Like I said, deaf ears. Zero percent surprised.

Try reading the report. The official explanation of how and when the police found the car is described in detail. They don't need to explain it all over again to satisfy conspiratards.

No, I'm actually not.

You are the one claiming that "it's 100% true that the car was recorded as being taken in to evidence on the 3rd".

I merely said, "Unless you know for sure how to properly read the records, you can't say this is 100% true."


Okay, prove me wrong by finding the same type of records (not similar type, the same type) with other evidence.

That it was reportedly found on the 5th isn't evidence that the report that it was seized on the 3rd is a typo.

The report could equally well be evidence that the 'finding' was staged - which would also explain why this private investigator Pam Sturm was able to defy all odds and walk directly to where the RAV4 was parked on a 40 acre property with something like 4000 cars.

So it is clear to anyone with a shred of common sense that the 'finding' on the 5th was staged is an elegant explanation for things which must otherwise be chalked up to an amazing odds-defying coincidence.

You are quite correct that if it was logged in as seized on the 3rd (coincidentally with Colburn's calling in the plates that day) then there is some sort of shenanigans.

People with common sense and some experience of the world are well aware that people sometimes indulge in conspiracies. Police are people, and fully capable of lying and planting evidence, as any number of cases known to the public is proof of.

It's also difficult for anyone with the least bit of knowledge about the case to give Manitowoc law enforcement the benefit of the doubt when they've been caught doing very dubious things involving Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey (the 1985 frame up and wrongful conviction of Steven and the coercion of incriminating statements from Brendan).

There are plenty of details about this so-called investigation which seem to be best explained by a pattern of bad faith and deception by law enforcement than by adding any number of ad hoc suggestions about alleged typos, mistakes made in good faith, and astounding coincidences.

It could be evidence of both, but not "equally well."

Typos happen all the time, huge conspiracies like you're talking about happen never.

It's not even a typo because it's not a log of when evidence was seized. It's a summary of the investigation leading to SA's arrest. The car is listed on the report as seized.

Yet you guys spent dozens of pages examining a single line of text as if it was clearly a police log of when evidence was received. Now I am sure you will continue to ignore the fact that, as usual, you had absolutely no idea what you were talking about.

Strum described exactly how she found the car. She was looking down rows of cars with her daughter for about 35-40 minutes. Then she found it.

I'm pretty sure if I was looking for a green RAV4 among 4000 parked cars I could look at quite a few in a half hour or so.

You must go through life in a constant state of amazement if you find this to be an "amazing odds-defying coincidence".

http://itsalmo.st/#dasseysappealdeadline

WTF is your deal man? Are you actually a shill for this thread to keep it alive? You know that we've already thoroughly gone over the complete nonsense that is Pam Sturm's testimony about finding the car. There's about 10 other facets to her story that you are leaving out in order to berate someone for not believing her incredibly improbable search results. Not only was it 20 minutes, but the newly named suspect ex-bf happened to be the one to hand her the ONLY cell phone provided in the search party with a DIRECT number to the Sheriff. WTF!?!?!?

Oh, BTW - Not only that but her testimony is completely different than a recount she gave in an interview a few years later:

Pam's OTHER version

Additionally, and of course this is very subjective, but the phone call itself sounds staged and is filled with dialogue that suggest further invalidation. Pam Sturm is a PI and knows exactly where the VIN is. Pam Sturm reads the VIN back to investigator in Law Enforcement format. "It's just soooooo weird!!!!! It's like COVERED UP!" LOLOL.

Sure if you driving. But for some reason they were not driving which is what they should have been doing as that's how junk yards are arranged, to be able to drive up and down the rows to quickly locate cars. Oh but wait, it magically was not in one of the rows of cars, it was in a side road where the reasons for driving there would have been questioned. But on foot, you can simply wear a cross to the trial and say "God lead me there" and no one will question your means, methods, or motive.

What is amazing is the repeated attempts to berate someone for pointing out the obvious by purposely leaving out the obvious.

It's over.

You seem to be the one who is assuming a 'huge conspiracy' - someone up thread was speaking hyperbolically of 'hundreds' of people!

You make yourself look rather silly arguing conspiracies 'never happen' when we have documented disturbing events involving large conspiracies - probably much larger than anything Manitowoc could possibly come up with - known to everyone with a passable knowledge of history.

You said that the conspiracy would have involved more than 100 cops agreeing not to photograph evidence collection, so I got the more than 100 figure from you.

Any conspiracy involving the police finding the car on Nov. 3, checking it into evidence, then checking it out of evidence, planting Avery's blood in it, and planting it on Avery's lot would have involved a significant number of people, maybe not hundreds but certainly dozens including those who would have had to have noticed something fishy and kept quiet.

I'm actually curious about all the similar conspiracies that have happened throughout history. Can you provide some information about the historical conspiracy you feel is most similar to the one you believe happened in the Avery case? Maybe learning the details might lead me to reassess my opinion of the likelihood of a conspiracy against Avery.

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

I also read today that a 84yr old lady was peppered sprayed after 40 sec by a cop who told her to back off when they entered her house chasing a suspect (her son) for running a stop sign, and the other cops in the video took it in there stride & arrested her.
I guess the little old lady could have been "reaching for something something" or maybe she got uppity.
I guess this is what A.C. was talking about, "the war on cops"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...spray-woman-84

Lol her "other version" is not only a magazine article written by someone else, but it still sounds exceedingly similar to what she testified.

I get it, you don't trust her. Or the cops. Or the Halbach family. Or the ex-bf. The only person you trust is, for whatever strange reason, the guy with the murdered woman in his yard.

And lol at "it's over". You're right. He'll be in jail until he dies. Which is good news for every woman who might have had the misfortune to come in contact with him.

Jew responsible for Germany's post WW1 collapse.

1960 U-2 spy incident where the United States claimed it was used for weather and the pilot died (when he was actually captured.)

Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that have never been verified, yet the President, VP, and Secretary of Defense claimed existed.

The Manhattan Nuclear Project that 100,000 people kept secret (for the most part).

Global Warning seems to be claimed as a conspiracy by both sides. Conventional (politically correct) view is that humans are main contributor.

Apple Computers "evades" billions in taxes by setting up shell corporations.

Non-profit hospitals do not provide the community needs benefit in the proper manner to keep their 501(c)(3) status, yet thousands of people don't seem to care.

Want more?

Smell that.....

That's called sweet success.

#ticktockmantiowoc

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Martin Porter
March 2002


I find that I am not the first to present the manifold forms of Burke’s Triumph of Evil quote. Lee Frank had already given his own list,
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing.

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

In order for ‘evil’ to prevail, all that need happen is for ‘good’ people to do nothing.

All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

The surest way for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

Kiss the girls
This kid is amazing.

Well, lets see...here's a few:

WI detective Phil Charley can't remember who told him to destroy all the DNA evidence in a rape case in which the defendant had already been chosen.

Neighboring county cops frame another man for murder.

Prosecutors retrying a 1980 murder charge against Ralph Armstrong in Madison, WI cannot use the results of a DNA test on a key piece of evidence because the results were obtained in violation of a court order, a judge has ruled. Dane County Circuit Judge Daniel Moeser said the state acted in "bad faith" when it went ahead with the testing without notifying the defense and, in the process, used up the material - in violation of the judge's order.

Manitowoc County circa 1991: Here's a case involving altered transcripts so the DAs could get a conviction.

Wisconsin DA's caught attempting to win convictions against people who have done nothing wrong. Man's own children coerced into testifying against him.

Veteran WI prosecutor found breaking numerous laws and codes of conduct, falsely imprisoning multiple innocent people, abusing power and lying in affidavits to cover his own mistakes

Claiming conspiracies never happen is like saying no one ever cheats at poker.

The interesting thing about many of the documented conspiracies throughout history is that they are often engaged in by already existing organizations. No need to recruit people on the fly. Orders can come from key people and those who carry them out do not even have to know how their little contribution fits into the whole scheme.

In the Halbach case, for example, the County Coroner was barred from the crime scene and prevented from examining the bone fragments allegedly found on the Avery property.

Now one could argue that forgetting to contact her was a mistake (she found out by seeing it on television news!), but actually keeping Debra Kakatsch and her colleagues off site while this evidence was collected had to be a deliberate decision.

Jews responsible for Germany post WW1 collapse? Wtf???

I'm not going to debate anti-semitic trolls.

There's always a good reason to ignore the overwhelming evidence that conspiracies do happen.
The antisemitism rampant in European civilization made targeting the Jews as scapegoats for the economic problems in Germany.

Just like Steven's bad reputation made him an easy scapegoat in the Beernsten case.

And we indeed will not debate with idiotic demands for examples of conspiracies and then accuse the example provider of being the conspirator.

Read your own request. You asked for examples of conspiracies. What you got was perhaps the biggest conspiracy of all time where virtually 1 person was able to get an entire military force to commit atrocious actions upon an entire ethnic group - all based on lies, ignorance.

Yes, bias against the selected scapegoat gives people who are 'only following orders' the justification to go along with otherwise reprehensible actions or ignore the actions of others.

I guess I can give Golf Nutt the benefit of the doubt that he was referring to the Nazis' fomenting of hatred against the Jews, and not alleging a Jewish conspiracy to crash the German economy, which is what his post sounded like.

But I fail to really see a parallel here to the Steven Avery case.

How about a case where law enforcement were exposed for conspiring to plant evidence to frame someone they knew to be innocent? Just to clarify, I'm not interested in cases where cops rush to judgment, develop tunnel vision, and do a shoddy investigation. I'm not interested in corrupt cops who shake people down by planting drugs on them. I'm also not interested in cases where people manipulate evidence to bolster their case against someone they believe to be guilty. I'm sure these things do happen from time to time.

But if you have documented cases of orchestrated frame-ups of people the police knew to be innocent but were out to put away out of some ulterior motive, I'd be interested in hearing about them.