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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

01-06-2016 , 04:09 PM
Yeah if that's somehow a highlight...
01-06-2016 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Michael Griesbach's book, The Innocent Killer, supposedly covers some of Steven Avery's violent incidents after his exoneration
LOL! Oh you mean former Wisconsin State Prosecutor turned author Michael Griesbach? Seems legit.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/sho...hael_Griesbach

It's hard enough to know he's in jail (again) without a single piece of untainted physical evidence. Circumstantial evidence of supposed guilt in this case could often be used in his defense.

Now, even anecdotal character assassinations spewed all over turn out to be written by the former state of Wis. Prosecutor.

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 01-06-2016 at 04:38 PM.
01-06-2016 , 04:12 PM
This thread is infinitely better with PoorSkillz bringing some good stuff to think about. The points he states are definitely worth considering.

Keep it coming.
01-06-2016 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
LOL! Oh you mean former Wisoncsin State Prosecutor turned author Michael Griesbach? Seems legit.
Yes the same one who helped exonerate Steven Avery from his rape conviction.

Also it's funny seeing people nitpick about the speeding violation while ignoring the issues of perjury and domestic violence. Refusing to acknowledge the truth won't set Steven Avery free, sorry guys.

I feel like this guy in here, sorry for breaking up the "Free Avery" party:

01-06-2016 , 04:47 PM
Avery may have done it and deserve to be in prison, but some of the cops and maybe prosecutors deserve to be in there with him.
01-06-2016 , 04:49 PM
The whole point of the show is that he is no angel but he still deserves a fair trial. At least imo. Poor seems to think otherwise.
01-06-2016 , 05:01 PM
Things I know.

Cops are sketchy.
Evidence/investigation is sketchy.
Nephew likely had nothing to do with it.
SA is poor and so is his family
Trial was unfair.
Wisconsin state judicial system is bad.
County Sheriffs in MC are really corrupt and have no place in law enforcement. If you can't trust law enforcement agent, they have no business being apart of it.
SA has some really weird history with the law.


Things I don't know

If SA is guilty or not--I honestly have no clue. He could have reasonably done it and could have been easily framed. The story the prosecution used makes no sense based on the evidence given/presented.
Why someone murdered TH--motives don't make sense.
If SA is the greatest actor of our time, crazy or innocent.

Even if SA is guilty, the sheriffs/prosecution should be investigated by a neutral 3rd party.

SA deserves a re-trial in a location outside the county he lives and likely outside of Wisconsin at this point. Problem now is with movie it's going to be tough to get a real fair trial anywhere. Obviously Avery has a temper and has said/written a lot of stupid stuff. I'd be pissed too if someone tried to take my kids away when I was rotting in jail for a crime I didn't commit.
01-06-2016 , 05:23 PM
Didn't read the last page or so but....

Everyone seems to agree the key was planted (including me). If so, how did the person who planted it get the key? If it was planted it clearly wasn't on the property in the first place. So how are the car and key separated?

Doesn't the key being planted make it way more likely the car was planted as well?

If you are trying to set up one of several people sharing a property it would make sense here to plant the car first on the outskirts, then plant the key later to link a specific person.
01-06-2016 , 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof Making a Murderer
Didn't read the last page or so but....

Everyone seems to agree the key was planted (including me). If so, how did the person who planted it get the key? If it was planted it clearly wasn't on the property in the first place. So how are the car and key separated?

Doesn't the key being planted make it way more likely the car was planted as well?

If you are trying to set up one of several people sharing a property it would make sense here to plant the car first on the outskirts, then plant the key later to link a specific person.
Good point. Maybe they made a duplicate key--it would explain the lack of prints of TH? Or possibly they were responsible for the whole thing. The cops/sheriffs have the means, motive to do it. That's the problem, when one thing was almost definitely planted it opens up the questions about everything possibly being planted. That's why I said if those sheriffs were not the ones to find the key, I would have no issue with throwing SA to the wolves but them finding it 7 days after the room had been exhaustively searched in plain site makes no sense at all.
01-06-2016 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof Making a Murderer
Didn't read the last page or so but....

Everyone seems to agree the key was planted (including me). If so, how did the person who planted it get the key? If it was planted it clearly wasn't on the property in the first place. So how are the car and key separated?

Doesn't the key being planted make it way more likely the car was planted as well?

If you are trying to set up one of several people sharing a property it would make sense here to plant the car first on the outskirts, then plant the key later to link a specific person.
Either the car and key were off site, like you suggest, or the cops discovered the car with the key in it during an illegal search on the site. The cop(s) kept the key to plant later.
01-06-2016 , 05:48 PM
Is it possible that it is a replacement key TH kept at home?
01-06-2016 , 06:05 PM
It would have been bold/stupid of the police in case the other key showed up, but I wouldn't put it past them.
01-06-2016 , 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichGangi Making a Murderer
Just wow. PoorSkillz could've been on this jury.
He's the only guy that brought some new/solid information and made me question a bunch of things. And this is coming from someone who is leaning towards innocent.

And why the hell has nobody replied on this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
Okay, so besides there being no evidence that he saw the plates, and despite there being evidence that he was just confirming written down information (knowing the year of the car), let's assume he did see the plates.

1. If he's part of this great conspiracy, why would he ask the department about the plates over a phone call (which will obviously be recorded)?

2. In this hypothetical scenario, there is a young girl who's been missing for 3 days. There's 2 branches to this scenario: he either sees her body in the car or he doesn't.

If her body is not in the car:
There is a missing person, very possibly still alive, and he waits two more days to act on this information while framing someone for a murder he's not sure even happened yet.

Not only do you have to assume he doesn't care about finding a missing girl when time is obviously of the essence. You also have to assume he's an idiot for planting blood in the car when he's not even sure what the actual events are yet (risking easily being caught if events don't play out right).

If her body is in the car (we'll even assume the bones are already burnt):
Then you have to assume he planted her bones all over Steven Avery's yard, somehow undetected (the risk of getting caught doing this is unbelievable). (He also sure is lucky Steven had a bonfire that night.)

(Also realize that Colborn is not actually in danger of criminal or financial punishment from the lawsuit, despite how the series portrays it.)
01-06-2016 , 06:52 PM
1. The cop is an idiot. He doesn't give a **** about the woman. He doesn't want to get caught performing an illegal search and blow the case. But, he did just call it in, because he's an idiot.

2. When was SA's blood discovered in the RAV4? They had like 8 weeks to "find" the key.
01-06-2016 , 06:52 PM
How many people do you know that have just a single key that isn't accompanied by other keys on a keychain? I think I've heard somewhere that it was a valet key -- not sure where I heard this.

Theory -- Cops go to brother/ex bf with something like, "Hey we know this guy did it. Can you help us nail him? Did she have a spare key to that vehicle?" This would also explain their weird body language in that gif.
01-06-2016 , 06:56 PM
it was the 'sub key', yes



01-06-2016 , 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre Making a Murderer
Is it possible that it is a replacement key TH kept at home?

I read somewhere on Reddit that this was the 'Valet' key. I think there was a citation. I'll try to find the thread

Edit- slow pony
01-06-2016 , 07:12 PM
And with only SA's dna on it!
01-06-2016 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggetje Making a Murderer
He's the only guy that brought some new/solid information and made me question a bunch of things. And this is coming from someone who is leaning towards innocent.

And why the hell has nobody replied on this:
Thanks. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth posting on here at all, but I guess it's worth it if at least some people are open-minded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet Making a Murderer
1. The cop is an idiot. He doesn't give a **** about the woman. He doesn't want to get caught performing an illegal search and blow the case. But, he did just call it in, because he's an idiot.

2. When was SA's blood discovered in the RAV4? They had like 8 weeks to "find" the key.
1. This is the best you can come up with, eh?

2. Please stop spreading misinformation. I believe the car was inspected on the 6th, and they found the key on November 8th (plus or minus a day) - definitely not 8 weeks later.
01-06-2016 , 07:22 PM
Quote:
"When we were done, we all chose, we all voted, and we chose unanimously not to talk to any media ever and not to bring it up anymore, and none of us did," said the juror. Asked repeatedly which evidence was most persuasive for guilt, the juror declined to comment and again urged OnMilwaukee to go to the courthouse and read the file.
This quote from a juror sticks out to me. Why? Well when reading the article posted in this thread, a juror above said there were no deals, no compromises, nothing of the sort made. True he was referencing the verdict itself but it still comes across inconsistent to me. I really put no form of corruption past anyone at this point.

Quote:
The juror who spoke to OnMilwaukee on the condition of total anonymity expressed general trust in law enforcement and said in the interview that police throughout the country have been mistreated in the media over the past year, a trend the juror thinks is also reflected in the Avery documentary on Netflix, which the person dubbed "one-sided."
If this same juror believes the above I don't want him on my jury. Police treated unfairly? Paleeeeeeeeeeeeze.
01-06-2016 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
Thanks. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth posting on here at all, but I guess it's worth it if at least some people are open-minded.




1. This is the best you can come up with, eh?

2. Please stop spreading misinformation. I believe the car was inspected on the 6th, and they found the key on November 8th (plus or minus a day) - definitely not 8 weeks later.
What's your explanation for 7 searches not finding a key in a small nightstand and then one of the cops who is not supposed to be there finding it?

Or for no blood, other than deer blood in the garage? No TH DNA on the floor, but SA DNA?

Or, no physical evidence of the rape in the trailer?

Or, the broken seal and hole in the evidence blood?
01-06-2016 , 07:52 PM
Regarding the key, according to a reddit poster:

Quote:
...Apparently the key was found on the sixth entry into the trailer, but it was only the second general search of the trailer after the first search was called off due to the rain and late hour. So it was technically found in the first 3.5 hours of searching for general physical evidence.
Read more, including the source, here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...s_trailer_and/

The series (and to be fair, the defense) definitely twists this to seem more damning of the police. I still think the key might have been planted (the lack of Teresa's DNA is certainly odd), but I definitely don't consider it a fact that it was.
01-06-2016 , 07:55 PM
Quote:
Or, the broken seal and hole in the evidence blood?
The hole has a very reasonable explanation and is in fact probably not proof of anything. However, I feel that the evidence tape being cut and then TAPED SHUT is more evidence of tampering. Had it been cut or open on one side and left, it could have been due to degeneration over time and then movement or something to that effect. But this just looks so suspicious.
01-06-2016 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet Making a Murderer
What's your explanation for 7 searches not finding a key in a small nightstand and then one of the cops who is not supposed to be there finding it?
Just covered this.

Quote:
Or for no blood, other than deer blood in the garage? No TH DNA on the floor, but SA DNA?
I'm not sure if anything actually took place in the garage or not.

Quote:
Or, no physical evidence of the rape in the trailer?
Don't know if it actually happened. This is based on Brendan's confession and Avery wasn't charged with rape.

Quote:
Or, the broken seal and hole in the evidence blood?
The hole is normal. Seal is not normal, could've just as easily been negligence, the only evidence to point to blood even possibly being planted. EDTA test does a lot to refute that possibility, seems like even Strang knows that. IMO the timeline for the blood to have been planted doesn't make any sense either.
01-06-2016 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer

Okay, so besides there being no evidence that he saw the plates, and despite there being evidence that he was just confirming written down information (knowing the year of the car), let's assume he did see the plates.
what evidence is there he was confirming written down information? I've read the year of the vehicle wasn't on the missing persons report.

Quote:
1. If he's part of this great conspiracy, why would he ask the department about the plates over a phone call (which will obviously be recorded)?
It's possible the conspiracy wasn't hatched until finding the car when he called in the plates. The police have done many things in the previous case and this which I don't think they realized could come back and bite their ass. They seem to operate, or think they operate, with total immunity. The Attorney General of the State of Wisconsin finding no wrongdoing in the first case seems to confirm that.



Quote:

(Also realize that Colborn is not actually in danger of criminal or financial punishment from the lawsuit, despite how the series portrays it.)


This doesn't mean he doesn't hold animosity towards Avery. As a police officer knowing Avery, who you are so ardent to show was no angel, it has to really grind his gears to know that Avery got one over on his fellow police officers and department. I've seen police hold grudges on people in my town growing up for getting charges dropped in court, not a payment from the county, and certainly not $36 million.

      
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