Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

11-17-2016 , 01:07 PM
Ban the troll already
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Stuff
I clearly showed you where they spoonfed him the shooting and that SA opened the hood.
No you didn't the cops do not mention the .22 or the sweat under the hood or the leg irons. Confessions are coaxed usually not given in detail with absolute consistency right off the bat. The cops do not specifically mention these things at all yet Dassey mentions them anyway and this was after he'd already mentioned them in a previous confession. So again no, you didn't show me this at all whatsoever, never mind clearly.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5
Ban the troll already
Provide evidence via ONE example as to how I'm trolling there mouth almighty.
Otherwise allow me to continue reading through this thread to find this proven coercion which nobody seems willing to link, thanks.

Last edited by corpus vile; 11-17-2016 at 01:45 PM.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 01:44 PM
You've been shown evidence and you continue to deny. You're doing zero leg work and adding no value to the discussion.

Again, can we ban the troll from this thread?
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile
No you didn't the cops do not mention the .22 or the sweat under the hood or the leg irons. Confessions are coaxed usually not given in detail with absolute consistency right off the bat. The cops do not specifically mention these things at all yet Dassey mentions them anyway and this was after he'd already mentioned them in a previous confession. So again no, you didn't show me this at all whatsoever, never mind clearly.
the cops don't need to mention the .22 wtf
"All right, I'm just gonna come out and ask you. Who shot her in the head?"

no, they didn't mention the sweat under the hood, but they spoonfed him to place SA raising the hood and then went on testing the latch, 4 or so months after the car was seized.

leg irons word was fed, but handcuffs was Brendans own, I'll give you that.
(both hands cuffed to posts and legs, not a mathematician, mut atleast 3 pairs imo? SA had 1pair)
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5
You've been shown evidence and you continue to deny. You're doing zero leg work and adding no value to the discussion.

Again, can we ban the troll from this thread?
No I haven't been I've been shown people's personal criteria for evidence masquerading as actual evidence.
Quote:
coercion
kəʊˈəːʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
"it wasn't slavery because no coercion was used"
synonyms: force, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, enforcement, harassment, intimidation, threats, insistence, demand, arm-twisting, pressure, pressurization, influence
"it wasn't slavery because no coercion was used"
Force- provide evidence of this, that they mistreated Dassey
Compulsion- provide evidence that Dassey was compelled against his will to confess.
Contraint- provide evidence of this
duress- provide evidence of this was his sandwich too stale, did they not speak loudly enough when offering him a lawyer?
Oppression-provide evidence of this

intimidation, provide evidence of this where do they act all hardass against poor Bren?
threats, provide evidence of this, interrogation transcript page number with the threat will be grand thanks.
insistence, provide evidence of this
demand, provide evidence of this
arm-twisting, provide evidence of this Which cop twisted poor Brendan's arm or was it both? page number?
pressure, provide evidence of this
pressurization, provide evidence of this
influence provide evidence of this, specifically where the cops say they'll use their influence to make sure Brendan doesn't do a day in prison. page number of the transcripts will again be grand, thanks.

So again gimme one example of my trolling there blowhard because your last excuse for an example is laughably dismissed. The truth is easy to defend so defend it. otherwise not interested in how you feel about me personally, internet poster who I don't know nor have interest in knowing.

oh I'm currently wading through this thread wrt "legwork" and have done the legwork as I've read transcripts of his interrogation and I get that not adding to your personal echo chamber is to you not adding to the discussion and you have my sympathies.
Speaking of which I've no desire to disrupt anyone's feelgood echo chamber or rock anyone's innocence narrative boat so if any of the mods feel I deserve banning simply for disagreeing then by all means take whatever action you deem appropriate, you'll get no argument or appeal from me.

I reckon I'm done with this thread anyway if your whinging is anything to go by blacksize, but will continue to look for this fabled proof of actual defined coercion as I'm sure it is and is so glaringly obvious that no examples are needed. If it's credible I'll comment on it, if not then I probably won't bother due to possily more wailings about bannings which may ensue.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 02:15 PM
Twitter sez Dassey's not being released court rejected his dfence's request for bond, I'll seek verification
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Stuff
the cops don't need to mention the .22 wtf
"All right, I'm just gonna come out and ask you. Who shot her in the head?"

no, they didn't mention the sweat under the hood, but they spoonfed him to place SA raising the hood and then went on testing the latch, 4 or so months after the car was seized.

leg irons word was fed, but handcuffs was Brendans own, I'll give you that.
(both hands cuffed to posts and legs, not a mathematician, mut atleast 3 pairs imo? SA had 1pair)
I already acknowledge that there were problems with the interview but would argue that all investigations are flawed to a degree as cops are fallible human beings like the rest of us. It certainly didn't make the actual confession unsound though.
Dassey knew that Teresa had been shot in the left side of the head twice though. Cops never mentioned this or the type of weapon.
Yeah and sweat was found under the hood which corroborates Dassey's statement that Avery was sweaty. Irrelevant when they found it unless you're saying that cops can only use evidence they uncover immediately yet must disregard any evidence they find later on the grounds that...they find it later. I'm not accepting that as a valid argument sorry.
His mentioning of the cuffs is yet another instance of corroboration and again I'm seriously not accepting coercion so far and have already stated my intentions re this thread after the whingefast from blackeyes or whatever his/her name is so if you could just stop responding to me then that would be just awesome, thanks...

ETA:

http://www.cbs58.com/story/33736497/...asseys-release

Last edited by corpus vile; 11-17-2016 at 02:38 PM.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 02:47 PM
Corpus Vile is not a troll. Has a strong opinion, yes. And that is okay, I am just not sure it is entirely informed.

Corpus, let me dig up some posts which may be helpful.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 02:59 PM
Cheers Oski much obliged mate nd I'm looking through the thread anyway, thanks. With respect I see no evidence of coercion- actual coercion- in the interrogation transcripts and tbh to me, (and I'm merely a layperson so could easily be wrong) it seems that Duffin is working backwards from a belief in Dassey, being railroaded and basically contorting his reasoning to accommodate this. Dassey's sentence does not sit right with me but that doesn't mean I find him innocent and I find it telling that his original lawyer tried for a deal as again I see no evidence of coercion from those transcripts but sufficient evidence of guilt via its content.

So far and after reading Duffin's report I'm cautiously optimistic that his ruling will be overturned but if it's not and Dassey walks, I'll accept that such is the way of things sometimes. Thanks again for the shout and offer mate, again obliged.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 03:10 PM
If you mean that he isn't spouting **** he doesn't believe just for the reaction then sure. But he is closed minded shouting his ill informed opinion post after post. I still think he needs a hit with the banhammer.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5
If you mean that he isn't spouting **** he doesn't believe just for the reaction then sure. But he is closed minded shouting his ill informed opinion post after post. I still think he needs a hit with the banhammer.
So cuz I disagree with you I should be banned gotcha. I'm not interested in your apparent megalomania.
I notice you never provided that evidence to back up any of the things that define coercion, surprise surprise and you have yet to explain how my asking for evidence equates to being ill informed and why your opinion- complete with your laughable definition of coercion and feeding- is somehow better informed, but I'd expect no less from whingers like you anyway.
And if the mods wish to ban me for disagreeing with you and hurting your little feelings, I've already told you they'll take whatever action they deem appropriate you must have missed it the first time. Now go away you boring little crybaby and stick me on ignore you little wuss. I'm still looking for this proof itt. Kinda like a quest only more Crystal Skull than Lost Ark if you get my meaning so don't bother engaging with me again until I find it or until you're prepared to back up your claims with evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-appeals-court

Quote:
“The district courtʹs order releasing appellee Brendan Dassey is stayed pending resolution of this appeal,” the order stated.

In the emergency motion filed by Schimel, the state argued that Dassey admitted to the crime in “extensive detail”, however Duffin – as well as Dassey’s attorneys – have characterized the confession as “involuntary”.

“This case involves the brutal rape, murder, and mutilation of Teresa Halbach that 16-year-old Brendan Dassey committed with his uncle, Steven Avery,” Schimel wrote. “Dassey admitted to his crimes in extensive detail, in an entirely voluntary confession, during which investigators used techniques that courts around the country have approved time and again.”
Quote:
The state countered, saying it has an “extremely high likelihood” of succeeding with its appeal “because the techniques the investigators used here have been approved by numerous courts.”
Guess the state are ill informed too huh blackeyez?

Last edited by corpus vile; 11-17-2016 at 03:38 PM.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 03:49 PM
^^ Agreed Oski, Corpus Vile does not deserve a ban, imo.

If you look for 5ive's posts on this subject it may speed things up.

As for Thursdays ruling...... People need to understand what today's decision is, and what it is not.
While everyone is disappointed in the 7th Circuit ruling, this decision has no bearing on the state's appeal of Duffin's August decision, overturning the case.
Put simply what this decision today turns on is entirely procedural. The fault lies within the wording of Magistrate Duffin's original decision. When he stated that his decision was stayed if the state appealed that was the defining moment for today's decision by the 7th Circuit.
William Duffin is a learned and outstanding lawyer and judge. He failed in this instance to include imminent release criteria in his original decision (something that many of us pointed to in the very beginning, no crime no jail time!) It is obvious now that Magistrate Duffin intended for Brendan to be released while the appeals process plays out. This opinion has great precedent in Habeas cases. However the language Duffin used gave the state the opening they needed to keep Brendan locked up until this is decided.
Don't take this decision to mean more than it does on it's face. Duffin's August decision is on solid legal footing and the process will play out. Today's 7th Circuit decision is no indication of anything beyond that court's reading (correctly) that Duffin erred in staying his decision completely on state appeal.
Get pissed, have a drink. Hug someone you love. Just remember this is far from over. Brendan's day is coming. Soluna View, TTM.

#Ticktockmantiowoc

Last edited by smacc25; 11-17-2016 at 03:59 PM.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 04:06 PM
Thanks for the heads up re 5ive's posts appreciated.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Stuff


Yeah... that's what cops do to get confessions. They don't for example say "hi would you be so kind to confess to this crime? Otherwise we're gonna have a harder time sending you off to prison!"
And then the suspect goes "Sure! Why didn't you say so to begin with? Here's how it went down officer!" Confessions are coaxed, often over several interviews over several days. The cops get inside the suspect's head and elicit a confession on the basis of this. They may get inside via evidence such as the Russel Williams confession or just bs, such as if there's two suspects who committed a crime together and the cops say stuff like "you may as well confess your friend is next door singing like a bird and making you look really bad in the process, tell us your side make it easy on yourself blah blah blah".
Did they get into his head with his first confession and did his own mother get into his head when he confessed to her too (as in the confession which you just quoted from) and his relative when he told her all of this anyway? This is just more raising of the burden of proof bar for certain offenders just cuz it feels right, disregarding that he confessed multiple times and that his confession was supported by evidence.
I've already told you I'm not interested in engaging with you. Your definition of coercion vastly differs from the standard definition as your invalid examples show consistently. Let me finish this so far not so great thread and stop responding to me, seriously.

ETA actually screw it I actually can't be bothered wading through any more of this thread tbh. I'm gonna wait and we'll see how things pan out. As for now Dassey's going nowhere which is good enough for me. If he walks then the victim's family have my condolences ,if his conviction is re-instated then sanity prevails. 'bye.

Last edited by corpus vile; 11-17-2016 at 04:22 PM.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile
Thanks for the heads up re 5ive's posts appreciated.
Mostly around Feb 18
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 04:25 PM
Corpus Vile, here something to help....
http://freebrendan.org/index.php/201...se-confession/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7jD...ature=youtu.be

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMan..._was_coercion/

Part1.... Its a long post by Playingnightcrawlers from MaM reddit....
Unlike Steven Avery there was absolutely no physical evidence or DNA linking Brendan Dassey to the crime both he and Avery were accused and eventually convicted of. Brendan's entire case was built on his confessions which were documented (except for one) and the full transcripts made publicly available. Since all the transcripts combined total to dozens and dozens of pages, and many people have not read through them I've decided to construct a synopsis of his interrogations in chronological order, along with some expounding commentary. I should note at the start that I am not completely impartial regarding Brendan's case as I believe (and as the transcripts will show) the entire narrative that convicted him was gradually built by investigators Weigert and Fassbender in order to solidify their case against Steven Avery. Also a warning that this will be long, so be prepared. I'll break the threads up in parts that correspond to each subsequent interview since each one is lengthy on it's own.
Interview 1: 2/27/06 at Michicot High School
Fassbender starts the interview by informing Brendan they are recording the conversation, however he is not under arrest and they just want to talk. It is here that Fassbender first mentions they know something is bothering Brendan
Fassbender: I know something's bothering ya, and you know that, and it's gotta be laying real real heavy on ya.
Brendan responds to the question of what's bothering him by saying its because Steven is gone and he can't see him. He says he helped him work on cars.
Fassbender: Anything else bothering you?
Brendan: Not really
Brendan is asked about being with Steven the night he had the bonfire and asked if he helped tend to the fire. Brendan says he helped Steven put a car seat in the fire which was already going with some tires and branches when he arrived.
This is when we first see the investigators telling Brendan that they know that Teresa's body was burned in the fire, and that people around the sheriff's department are saying Brendan probably had some involvement in burning the body and that charges could be pressed against him for his involvement. They say they personally don't believe Brendan was involved, but maybe Steven had him help with the fire and he inadvertently saw something.
Fassbender: ...we've got people back at the sheriff's dept., district attorney's office, and their lookin' at this now saying there's no way Brendan Dassey was out there and didn't see something...They're not saying Brendan did it, they're saying that Brendan had something to do with it or the cover up of it which would mean Brendan Dassey could potentially be facing charges for that. And Mark and I are both going well ah he's a kid, he had nothing to do with this, and whether Steven got him there to help build a fire and he inadvertently saw some things and that's what it would be. It wouldn't be that Brendan act-actually helped him dispose of this body.
Fassbender concludes this speech by reiterating that they know Brendan saw something, and that's what's bothering him. This is the precedent that is set for the rest of Brendan's interactions with Weigert and Fassbender, they repeatedly tell him they know what happened, what he saw, what he did, and he just needs to tell them in his own words.
Fassbender: And I'm looking at you Brendan and I know you saw something and that's what's killing you more than anything else, knowing that Steven did this, it hurts.
Brendan is asked what he saw again and he says black garbage bags that Steven was saving for the bonfire. He also says they invited some friends over but they cancelled.
Fassbender then gives another speech where he repeats they know something is bothering him, that they have a lot of information and people are saying to just charge Brendan but Weigert and Fassbender said no, they want to talk to him to help him get information off his chest and that they'll stand by him, they won't leave him high and dry.
Fassbender again asserts that they know the body was in the fire, they know Brendan was there, and they know he must have seen something.
Fassbender: ...I'm afraid you saw something that you wished you never would have seen. You know, I mean, and that's what we need to know. We get that off your chest and we can move forward.
This in my opinion is the first blatant instance of the investigators indirectly instructing Brendan to say what they want to hear, what they already 'know'.
Fassbender: That's the important thing we need to, to get out of you right now, for you. Cuz you're having a tough go of it, and it's not just cuz you can't see Steve but what you saw.
Here Fassbender is starting the trend of telling Brendan that what he is saying isn't true, and directing him to the first incrimination: that he saw something in the fire
Fassbender: Did you see a hand, a foot, something in that fire? Her bones?
Brendan: Well we weren't there for long.....picking the stuff up
Brendan means picking up junk in the golf cart to throw in the fire.
They ask him if the fire was going when he came over Steven's and Brendan says the fire was already started when he got home from school and that he went home for the night at 10:30 pm.
Fassbender asks him if he helped push a Suzuki somewhere and Brendan says into Steven's garage. They ask him again what he saw in the fire and again he says garbage bags containing paper plates and soda bottles.
Fassbender: What else is botherin' ya?
Brendan: Trying to find a girlfriend.
Fassbender: mmhuh.....
Brendan: Tried to get a hold of...girlfriend
Fassbender: Did you just break up?
Brendan: ... she broke up with me.
Fassbender: Well I hope you're gettin' over that. Just a girl, you'll find others right? Talk to your mom about it at all? Did she say the same thing, find other girls?
Brendan:...My mom told me that times heal.
This part is just plain sad. Fassbender repeats that time will heal, then back to business.
Weigert: Brendan, we know that Steve told you to say certain things when the police came and talked to you OK, I know that. We've been told that. What did Steve tell you to tell us?
Again the 'we know' line of questioning is used, reiterating to Brendan that they have all the information already and need him to confirm.
Brendan: ....not to say stuff
It's likely Steven assumed that Brendan would be questioned since he was essentially his alibi that evening, and having had the experience he did with MCSD, and like all adults should tell their kids, told Brendan not so speak with the police.
Weigert: I heard, and I was told Brendan Steve told you what to say and what not to say because it was you and him out by that fire. I know you and him knew what was going on there.
The 'we know' strategy continues to be applied to Brendan's statements.
Weigert: We wanna be able to tell people that Brendan was honest, he's not like Steve, he's honest, he's a good guy. He's gonna go places in his life.
By combining the notion that they already know the truth and by implying that the only way Brendan avoids charges is by being honest ie. telling the truth that Weigert and Fassbender already know, he sets the stage for Brendan having to answer 'honestly' whenever they request it. And when he gives an answer they don't deem 'honest' he has to change it. It appears to work perfectly from this point forward.
Fassbender says that Steven denied having a fire that night, but witnesses said there in fact was a fire.
Brendan says that Steven talked about getting in a car and getting far away from the cops. It's my personal opinion that Steven was probably saying something along the lines of 'I'll get in a car and drive off before I let them put me away for something I didn't do a second time' but I really don't know.
Weigert: That burn pit Brendan was no bigger than this table. OK. I find it quite difficult to believe that if there was a body in that Brendan that you wouldn't have seen something like a hand, a foot, a head, hair, something. OK. We know you saw something.
Here Weigert is further using the 'we already know' strategy and implying that Brendan's initial statement that he didn't see anything is untrue, and that he needs to be 'honest'. Remember they already established what honesty means to them, and that's when Brendan says what they accept and not when he says something they don't. He is also repeating the various body parts that he 'knows' Brendan saw, which were mentioned earlier in the interview by Fassbender. This is now two mentions of feet, hands, and a head in the fire by investigators before Brendan ever says anything of the sort.
Fassbender: I know you saw something...Mark and I both can go back to the district attorney and say, ah, ... Dassey...came forward and finally told us.
Weigert: We'll go to bat for ya, but you have to be honest with us.
Fassbender: Tell us the truth, exactly.
Further demanding 'honesty' and 'truth' from Brendan that they will either confirm or deem false based on what they 'already know'
Brendan eventually says he saw some clothes. A blue shirt, some pants.
Weigert: Was there blood on those clothes? Be honest Brendan. We know. We already know you know. Help us out. Think of yourself here. Help that family out.
Weigert: Was there blood on those clothes?
Brendan: A little bit
And that's the first time Brendan Dassey ties himself to the murder case. It should be painfully clear to anyone reading the transcript to this point that this was extracted from him by methodical manipulation. I'm certain this moment made Weigert and Fassbender incredibly excited because they finally got something they could use against Steven Avery.
Fassbender: You're startin' to, you're starting to get it out right now OK. It'll be alright.....get it all out, doesn't do any good to get half of it out.
Praise for Brendan being 'honest' and implication that there's more they want to hear.
Brendan then says Steven said he was going to bury the fire when it was out and start a new one.
Weigert: Where did he tell you those clothes were from?
Brendan: He said that they were........
Weigert: You kinda knew better though, don't ya?
Some parts here have missing dialogue from both parties, the videos also have some audio missing so it's a bit hard to fill in the gaps but it's safe to assume Brendan said Steven told him they were his old clothes.
Fassbender: You now know better, they were girl clothes, weren't they?
The investigators prompt Brendan to agree that there were female clothes in the garbage bags. They say it first, then have Brendan agree. Its the trend for the whole interview.
Weigert: It's not your fault. Remember that.
Fassbender: Yeah, it's not your fault.
They are essentially putting it into Brendan's mind that what he says and agrees to is not his fault, implying that he won't be in trouble for anything he says.
Fassbender: ...You know we found some flesh in that fire too. We know you saw some flesh. We found it after all that burned. I know you saw it...Tell us.
Yet again the 'we know, be honest' tactic.
Fassbender: You don't have to worry about...(audio missing)...you won't have to prove that in court. Tell us what you saw. You saw some body parts...You're shaking your head..tell us what you saw.
Brendan:.......
Fassbender: You all right? You all right? What other parts did you see?
Brendan: Toes
Fassbender: ...part of a foot too? What other parts of the body...Did you see part of the arm, the legs? I know. It's all right...Did you see part of the head? Skull?
We don't know what Brendan said at first, but when Fassbender says what other parts did you see implies he answered with something like a fingers or a hand. Then when asked what else he says toes. These are things the investigators already mentioned twice to Brendan so it's logical for him to say that's what he saw. Fassbender presses and gives more examples of body parts Brendan could have seen.
Brendan: I seen ....
Fassbender: OK ... a human body...did you say anything to Steven? Was he hoping you didn't see that or what?
Really wish we could hear the full interaction, it's frustrating that some of Brendan's answers are not heard or transcribed. Fassbender confirms it was a body, they got what they set out for. He then coaches Brendan a bit by implying Steven didn't want him to see what he saw and may have said something.
When asked where the body was Brendan says underneath the tires. Says he didn't smell anything.
Fassbender: Let's go over th-the parts you mentioned, OK, so you mentioned toes, fingers, parts of hand and feet and then what you thought maybe was the stomach area or midsection or torso. Did you see any parts of the legs...parts of the legs or arms. You sure you didn't see her, her, now this is very hard, it's eas, not easy but it easier to say your saw a toe or a finger, but when you start saying to me or I saw a head or a face or hair or you know stuff like that, that's when it hurts though but I find it very hard that you didn't see the skull or the head. Did you see part of the head or face or skull?
This statement by Fassbender fills in the blanks from the missing parts of the transcript. The first thing Brendan must have said he saw were fingers, then toes, then belly. You can tell that Fassbender is not quite satisfied so he implies that it's very important that Brendan saw the head. Brendan says somewhat. You can tell he is only mentioning little things like fingers and toes, and 'somewhat' seeing a forehead because in his mind it's not as bad as seeing a whole arm, leg, head. Kind of a depressing glimpse into his mentality at this point.
Brendan says he saw a forehead, they ask if there it was flesh or bone and he says a little bit of flesh. They ask if the body parts were connected and he says yes.
Fassbender: So all the body parts were connected then when you saw the toes, which means they were probably connected to the feet yet, correct? Which means the feet, foot is connected to both the legs, so I'm just going to ask this question, you're saying that you seen body part. You're pretty much, you're seeing a body? Is that accurate? You saw her body in there?
Weigert: Would you say yes or no for me Brendan?
Brendan: Yes
And there it is. By inching him closer and closer from suggesting clothes, to fingers and toes, and then to the head they got Brendan Dassey to claim he saw Teresa Halbach's body in the fire.
They ask him if he helped but the body there and he says no. Then there is some questioning about the time he was at Steven's and he says 9. Repeats the fire was already burning with branches and garbage in the pit. Then they get Barb's golf cart and pick up a car seat to add to the fire.
They ask him to repeat what he saw, and he repeats hands, feet, forehead. They ask him if Steven was raking/shoveling the fire and when Brendan saw the body. Brendan says when they were pushing the car seat on there.
Weigert: OK. Tell me again what do you see in that fire?
Brendan: I .........
Weigert: First you see the feet? And then what?
Brendan: Then I looked around a little bit and I seen ........
Weigert: You saw the hands and the forehead. And then what did you see?
Brendan: ..........
With the audio missing it seems like Weigert is literally speaking for Brendan but that's likely not true. Brendan is merely doing a round 2 of the 'what parts did you see' quiz and answering hands, feet, forehead like he knows to do now. I think this repetition isn't as much for the investigation's sake but to drum the information into Brendan's mind.
Brendan is asked when the clothes went in the fire and he says Steven went in the garage to retrieve them. When asked if he went with Steven to get the clothes he says no. He says usually Steven has garbage off to the side of the garage.
Weigert: Now I-I've been told that you and Steve talked about the body in there, OK, that's what I was told, and I believe that. You guys did talk about it, didn't ya? Brendan: Yeah
By this point the 'we know, confirm this' tactic is old news and it's working on Brendan with incredible consistency.
Weigert: What did he tell you?
Brendan: That I shouldn't say...
Weigert: OK. So you tell me how that conversation went. What did you say to him?
Brendan: I said why did you do it because....and he's like....and told me not to say nothing.
Brendan's thinking back to their first question of what Steven said to him about cops and he answers the same way, not to say anything.
Brendan is asked whether Steven said who the body was, if he was angry, and if he said how he did it. Brendan's answers are undocumented.
Fassbender: You saw her car didn't ya? Her RAV4. Where was it when you saw it?
Having the body in the fire established they move on to the car. Fassbender again tells Brendan that he saw the car, setting the tone for that.
Brendan: On the other side of the street...
Fassbender: Where did you see it later? Was it in his garage later? Did you see it in his garage?
Brendan: ......(audio missing).....
Fassbender: When was the first time you went out again?
Brendan: At night.
Fassbender: At night about 9:00 you said?
Weigert: Where was the truck then?
Brendan: ........(audio missing)....
Brendan is then asked if Steven told him about the body before or after he saw it. Brendan says after.
Fassbender: Did he say how it happened, it's important.
Fassbender: I can't believe that he wouldn't have told you how it happened and how did he kill her....
Weigert: I also heard that he told you how he did it, that's that's true isn't it?
Brendan: Yeah
Weigert appears to have a very good source telling him everything about this murder, he keeps telling Brendan that he heard everything from someone and Brendan just has to confirm it.
Weigert: Tell me what he told you.
Brendan: ...car...the...jeep...
Weigert: What did he tell you he did in the jeep?
Brendan: That he tied her up and stabbed her.
Weigert: Where did he say he did this?
Brendan: .......
Weigert: What else did he tell you?
Brendan: He said how he tried to hide it.
Weigert: How did he try to hide it, what did he tell you?
Brendan: He tried to cover it with branches, a car hood
I'm fairly certain this information is coming from what Brendan saw on the news about the RAV4 and how it was found.
Brendan is asked if she was shot, he says tied up and stabbed. They ask him if Steven took her to the pit and Brendan says yes. Asked if she was stabbed in the car, says yes.
Weigert: Where's the knife he used to stab her?
Brendan: In the truck under the seat.
Weigert: Did he show you the knife?
Fassbender: How do you know that was.....instead of the truck?
Brendan: .........
Weigert: We can't discuss that. How do you know it's in there?
Brendan: .......
This part is frustrating because we don't know what Brendan is saying. It could be that he's asking them if they found the knife or anything in the car, and they tell him they can't discuss it and how does he know it's in there. But this is just my conjecture.
Brendan is asked if he knows how the 'jeep' got where it was and he says Steven drove it past Chuck's. They ask if Chuck knows about this and Brendan says probably.
They confirm Brendan came home at 3:45 and saw Teresa's car, then came back out at 9. Then Brendan is asked if Steven told him anything about what he was going to do with the car, or the license plates.
Fassbender: Where did he say he hid the knife in the car? ....crush it....something specific about that... Brendan: ...under the seat.
It's important to note that even with some parts of this statement are missing, Fassbender mentions crushing the car first.
They ask him if Steven told him why he got mad, and if he ever tried to have sex with Teresa.
Weigert: Did he ever tell you that, it's very important, OK, cuz we heard that he might have told you that.
Brendan:
Weigert: No or yes?
Brendan: No
Weigert: What else did he tell you about her?
Brendan: That she was kinda pretty.
Brendan is then asked if Steven was hurt, if he had any abrasions or if he was bandaged up. He says Steven said he cut his finger on glass by the garage. Weigert says there must have been blood on Steven's clothes from that and asked what he did with those clothes. Brendan's answer isn't recorded.
Weigert: Are you sure? I heard he told you something about that. I heard he told you how he cleaned things up. Be honest now, if he didn't its OK but if he did, you need to tell us.
Brendan answers that he didn't see or hear about the cleanup.
Fassbender: We had heard that he cut himself during the....Did he say that or not? What did he say cuttin' himself during it?
Brendan: .....hurt himself
Fassbender: Did he say where he cut himself?
Brendan: .......
Fassbender: On the knife that he used to kill her, yes or no.
Brendan: Yeah
Fassbender now has an explanation of why Steven's blood is in the car, he cut himself with the murder weapon while stabbing Teresa.
Weigert: Tell us what he told you exactly.
Weigert: That's OK, go ahead.
Brendan: That
Weigert: Go ahead.
Fassbender: Take a second, it's alright.
Weigert: He said that he cut himself, while stabbing her? Yes or no.
Brendan: Yes
Brendan is then asked if he's telling the truth, he says yes. He's asked if he had anything to do with Teresa's death and he says no.
Weigert: Tell me who did.
Brendan: Steve
Weigert: And Steven did it by how again, tell me that again.
Brendan: That he stabbed her.
Weigert and Fassbender then go over the confession so far, repeating everything that was just said and Brendan saying yes to each item.
Weigert: Did he tell you what he was gonna do with her truck?
Brendan: That he might crush it.
Weigert: That he might
Brendan: Start it on fire.
Here Brendan is clearly guessing at what he should say. First he says crush it, which was suggested by Fassbender earlier. When he feels like that may not be what Weigert is looking for he tries again by saying start it on fire.
Weigert: Did he tell you how he got her bloody clothes?
Weigert: Did he tell you those were her clothes?
Brendan: .....
Weigert: Honestly?
Brendan: Yeah
Weigert: What did he tell you?
Brendan: That I should keep my mouth shut, they were hers.
Weigert has Brendan establish they had Teresa's bloody clothes again. When asked what Steven told him at this point, Brendan gives the answer he already knows they accept (not talking), and adds that the clothes were hers.
When asked if he was threatened by Steven, Brendan says sort of. They ask what he said, and Brendan says not to talk or he'll stab him too. They ask him to confirm whose clothes they had and he says Teresa Halbach. They ask Brendan to take a break and when they return they want him to write this all down.
Weigert: You did the right thing Brendan, OK.
Weigert praises Brendan for saying the right things. They come back and give Brendan a soda, then confirm the day of the events as Oct 31st and talk to Brendan about writing out statements.
Fassbender:...we're going to ask you to pretty much write what you told us and what you saw and then make sure above everything else it's the truth. OK. Cuz you can imagine that people may try to question you on that. So just make sure it's the truth and you have nothing to worry about. OK?
Weigert and Fassbender's version of the what the 'truth' is has already been established in Brendan's mind, so as long as he writes down this same truth he has 'nothing to worry about', again giving him the impression that he will not face any consequences from his statements.
Weigert: OK. And print your name, it says I, the undersigned. Print your name with middle initial.
Brendan: Is that cursive?
Weigert: I'm sorry.
Brendan: Is that cursive or?
Weigert: Um, not cur, I don't, I don't remember. It's been a long time since I've had school. Instead of, instead of writing it.
Fassbender: Not cursive.
This part is kind of amusing if not for the gravity of the situation, as Brendan can't distinguish print from cursive and Weigert can't seem to help him.
Brendan then writes his statement and when he's done Weigert reads it back to him out loud.
Weigert: Is I got off the bus at 3:45 and seen her jeep down at Steven's house. Then I went in my house and played Playstation 2 for three hours and then I eat at 8:00 and I watch TV and then got a phone call from Steven, if I wanted to come over to have a fire and I did and he told me to bring the golf cart and I did. So then we went driving around the yard and got to pick up the stuff around the house. Then we dropped the seats by the fire and then we waited for it to go down and throw on the wood and cabinet. Then I seen the toes before we throw the wood and cabinet on the fire. When we did that he seen me that I seen the toes he told me not to say anything and he told me that he stabbed her in the stomach in the pit and he took the knife and put it under the seat in her jeep. Is that your statement Brendan?
Brendan did a solid job repeating what he believes the investigators want to hear but screwed up a bit (earlier he said he put the seat on the fire and saw the toes, not the cabinet). He also left out some things that Weigert and Fassbender wanted in there.
Weigert: Um, did you want to add anything in there about where he stabbed her and why he told you he stabbed her?
Brendan:....why he stabbed her.
Weigert: You told me before that she was, that he was
Brendan: He was angry.
Weigert: Angry
Brendan: Yeah
Weigert: Did you wanna add that into your statement? Yes or no?
Brendan: Yes
Weigert: OK
Fassbender: We both may ask you some questions like that ah and then ah, you want to add it to your statement, you can do so. Based on what you told us there some things we feel you should probably add to your statement, but that's up, that's up to you.
They ask him if he wants to add that she was tied up and stabbed in her truck to his statement. He does. They also say he should add that Steven threatened him.
Weigert: You also told us that he said she was pretty. Do you want to add that in the statement? Yes or no? Brendan: Yes
They ask him if the body was cut up, Brendan says no. When asked what Steven was like when he told Brendan about the stabbing Brendan says he just stared at the ground. They ask him to add the vehicle in the statement and how it was hidden. They ask him to add the clothing to the statement. Brendan adds all of it and says the clothes were a blue shirt and some pants.
Weigert: Did you see anything on that shirt at all?
Brendan: Some blood.
Weigert: Some what?
Brendan: Blood
Weigert: OK, you wanna add that on there if you will?
Weigert: Did he tell you who's shirt it was? Whose pants it was?
Brendan: Yeah
Weigert: Whose did he tell you it was?
Brendan: Teresa's
Weigert: OK
They make sure everything they got from Brendan in their discussion was written down. Meanwhile it seems that Brendan is approaching this whole thing from the point of view of learning a lesson in class and then taking a test on it.
They ask him about any belongings like a purse or camera, Brendan doesn't know.
Fassbender: What about, like the key to her car and stuff like that...in there? OK.
Looks like Fassbender was looking for some statement to explain the key but Brendan didn't confirm it.
They ask him to add the part about Steven saying he was going to get far away. They ask him to add how he felt at the end of the statement, then it looks like they are satisfied with it. They remind him he was free to leave, and that they didn't threaten him, and that the statement was made of his own free will. He says yes and they ask him to add that to the statement.
They then praise Brendan for telling the 'truth'
Fassbender: Brendan, before I neglect to do this, I want to say that I'm extremely proud of you and what, what you did had to be very, very difficult and you're one hell of a kid because that had ta be the hardest thing you probably ever done in your life and I don't know if I could even feel what you hadda just do and I, I truly believe you're one hell of a kid. And you need to believe that too, okay, no matter what anyone says. Weigert: And that goes for both of us. We both believe that.
Brendan is made to feel good about his statements, he is essentially being rewarded for his good work by men that he was intimidated by and has been trying to please the entire interview.
Brendan is asked if he told his mom and he says no. They say that if they find out he didn't tell them the 'truth' about something that he's gonna hear about it. They ask again if he told anyone about this, his brother or his friend Travis. Brendan says no. I think they're asking this to make sure any of those people couldn't give a conflicting account of Brendan's statements.
Fassbender: No. If ah, now that you've made this statement, are you afraid that he would get out, for your own safety?
Brendan: I don't think he's gonna get out.
Fassbender: I know but if he did would, because of what he said to you, would you be afraid?
Brendan: Yeah
Now we know that one key interview between this one and the big incriminating one that was used to convict Brendan and frame the entire story of how Steven killed Teresa happened in a hotel where the investigators took Brendan and his family because they supposedly feared for his safety. I think this mention of fear by Fassbender may be a way to set up this situation, where they could talk to Brendan in an unofficial place without cameras/functioning recording devices.
They then ask him if he wants to go back to school and he says he wants to go to 8th hour at 2:17. They say it's fine, and that they now have to talk to his mom. They get her number and place of employment.
Weigert then gives Brendan his cell and tells him that he's there to answer any hour of any day, and if Brendan thinks of anything else or just wants to talk that he can call him. Brendan is asked what class he has and he says Earth Science.
Fassbender: You should be proud of yourself.
Weigert: You should be.
Fassbender: I certainly would be if I was your parents.
Fassbender: Okay. It's the most difficult thing that you just did.
Weigert: I'm proud of you.
After the last round of praise for Brendan doing a good job they end the interview.
So what have we learned from Brendan's first confession? Well it's a very different story from the one they eventually used, and that story came after an interview at Fox Hills Resort that was never recorded or transcribed. The story they got from this first interview is: Brendan getting a call from Steven in the evening, coming over to his trailer at 9pm with Barb's golf cart. They pick up various junk from the property and throw it on a fire which Steven had already started. Brendan then notices toes and other body parts. Steven sees him notice this and threatens him, tells him that he tied Teresa with a rope and stabbed her in her car and hid the knife under the seat. Steven has her bloody clothes burned (blue shirt, pants). Brendan says Steven was angry and said she was pretty. Steven tells him he drove the car to the pit and hid it with branches and a car hood, and was going to have it crushed or set on fire.
My opinion on this first interview is that Weigert and Fassbender wanted to test the limits on what Brendan would agree to. When they covered all the bases (body, car, weapon, threats) they had Brendan go over everything to reinforce the story in his mind, then had him write it down and helped fill in all the blanks that Brendan forgot.
Interview 2: 2/27/06 at Two Rivers Police Department
The next interview is at the Two Rivers Police Department shortly after this one was conducted, on the same day. This one is basically Weigert and Fassbender going over everything said in the Michicot interview while adding a few more questions to fill in some of the blanks they likely noticed afterward. For example, they asked Brendan how the body got from the car in the pit where Teresa was killed to the fire, and he guesses a sled. They probe a little further about the cut on Steven's hand and Brendan says he got scratched by a finger nail. Remember that in the last interview he just gave the very same day he says he got cut by the knife. He confirms the shirt was blue (important because in the next recorded confession the shirt became two shirts, black and white). And that's about it, the day of interviews is concluded. The next one, Fox Hill Resort, is the biggest mystery since this was when Brendan was taken to a hotel for one night and questioned by Weigert and Fassbender without any recording or transcription. We'll likely never know what was said there, but we know that the next recorded/transcribed interview that happened March 1st, a couple days after Fox Hill, has Brendan much more heavily involved in the crime. The story given here will change significantly, everything from scene of the murder to the weapon, to a rape, hair cutting, throat slashing, and so forth. I'll tackle that one next, but in the meantime hopefully this long winded post generates some discussion and emphasizes just how atrocious Brendan's case was.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 04:26 PM
Sorry Oski... TL;dr
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile
I've already told you I'm not interested in engaging with you. Your definition of coercion vastly differs from the standard definition as your invalid examples show consistently. Let me finish this so far not so great thread and stop responding to me, seriously.
oh man, that last post had nothing to do with you, I had like 3 posts ITT before today and went on a spree while reading the 2/27 to 1/3 transcripts. Sorry you happened to get caught in it

Been slowly shifting towards BD-guilty since watching/listening most of the questionings almost a year ago, but today got me to 95%+ sure he shouldn't be in jail
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 05:03 PM
Oski cheers for the Feb tip and Smacc, thanks very much for your links and cited passages. I'm going through it now and am so far not impressed- particularlywith this bit:
Quote:
Fassbender: ...I'm afraid you saw something that you wished you never would have seen. You know, I mean, and that's what we need to know. We get that off your chest and we can move forward.
This in my opinion is the first blatant instance of the investigators indirectly instructing Brendan to say what they want to hear, what they already 'know'.
and honestly feel that this guy is taking the pi... that I can't take such an opinion very seriously in this instance, (and it certainly does not and I do mean NOT equate to the standard definition of actual coercion and I really cannot emphasise this enough, seriously) but right now I'm tired and will respond to your passage and links in detail tomorrow if I can. Thanks again for your links I very much appreciate it.
Cheers.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 05:37 PM
yw CV.......... I've lost my links to the best review of the interrogations, but 5ive was 1 of the best accounts I read with including what I already new.

Also look up steve moore's blog, Moore to the story with his take on the BD situation... Part 8/9/10 I think.

Its been months since i went over anything to do with the confession and may have forgot stuff so I don't want to get into it with yourself but if you dig you will find.... Best advice is to start at earliest interview Feb, try to find the Missing tapes & remember by 1 march ( if i remember correctly) MW & Fassbender already know that the seeds have been planted in BD head & they have almost got there mission accomplished.

5ive's posts on this are from mostly june/july onwards.. Have a good day

Also everythng fed to BD had already been on the news in repeat cycle from Nov.

Last edited by smacc25; 11-17-2016 at 05:44 PM.
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 05:38 PM
Oski, do you care to change your opinion on the trolling yet?
Making a Murderer Quote
11-17-2016 , 05:59 PM
Smacc thanks again and I will look for his posts.
As for the Steve Moore blog...when you say Steve Moore, do you by any chance mean a certain ex FBI agent? Wife name Michelle?
Because if it is the one I'm personally thinking of then I'm going to have to respectfully decline for reasons which... I really don't wish to specify Suffice to say, I simply don't regard former special agent Moore as a reliable source or a very nice person, again for reasons I'm not touching with a 10 foot pole.
I would suffer confirmation bias wrt to Moore seriously . However I do appreciate your intention and you strike me as a genuine guy, and again cheers
Making a Murderer Quote

      
m