Making a Murderer - Page 38 - OOTV -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

"Steven Avery was clearly having some issues adjusting to life on the outside. He told reporters, "I feel like it's easier in there. Some days, just put me back there, get it all over with."

...

Prior to that trial, Jodi called the police on Steven, on an evening where he became very violent. She came home late from the races and Steve told her to "pack her **** and move out," after saying this he pushed her, causing her to fall into a chair and hit her head. Avery got on top of her and started hitting her, telling her he should kill her. Jodi went to call 911, but before she could talk to the dispatcher, he ripped the phone out of the wall and began choking her with the cord from the phone. When she came to, he dragged her out to the car by her arms and said, "I should get the gun and kill you."

This shouldn't be ignored.

I'm no longer certain of anything except that there is a reasonable doubt in this case. I don't trust any evidence or any people.

At least this whole thing has taught me that I'm too easily swayed.

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01-06-2016 , 08:01 PM

#927

BustoPro

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Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,668

Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

Even if SA is guilty, the sheriffs/prosecution should be investigated by a neutral 3rd party.

It would be a real quick investigation, because how exactly could they prove anything?

"Did you plant any evidence?"
"No."
"Did you conspire to plant evidence?"
"No."
"Next!"

These are cops and prosecutors. They aren't about to blurt out information or give each other up.

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01-06-2016 , 08:13 PM

#928

lostinthesaus

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Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,520

Quote:

So it was technically found in the first 3.5 hours of searching for general physical evidence.

- 3.5 hours is about 3.49 hours too long for that many sets of eyes to not notice it where it was found in the initial searches.

- The stories of the officers on the stand talking about the discovery of the key just seem not truthful. They sound like good loyal friends trying to come up with the best story they can about why and how a key was not found in this location in the first 3.49 hours of searching. Defense utterly destroys them on the stand. I urge you to watch them on the stand again.

- Lenk finding it is just beyond ridiculous.

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01-06-2016 , 08:19 PM

#929

lostinthesaus

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Quote:

This shouldn't be ignored.

Given the source, I am going to actually 100% ignore it.

There just has to be a point that BS is called here. Still not a single fact or piece of physical or circumstantial evidence that does not come with a reasonable amount of probability of being false, planted, fake, or otherwise not credible.

There's just no possible way that all of this evidence is that tainted all at the same time, all by the same people who have varying degrees of conflicts of interest due to having done something similar to the same man once before, but somehow Steven Avery is a murderer after all.

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 01-06-2016 at 08:26 PM.

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01-06-2016 , 08:22 PM

#930

campfirewest

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Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

It was pretty obvious that there were some very dumb stubborn people on the jury who take it on absolute faith that police would never do anything like plant evidence.

People should have a jury of their peers, but that shouldn't be taken literally when the defendant is ******ed.

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01-06-2016 , 08:30 PM

#931

PoorSkillz

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by prana

what evidence is there he was confirming written down information? I've read the year of the vehicle wasn't on the missing persons report.

Colborn said he was confirming information from Wiegert. What evidence is there that he was looking at the plates??

Where did you read that about the year, because I'm guessing it's almost surely wrong.

The rest of what you posted was conspiracy gibberish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8rysh

It's my opinion that none of us can be certain there's reasonable doubt or that we'd definitely find him guilty unless we actually were at the whole trial. I defer to those who were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostinthesaus

- 3.5 hours is about 3.49 hours too long for that many sets of eyes to not notice it where it was found in the initial searches.

It was supposedly hidden in the bookcase/nightstand, not in plain sight.

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01-06-2016 , 08:32 PM

#932

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 8rysh

At least this whole thing has taught me that I'm too easily swayed.

There really is no claim in the doc that SA is innocent, just that most of the evidence was planted, which it was.

If you just had the fact that SA called for TH and no one saw her after that, he makes a logical suspect, but no guilty verdict.

Maybe SA burned the body in the barrel and then wanted to hide the bones in his fire pit. Maybe he did touch the hood latch, but the cops put his DNA on the key, so who knows? Basically can't trust any evidence the cops had access to.

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01-06-2016 , 08:36 PM

#933

Yeti

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

EDTA test does a lot to refute that possibility, seems like even Strang knows that.

some of your points are good but this is just stupid

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01-06-2016 , 08:36 PM

#934

El Rata

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ah so the key was hidden in the nightstand and then they shook it free and it fell on the floor UNDER other stuff that was lying there.

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01-06-2016 , 08:48 PM

#935

prana

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Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8,513

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

So the evidence is Coburn's word that he was doing that? Well then. Sorry.
I already said I read it somewhere that he didn't know the year of the vehicle and linked it itt.

Quote:

The rest of what you posted was conspiracy gibberish.

You laid out a conspiracy and asked people to hypothesize.

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01-06-2016 , 08:52 PM

#936

dalerobk2

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,570

It's pretty crazy to me how many of you are absolutely convinced of his innocence despite the fact that he threatened to kill two women in the past and dosed his family cat in gasoline and tossed it in a fire. And all of those happened as grown man.

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01-06-2016 , 08:53 PM

#937

PoorSkillz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeti

some of your points are good but this is just stupid

And why is it stupid?

The EDTA test found EDTA in the vial and not in the crime-scene samples. While it doesn't prove the blood was not planted, it also doesn't help support that blood was planted.

The only evidence pointing to blood being planted is the box from another case being opened and shoddily taped up. That is not strong evidence imo nor was it in the opinion of the jurors it seems.

Strang basically says that the best hope is a better test that will show EDTA in the blood. I don't even know if that would be enough.

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01-06-2016 , 08:59 PM

#938

Yeti

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Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

And why is it stupid?

because the test is completely meaningless

http://chadsteele.blogspot.com.au/20...ce-in.html?m=1

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01-06-2016 , 08:59 PM

#939

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dalerobk2

I've definitely moved a bit on how likely I think he is to be guilty, but not on whether cops were framing him.

SA should get a new trial. Lenk, Coburn and anyone who directed them get their trials.

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01-06-2016 , 09:02 PM

#940

PoorSkillz

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by prana

So the evidence is Coburn's word that he was doing that? Well then. Sorry.

Wtf that's not how it works. How the hell is Colborn supposed to provide evidence he was confirming the information??

The burden is on the defense to show some kind of evidence that he was looking at the plates, not just say "maybe Colborn looked at the plates when he's calling in, there's no proof that he didn't". The series dresses it up nicely, but there's a reason it didn't fly at the trial.

Anyway, this is the last time I'm responding to you. Sorry.

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01-06-2016 , 09:06 PM

#941

microbet

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The only burden is on the State to prove that SA did it.

If the defense can offer another reasonable explanation for the evidence they are doing their job.

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01-06-2016 , 09:10 PM

#942

PoorSkillz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeti

because the test is completely meaningless

http://chadsteele.blogspot.com.au/20...ce-in.html?m=1

He's basing his opinion on what is shown about the tests in the series and even states, "I do not know all of the work that went into developing the EDTA detection test." I would like to see if his opinion would change if he is able to read the full information about the test and watch the full testimony.

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01-06-2016 , 09:11 PM

#943

Yeti

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Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,208

notes from the court regarding the EDTA discussion:

http://www.convolutedbrian.com/testi...arch-2007.html
http://www.convolutedbrian.com/testi...arch-2007.html

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01-06-2016 , 09:12 PM

#944

PoorSkillz

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Beyond that, the planting blood theory doesn't hold up unless you think they also planted the bones. Because who in their right mind plants blood when they don't even know if the victim is dead yet?

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01-06-2016 , 09:19 PM

#945

luckproof

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dalerobk2

I'm not convinced of anything, for the record.

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01-06-2016 , 09:23 PM

#946

PoorSkillz

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeti

notes from the court regarding the EDTA discussion:

http://www.convolutedbrian.com/testi...arch-2007.html
http://www.convolutedbrian.com/testi...arch-2007.html

It does seem like the EDTA test wasn't the best designed test, but again we don't have all the information.

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01-06-2016 , 09:26 PM

#947

ValuetownJL

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01-06-2016 , 09:51 PM

#948

pokeraz

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Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,867

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeti

it was the 'sub key', yes

This is the key that was 'found'? LOL

Why the valet key? Where the hell are her other keys? Nobody walks around with just a car key and no other keys.

My valet key is in the same place as probably everybody else's valet key. In the glove box in the car. On a ring by itself. Which is probably where the cops got this one.