wants to test the latent ridge impressions (fingerprints) from the RAV for DNA. This is a new test. She states that not all latent prints have DNA, but as the test was not available in 2007, the answer to whose fingerprints they were has not been solved.

She wants to use Radiocarbon 14c testing to determine the age of the blood in the RAV-4. They will carbon date a single cell, or even DNA extracted from a single cell, allowing the lab worker to determine when the blood sample was taken. If the blood is fresh (SA guilty) the carbon level will have a 14c/c that matched the corresponding carbon levels from 2005. If the blood was planted from an older sample (1996 vial) the 14c/c profile of the blood sample will show an age much older than 2005.

KZ mentions in the motion (almost as an after thought) that the Carbon 14c test can also detect petroleum like products such as EDTA.
14c testing has been extensively tested and validated. C levels have steadily dropped in recent decades allowing for amazingly accurate year by year specificity when testing an unknown sample.

She even has a plan, should the samples be too contaminated for radio carbon testing. DNA methylation is her plan B. It is another age test for the blood that depends determining if the cells from the vial and the cells form the RAV have gone through the same number of 'divisions' meaning the blood is the same age, and not over 10 years older.
She wants the buccal swabs taken from SA, she will test them to see if there was any transfer of trace material when the evidence was planted.

KZ, in the motion lists everything she needs, she lists how many nano-grams of DNA should be remaining. I believe it would be very hard to switch out the swabs and somehow ensure the exact same amount of trace material / DNA is on the new swab. I am confident if the state has tried anything funny in the last 10 years, these tests will show us what it was. She lets the state know that everything will be video recorded, including when the evidence arrives at said lab.

I don't think it matters how much the state tries to **** around with the evidence. If there was any tampering back in 2005. The test will catch it, if there was any tampering since she filed the motion, the tests will catch it.
//
Items included in motion that were not mentioned above:
Advanced DNA testing all around. Pelvis bone source testing, license plate, purple thong underwear, JL and AC fingerprints, scrapings of all blood stains from the car / trailer, advanced ballistic testing for bullet fragments, and finally, she wants access to the 1996 vial.
I think that is it. Hopefully they agreed to testing more than the blood swabs.

Thanks too Hypertoxicity from TTM-Reddit.

I don't know "you guys" you are referencing. I don't see that much arguing over his or BDs innocence. Much more that they are not guilty because they were not afforded the presumption of innocence prior to trial and be judged be an impartial jury of peers. When 129 out of 130 think a defendant is guilty before trial, I think that is the same % chances of being found guilty. And many of the potential jury pool thought he should be dead before the trial for committing the crime...without a trial. Way to go KK press conference.

No. There was personal liability on the table. I've laid that out many times in this thread.

Corpus vile is too busy flying over the trees to know much about this specific case or the law in general.

A lot of people don't seem to believe in this 'presumption of innocence' idea. Apparently they think Western Civilization took a wrong turn some time during the Roman era.

An example of this can be seen in the Nov 6 police interview with Brendan Dassey when they start manipulating him into lying. It's been suggested this is what police should be doing - treating witnesses like criminals.

I dont want to research how many people in usa would be fine allowing cops to waterboard presumed rapist or child molestor.

This.

Also as CV keeps repeating the false and misapplied datum: "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." This means everyone is a suspect to a crime until there is actual evidence of their absence. Rather than searching for evidence of them having perpetrated the crime, this datum allows police to continue to tunnel vision wrong or suggested targets because "well, there's no proof he DIDN'T do it."

If torture worked to find all those witches, there's no reason why it shouldn't be used to discover all kinds of interesting truths about our world.

Presumed terrorists as well (think muslim registry).

“Would I approve waterboarding? You bet your ass I would. In a heartbeat. I would approve more than that. It works.” - President of the United States.

Off topic I know.

For terrorist no need to do any research.
In france we have a magic word to justify anything aswell it s called "vigipirate" it s some kind of anti terrorist program that is 20 years old + and i ve been told at my work that open some nice exceptional funding for anything related to security.

You'd do well to be speaking up for her, then, rather than attacking other people.

Like people should be speaking up for Penny Beerntsen when Gregory Allen, the man who assaulted and nearly killed her, was allowed to roam free victimizing other women because cops had a grudge against Steven Avery and framed him for the crime.

I thought on this one and concluded that due to a successful, 2nd framing, MC was able to reduce their financial liability from $36 MIL to $500,000. $36 MIL was an amount the insurance company would not cover AND would presumably require their own independent investigations into ethics and procedure violations that resulted in both the conviction and continued imprisonment of SA. I wonder what they would have found and who would have been held PERSONALLY liable due to the insurance company policies being void due to conscious and purposeful ethics violations? Guess we'll never know.