Making a Murderer - Page 36 - OOTV -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Pressed about specifics in the case, such as whether the juror found it suspicious that a Manitowoc County Sheriff's official had found Halbach's car key in Avery's bedroom after repeated searches by other agencies did not turn it up and after being deposed in Avery's civil law suit, the juror said no.

"No, you just have to think," said the juror. "It was shaken how many times and all of a sudden it was there. It came out of somewhere, totally." Asked whether the juror was saying the key was planted or that the sheriff's official found the key because it had fallen out of the nightstand where Avery hid it, the juror said the latter.

avery was truly tried by a jury of his peers, aka complete ****ing ******s.

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01-06-2016 , 12:27 PM

#877

PoorSkillz

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

The juror called the "Making a Murderer" series "one sided." This juror told OnMilwaukee that nothing in the documentary changed the juror's mind about the case and urged OnMilwaukee to go look through the boxes of court records from the case down at the courthouse. "You have to read the 4-6 boxes."

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01-06-2016 , 12:42 PM

#878

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

Another Avery juror talks
http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articl...urortalks.html

It was pretty obvious that there were some very dumb stubborn people on the jury who take it on absolute faith that police would never do anything like plant evidence.

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01-06-2016 , 12:47 PM

#879

prana

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

He didn't ignore it. He told his superiors about the call. Did you want him to go full McNulty when his bosses ignored it?

.

Yes?

Anyway. Is that even true? I seem to remember him claiming this in the later court date but is there record of it or is he just saying that? I'm working so don't have time to hunt but know I already read this:

http://www.exposingtruth.com/looking...en-avery-case/

Under possible conflict of interest

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The false conviction of Steven Avery that involved the Manitowoc Police Department could have theoretically been overturned in 1995 instead of 2003, due to the confession by the actual offender (Gregory Allen) which was passed on to officer Coburn in 1995. Despite Coburn admitting in court that this was the only time he had ever been called and informed that they had the wrong man in jail, he dismissed the suggestion and never reported it until the day after Steven Avery had been released in September 2003.

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01-06-2016 , 12:47 PM

#880

PoorSkillz

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Quote:

It was pretty obvious that there were some very dumb stubborn people on the jury who take it on absolute faith that police would never do anything like plant evidence.

It's pretty obvious that there are some people in this thread who know basically nothing about the jury and are imparting characteristics and beliefs on them in order to satisfy their own beliefs.

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01-06-2016 , 12:53 PM

#881

Biesterfield

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

Another Avery juror talks
http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articl...urortalks.html

Quote:

"That's all going around now. Cops shooting other people in the backs and everything – turn on the news. So yeah, everybody jumps to conclusions."

At another point, the juror reiterated this theme, saying of the media and Internet critics, "They thrive on that all in the news, bad cops, cops shooting kids in the back." The juror doesn't believe the coverage is fair.

Asked if the juror has respect for law enforcement in general, this juror said, "Just like anyone else." Asked where the juror obtained this belief, the juror said it came from being "brought up hard-working, respectful. I think a lot of the younger people nowadays are not respectful; parents aren't home, they're not respectful, they cover for their kids doing wrong."

you heard it here folks, the problem is kids these days

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01-06-2016 , 12:57 PM

#882

PoorSkillz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by prana

Yes, he told Kocourek.

From the deposition of Gene in the series:

Quote:

All right. He says as he, Doug Jones, was trying to close the conversation, you told him "that in '95 or '96, Andy Colborn had told Manitowoc County Sheriff, Tom Kocourek, that an officer from Brown County had told Colborn that Allen and not Avery might have actually committed the Beerntsen assault."

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OK?

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Did you in fact tell that to Douglass Jones?

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I don't recall.

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All right. Does seeing this document, 124, refresh your recollection?

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My recollection of this conversation, which is not very strong, was that Colborn made a comment to me about getting some information.

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Yeah? OK, the statement goes on and says, the next sentence says, "Gene stated..." That's you. Mm. "...that Colborn was told by Kocourek something to the effect that 'we already have the right guy and he should not concern himself.'"

Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.o...5dd7d7bd994d1d

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01-06-2016 , 01:01 PM

#883

capone0

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The question becomes is there reasonable doubt that SA didn't do it? The answer is obviously yes, but did the jury understand that? Or did they care about that? Like if you are 50/50 yes/no, aren't you supposed to go with not guilty? I'm not sure if that's obvious to every person especially in M county.

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01-06-2016 , 01:03 PM

#884

capone0

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And why isn't Kocourek in more trouble for statements like that. When new evidence is presented, especially KEY evidence to ignore it b/c you are a) stubborn or b) hate the person involved is a huge issue especially when said person is a KEY member of law enforcement in the area. I would never want a person like that being in a position of power when they can actively ignore whatever they want.

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01-06-2016 , 01:05 PM

#885

prana

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Yeah how the attorney general could find nothing wrong is just unreal.

I'm also not convinced that just because coburn reported it up the chain that he did not hold animosity towards Avery. If their attitude towards Avery was anywhere near krantz post trial comments coburn probably did tell him and then they did shots at happy hour and laughed about Avery sitting in jail still.

Last edited by prana; 01-06-2016 at 01:11 PM.

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01-06-2016 , 01:15 PM

#886

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Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

If you think it's impossible that cops plant evidence, there's no doubt SA is guilty.

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01-06-2016 , 01:20 PM

#887

RichGangi

Laughable false & highly douchey

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 9,546

Just wow. PoorSkillz could've been on this jury.

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01-06-2016 , 01:36 PM

#888

bigpotpoker

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Even though the documentary is pretty biased, isn't there enough reasonable doubt there? Also, was it ever explained how he cleaned up the blood? If he did shoot her in the garage there would have to be something.

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01-06-2016 , 01:39 PM

#889

SJCX

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CCuster_911

The dude had a confession on record. Len tried to get it thrown out and couldnt. Take a deal and get a smaller sentence seems like the right move with no other silver bullets available. Now the kid is facing life in prison (or 2046 or whatever) instead of what a deal could get.

Len is obviously a scumbag but many non scumbag lawyers would suggest the same thing I imagine.

How often do you think someone with a confession admissible in court is found not guilty?

Exactly... seems pretty easy to understand.

I believe the family was putting a ton of pressure on Brandon to not take a deal and also recant his confession for Steven.

The injustice done to Brandon wasn't from the police and lawyer, it was done by his family, including his moron mother.

This Len guy wasn't watching a biased one sided documentary, he knew they were guilty.

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01-06-2016 , 01:40 PM

#890

PayoffWiz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

It's pretty obvious that there are some people in this thread who know basically nothing about the jury and are imparting characteristics and beliefs on them in order to satisfy their own beliefs.

When the juror says something like this:

"After finding Avery guilty, this juror said, "I came home and slept like a baby." and this: "I don’t see the justice system as broken. I don’t see it broken" he/she loses me.

If I were a juror and even if I was 95% sure Avery did it, that 5% of doubt would keep me up at night worrying I sent the wrong person to jail for the rest of his life.

Our criminal justice system is broken. Unfortunately what's been documented in the series isn't a one off. We're dealing with systemic failures. The fact that the juror speaks so resolutely (and wrongly) about the issue calls his/her entire judgment into question imho.

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01-06-2016 , 01:41 PM

#891

SJCX

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The Documentary on HBO "The Memphis Three" was also a one sided biased documentary that actually resulted in the release of 3 clearly guilty murderers.

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01-06-2016 , 02:12 PM

#892

PoorSkillz

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichGangi

Just wow. PoorSkillz could've been on this jury.

And you clearly can't be on any jury. DUCY?

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01-06-2016 , 02:19 PM

#893

sweep single

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Not an attorney but it's pretty clear to me that Brendan is ******ed. Not using that term as an insult, I think he really is mentally ******ed. Do laws apply to ******ed people the same way they apply to normal people? Do DA's and judges take that into consideration when prosecuting/sentencing people? I was surprised Brendan isn't eligible for release until he is about 70. I've heard of plenty of teens committing first degree murder and being out in their late 20's.

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01-06-2016 , 02:32 PM

#894

blind squirrel

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In the US yes, apparently?

There are many other jurisdictions that have different laws relating to young and/or ******ed offenders. In Germany up until about 14 you won't be tried at all and after that there is a max. sentence of 10 years for teenagers. There's a chance these laws will apply to people in their 20s if they are assessed to fit youth laws by slow development. Also courts will be shut down to the public when minors are present as defendants or witnesses. We don't have cameras in court anyway, so it is much different to begin with.

Btw, Kratz is using the Mel Gibson excuse in the Fox interview.

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01-06-2016 , 02:33 PM

#895

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJCX

The Documentary on HBO "The Memphis Three" was also a one sided biased documentary that actually resulted in the release of 3 clearly guilty murderers.

Ah yes, another case with a coerced confession of a functionally ******ed person. What was it, 42 minutes of 12 hours of interrogation (without a lawyer present) were taped?

And wasn't the prosecutions best guess for the case that these were ritual satanist sacrifices, something that there is little to no evidence of actually happening?

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01-06-2016 , 02:36 PM

#896

master3004

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Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Also, they weren't released because of the HBO documentary, they were based on dna evidence found at the scene that did not pertain to any of the incarcerated or the victims, indicating there was somebody present who was not in custody that was not the victims.

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01-06-2016 , 02:55 PM

#897

RichGangi

Laughable false & highly douchey

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 9,546

[IMG]http://honda-tech.com/attachments/general-discussion-debate-40/345502d1385572117-chik-fil-provides-impeccable-customer-service-zero-tip-thread-just-went-full-******.jpg[/IMG]

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01-06-2016 , 03:07 PM

#898

PoorSkillz

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Michael Griesbach's book, The Innocent Killer, supposedly covers some of Steven Avery's violent incidents after his exoneration (remember, Griesbach was the ADA who helped get Steven exonerated by reporting information about Gregory Allen to the attorney general). If true, it says a lot about Steven Avery's character.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Innocent-K.../dp/1627223630

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...of_a_wrongful/

According to someone who has read the book:

Quote:

I posted this information in response to another post, but I figured some may be interested in reading this book and wouldn't mind having access to some details before they decide to do so. I do want to attach the disclaimer that none of what I post below is indicative of my belief in Avery's guilt, or innocence.

Here is my short review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/sho...w_action=false[1]

Here is what I posted from the book, in regards to Avery's conduct post-release:

"Steven Avery was clearly having some issues adjusting to life on the outside. He told reporters, "I feel like it's easier in there. Some days, just put me back there, get it all over with."

His criminal conduct included minor infractions, such as speeding. He was found going seventy-nine mph in a fifty-five-mile-per-hour zone. They increasingly get more severe. I do not recall the Netflix program discussing Avery's attempt at derailing Jodi's DUI case, but it may have.

Jodi was convicted of her fifth DUI offense, but according to Avery he was driving when her car went into the ditch. He told the jury at her trial that he was aimlessly driving around the county and then took Jodi to the salvage yard to show her around. A junked vehicle was blocking the entrance, so he used her car to push it out of the way, but rammed the front end too hard. He claims they left the salvage yard and he drove her car into the ditch, because of fog.

Prior to that trial, Jodi called the police on Steven, on an evening where he became very violent. She came home late from the races and Steve told her to "pack her **** and move out," after saying this he pushed her, causing her to fall into a chair and hit her head. Avery got on top of her and started hitting her, telling her he should kill her. Jodi went to call 911, but before she could talk to the dispatcher, he ripped the phone out of the wall and began choking her with the cord from the phone. When she came to, he dragged her out to the car by her arms and said, "I should get the gun and kill you."

Jodi and Steven eventually reconciled, she changed her story and requested to drop the charges. The police issued a disorderly conduct citation, instead of issuing criminal charges."

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01-06-2016 , 03:17 PM

#899

heater

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SJCX

The Documentary on HBO "The Memphis Three" was also a one sided biased documentary that actually resulted in the release of 3 clearly guilty murderers.

You've got to be trolling.