LOl. If these women were sending me 'near naked' pictures, I'd cut my own weiner off just to be safe.

What do you mean? There is a document from the police showing it had taken possession of the RAV4 two days before it was "discovered."

There are 22 calls between RYAN and the sheriff's.

I appreciate you and others may not accept any proffered theory as to why these things happened, but at the same time, you offer zero explanation as to why these things happened.

At the same time, despite there being a trial (2 if you count BD) and a "mountain of evidence" nobody has ever presented a plausible scenario that has SA killing TH.

On the other hand, there is strong evidence that items of evidence were planted, manipulated, or created.

He explained away the RAV4, it was a simple clerical error (he assumes), because, you know, details aren't at all important in a murder investigation

Nothing to see hear Oski, apart from R.H. asking experienced officer's how to conduct a proper search for T.H.

I wonder how the guilty crowd will explain away the missing Motorola Razr.
Maybe it disappeared along with the TEXT messages.

Also we have discovered that items get logged in CASO reports & as the item moves along the process, it seems to disappear too. Tag numbers change then poof like magic it's gone.

I believe A.C. was right to call it a war on police, but unfortunatly it was a coup Andy to prevent the good guys doing their job.

K.Z Has also asked CCSD that the phone has the chip inside so she can process the data, along with the memory card discovered in the Rav4.

This is a great move by K.Z. because either way it WILL SHOW K.K. up for what he was/is, a sorry excuse as a human being.

#ticktock #Zellamiiiii #Itsonlikedonkeykong

Revots, Do you believe they will produce the Razr along with said chips?

Sorry, was pretty busy showing that the prosecution theory is so full of bull**** ...sorry, I mean unsubstantiated assumptions that no rational person could stand up for it.

I addressed virtually everything he posted already.

It's pretty obvious that the police steered the victim into identifying Steven (even going so far as the sketch artist tracing a mugshot of Steven!), and you're correct Sherry Culhane's 'forensic science' was as faulty in the 1985 case as it was in the 2005 case.

What the Coincidence Theorists don't seem to realize is that their ad hoc 'explanations' add vastly more complications to the prosecution case (this was a typo, that was a computer glitch, there must be a very good reason to keep Manitowoc County Coroner Debra Kakatsch away from evidence collection, not one of a hundred plus police thought to photographically document the bones in situ each for their own reasons, etc) that is more simply explained by a concerted effort to pin a crime on Steven (just like they did in the 1985 case).

If they're going to cite Occam's Razor, they should realize that the need to keep adding epicycles to their system to deal with all the facts that go against their theory is making it ludicrously complex. Much simpler to consider that the Earth orbits the sun than keep trying to make their geocentric system work.

.

TLDR

Theory presented by yeotaJMU.

I mean it's just so easy. There were MULTIPLE vehicles impounded at the same time. One was the RAV 4. One was Avery's personal vehicle that clearly had blood droplets from the cut on his finger. Both in possession of LE and crime lab at same time. Blood in RAV 4 is speculated to be from transfer using cotton swap which looks plausible from the photos. It's near the ignition switch and no where else. It is the only place any blood/DNA or any proof of Avery being in vehicle is found.

My concern is that Zellner's DNA age test will show the blood is not old blood. I assume they are aware of the other ways blood would have been transferred and the DNA age test is a bit of a bluff.

Reasons for why a line on a form might be dated 11/3 instead of 11/5 range from the mundane and boring to the exciting and criminal. They have been discussed itt already. You simply choose to ignore the mundane and boring possibilities because they don't fit with your narrative.

As for the 22 calls, the possibilities also range from the mundane (he was helping to coordinate search parties, etc.), to Hollywood-thriller type intrigue (cops were instructing him on where and when to plant the body and car of the woman he had murdered). I don't need to ask if you find the more mundane explanations any more believable than the B-movie ones. Pretty obvious boring answers don't work for you.

Seems that Zellner's strategy is to drag Hillegas through the mud and try to brand him a murderer. Who cares that there is zero proof he had anything to do with it? Unfounded suspicion is enough for the internet detective squad. Besides, he dared to still be friends with an ex-gf... we all know that means he's really a murderer, don't we?

Hopefully Zellner gets sued for libel when all this is done and SA is still rotting in jail where he belongs.

LOL! PoorSkillz lives up to his name.

Sadly, he seems to have everyone on ignore.

You'd think with only his own posts to read, he'd remember he asked for a theory.

As proudfootz so eloquently has pointed out several times, the problem with the mundane explanations is that they actually add immense further complexities and therefor are invalidated. Hence the re-iterations of Occam's razor misapplications by guilters.

When she winds up dead (missing), you were the last one to call her cell provider to request her password, your story about where you were and when you last saw her is sketchy at best, we all know it should AT LEAST make you a suspect, don't we?

Instead we get this:



2 hours after TH's mother reports her missing, SA is named as a suspect for TH's murder. Tell me the mundane explanation for that.

You have it backwards: you are ignoring the "mundane."

The evidence log has the Rav4 going into police custody on Nov. 3. Accepting the date at face value is the "mundane" option.

Without any evidence to the contrary (and I asked you, and you confirmed you do not have any) you claim the date is in error.

So, who is doing what again?

Why would you assume that a document produced by a police department that presumably would be doing the same type of action over and over, every day, would be in error, especially where there is no evidence of an error?

As for "no evidence" RH is involved in any way? Are you kidding?

1. ex boyfriend;
2. stays in constant contact with TH - quite obvious he wants to get back together with her;
3. Quite obvious she does not want to get back together - she even lives with another man (no relationship between them, but still);
4. Someone has been harassing TH with telephone calls and texts (her boss testified to that);
5. RH saw her the day before she disappeared and knew her plans;
6. RH accessed her VM and computer using passwords he "guessed."
7. Apparently, there are 22 phone calls between Ryan and the sheriff's dept. on Nov. 3. Why is Ryan involved at at all? Why aren't those calls between the sheriff and TH's brother (for example) - even the roommate would seem a better candidate.
8. Ryan, without anyone requesting him to do so, organizes a search party (why he would be particularly qualified for this is anyone's guess since RH is not from around SA's area);
9. The person Ryan gives instructions to and a camera finds the RAV4 inside of 20 minutes of the search on SA's property.
10. Footage of RH carefully weighing and answering the question from the reporter about being on SA's property.
11. Ryan's demeanor at trial.

- I'm sure there are more as this is off the top of my head, but you get the idea. That you made the claims you do regarding RH show bias in the most extreme.

*** With that list above, considering the discussion about a conspiracy to frame SA, you think RH should not have even been interviewed as a potential suspect? I sure do.

1. Protected speech in connection with legal proceedings;
2. Opinions are not actionable.

If you want to talk about libel in this case, how about your buddy Krantz and his public accusations against Brendan?

But either way it requires an explanation.

Obviously, any scenario requires some speculation.

It is rather odd if they have to recruit Hillegas to help with the investigation, but find reasons to bar the County Coroner from examining the burn pit.

She's just asking for those 'boring' explanations. I'm sure someone will hastily come up with something.

Since this is a legal matter, I suppose whatever is found out by asking all these questions that upset you will come out. Maybe it will tend to show Hillegas was perfectly innocent. It'd be nice to settle that.

Unfounded confidence is enough for the internet police apologists.

It's clear to most rational people that having more information will help everyone make better judgements. Not sure exactly why anyone would argue that information should be suppressed.

It's definitely more relevant than some random dude who killed a cat 20 years prior to this guy's ex turning up dead.

Maybe Hillegas can sue the phone company for keeping records of the phone calls.

How is that libel again?

With any luck justice will be served and Steven will be out of prison when all this is over.

Too many people treat the words 'Occam's Razor' as if it were some magic spell from Harry Potter.

Try going before a judge and start shouting about how the charges against you are 'too complex' and that the case should be dismissed.

Well the keys for spelling out 'Witness - Missing Person Case' are so doggone close to the keys that spell 'Suspect - Homicide Non-negligent'.

Just a typo.

A conspiracy involving more than a hundred people is a simpler explanation than some data entry clerk making a typo?

Wrong again.

The two options available for your question are these:

1. Data clerk making a typo (no evidence for this, btw);

2. Data clerk properly entering the data on the form.

You may disagree (and given your posting history, you probably will) but choosing option 2 does not mean that you subscribe to a "conspiracy involving more than a hundred people," Instead, choosing Option 2 just means you are more inclined to believe this simple task was properly completed, especially when there is no evidence to the contrary.

Your position here contradicts your entire stated basis of approaching this matter - look for the simple explanation. Here, you ignore the simple explanation in favor of an aberration (an error) without any evidence.

Which "conspiracy" talked about itt has involved 100 ppl.

I know you guys are just shilling and being obtuse, but the police didn't have to actually be involved in anything other that narrow sighted police work and bolstering their case against "their guy". So really, as few as 1 or 2 LE couple have been involved in bolstering the case against SA and no one else would have been the wiser (or cared for that matter)

+1 to all of this.


A note on the 22 calls...

There is no evidence submitted that substantiates the claim that Ryan "received approximately 22 calls from law enforcement on November 4". The calls merely show up as "No ID" in his phone log.

Now one might trust a lawyer to have proper evidence to substantiate her claims, but it's already been shown that this is not the case with Kathleen Zellner.

For instance, consider Zellner's claim in her motion that Ryan "accessed the property using a false name". The evidence she cites (exhibit G) is a civilian search map written by someone else which contains the words "Ryan Kilgus Group".



This is like claiming that someone entered Starbucks under a false name and presenting their misspelled name on a coffee cup as proof.

That's why I think accepting all of Zellner's claims as fact is foolish, and I look forward to the State's response.



That said, I do think there's a good chance the 22 calls were from LE; it's just a lot less underhanded than the conspiracy theorists think.

First, if Zellner does know they were from LE, I would guess they're from Calumet and not Manitowoc, hence the wording "from law enforcement" rather than "from MTSO" or "from Colborn/Lenk". If that's the case, are we adding another department to the frame-job?

Secondly, according to Ryan's testimony, Friday afternoon/night consisted of putting up posters, then holding a meeting with around 50 people to organize the search party/plans for Saturday. That's one heck of an alibi to make up if you're actually out committing the greatest frame-job since 9/11.


What I think is most likely, regarding the 22 calls, is either that calls to the CASO (the main number listed under the posters they put up) from people asking how to help were transferred to Ryan or that the Halbach family had their calls automatically forwarded to Ryan who was unofficially leading the search effort. (Note: these phone logs also dispel conspiracy theorists' theories that Ryan was some kind of angry stalker, as they show Ryan and Teresa had many phone calls over the month of October, with her calling him just as much as he called her.)

One final note: guys, please keep quoting Oski's conspiracy theories and claims such as "It was very likely the cops were already keeping close tabs on SA", because I find them hilarious!

I honestly don't personally care either way of SA is guilt or innocent. I think it's clear that there were a lot of issues with this investigation.

I do secretly hope that KZ exonerates SA, simply because it'll bring me personal joy to know Shillz and company will be steaming mad

Provide one instance of anyone in this thread taking "Zellner's claims" as fact.

In what universe do competent, honest police departments rely on a missing person's ex-boyfriend to coordinate a search party?

Do you even know the meaning of the word "mundane"?

I must admit, skillz put you on ignore rather quickly, I new it was coming & It was the safest bet of the year tbh. Props my fellow 2+2er, you won the 1st few battles now lets win this "WAR".