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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

08-29-2016 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
Here is my guess (I will keep it brief for now):

Ryan killed T.H and was basically caught red-handed by Colburn or someone working for Colburn.

Colburn hatched the idea that this was a lottery ticket if they could pin this on Avery. Colburn discusses this with Lenk and they make Ryan an offer he can't refuse.

So, the three of them work to pin this on Avery.
No, Colborn and Lenk did not dream up this plan after catching Ryan. The plan had to come from way up and was probably made by a few powerful good ol' boys and this guy:



The list of means, methods and motives this individual has to plan and carryout a crime like this is very plausible imo.

I still think Tadych is the one who carried out the actual murder although Zellner's introduction of circumstantial evidence of individuals accessing the lot using false names is interesting.

It was likely a group effort but as I've stated before, it would require a far smaller group than others ITT believe. The planting of evidence, poor police work, lies, cover ups and illegal activity of LE simply fall under the role of a loyal foot soldier doing their duty. They likely have or had no idea what was actually being carried out here. Everyone "knows" Avery did it because he is "part of a gene pool that should be stopped here" so whatever it takes to get him in jail, save the county from bankruptcy AND save a lot of "good" guys' jobs, careers and pensions will be done with no questions asked. A simple review of the first frame job they pulled on him will show you that this same group of LE will purposely make the "evidence" fit the suspect they want with no other motive than "we just don't like him (them)". DNA evidence fully exonerates him and the head and former heads of law enforcement STILL openly question SA's guilt under oath. That's just unreal.

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 08-29-2016 at 08:22 PM.
08-29-2016 , 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
This is just wrong, I'm sorry. You don't investigate random unfounded theories. If you did, every investigation would be endless, limited only by people's ability to imagine conspiracies and possible suspects with possible motives. In the real world cops collect evidence, and identify suspects based on the evidence they find.
You investigate as much as you can with what resources are allocated. They had 200 law enforcement officers on this case and spent millions of dollars.

Anything that appears out of place or is a hunch, a good seasoned investigator may examine. Some still consult astrologists.

When looking at a place and asking a person why they checked a certain vicinity first and they answer with the belief that God led them there, follow-up questions are appropriate. I never said she killed TH or had anything to do with her disappearance. Questioning her more diligently does not equate to following up endlessly.

You have the person that found the homicide victim's car. Away from the rest of the search party. She also doesn't see any blood. She also identifies herself in a quasi-law enforcement capacity. As sketchy as it comes.

Go ahead though and keep believing your fantasy narrative and that things were handled appropriately. I wish I was naive as you appear and could embrace the convoluted theory that was used to convict SA and BD.
08-29-2016 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
Here is my guess (I will keep it brief for now):

Ryan killed T.H and was basically caught red-handed by Colburn or someone working for Colburn.

Colburn hatched the idea that this was a lottery ticket if they could pin this on Avery. Colburn discusses this with Lenk and they make Ryan an offer he can't refuse.

So, the three of them work to pin this on Avery.
https://justanothersouthernsocialist...-steven-avery/

O.K oski since your back in the discussion...

KP done the deed or set it up(out of town my ass), some cop watching Avery's calls in T.H.( Or strange vehicle leaving S.A.)& remember only select cops are privy to this info, & K.P. catches up with T.H. (Location unknown).

T.H. could already be dead & K.P. disposes off her body, (its a professional job when no teeth are left, sorry) guess it took a couple day's hence the wait to find the 1st bones. And K.P. knows not to let ANYONE beside his (Possible hitman) know anymore details.

A.C would be running for sheriff soon & some bosses say he we got you on this ticket. (If any encouragement was needed, after S.A sues the county.)
so A.C & J.L. both provide assistance to frame S.A. ( Highly possible that J.L. IS the hitman)

JR finds the Rav4 down at the quarry, calls his Local Friendly Officer, knowing fine well who's car it could be & gets told when A.C. goes to reassure JR that it will disappear "few".

Ryan I believe is that all around good guy you know the one that can't say NO, tries to please everyone but really just a guy that gets caught up in dumb to seriously dumb sh*t, like assisting MCSD in planting a vehicle belonging to a MURDER case.

tl;Dr..
K.P. Is main protagonist. (puppet master or killer) but defo hands on kinda guy.
A.C & J.L. Are the fools who got involved in K.P.'s Set-up.

Ryan Coulden't help himself & done whatever was needed plus some, lying on stand as a smoke screen ect, so as he would look guilty if it went tit's up.
another K.P. puppet, lol.
Others would be involved & would not care to question either the investigation or timing of events as long as S.A. got done for suing Proud Manitiowoc County.

That's my hypothetical Oski....The kid got played imo.
08-29-2016 , 09:01 PM
Based on this timeline, it seems like Steven would have little time to squeeze in the abduction, rape, murder, disposal of corpse, and sparkling clean up of all the evidence of all this alleged activity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMan...2005_timeline/
08-29-2016 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz Making a Murderer
Based on this timeline, it seems like Steven would have little time to squeeze in the abduction, rape, murder, disposal of corpse, and sparkling clean up of all the evidence of all this alleged activity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMan...2005_timeline/
Info from K.Z. motion...
A civilian search map. Was this the 1 that R.H. gave P.S.?


Along with The infamous A.C. dispatch call & the property document info of "rav4 seized 3rd Nov" the evidence is starting to make sense, imo.

thanks to c4virus on reddit.
The only thing we can know from this map is that whoever drew this knew where the car was and was conveying that info to somebody else. The motion seems to state that RH drew this map or was given it as it's titled "Civilian Search Map" and other actions of his are discussed in the same paragraph.
Either RH planted the car there or was told by somebody that the car is there. RH then directs PS as to where to find it.
From there it's one of two things. RH himself is involved in the killing and planting or the planting and framing (not killing).
08-29-2016 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
No, Colborn and Lenk did not dream up this plan after catching Ryan. The plan had to come from way up and was probably made by a few powerful good ol' boys and this guy:



The list of means, methods and motives this individual has to plan and carryout a crime like this is very plausible imo.

I still think Tadych is the one who carried out the actual murder although Zellner's introduction of circumstantial evidence of individuals accessing the lot using false names is interesting.

It was likely a group effort but as I've stated before, it would require a far smaller group than others ITT believe. The planting of evidence, poor police work, lies, cover ups and illegal activity of LE simply fall under the role of a loyal foot soldier doing their duty. They likely have or had no idea what was actually being carried out here. Everyone "knows" Avery did it because he is "part of a gene pool that should be stopped here" so whatever it takes to get him in jail, save the county from bankruptcy AND save a lot of "good" guys' jobs, careers and pensions will be done with no questions asked. A simple review of the first frame job they pulled on him will show you that this same group of LE will purposely make the "evidence" fit the suspect they want with no other motive than "we just don't like him (them)". DNA evidence fully exonerates him and the head and former heads of law enforcement STILL openly question SA's guilt under oath. That's just unreal.
Yeah, we are on the same page here.
08-29-2016 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
https://justanothersouthernsocialist...-steven-avery/

O.K oski since your back in the discussion...

KP done the deed or set it up(out of town my ass), some cop watching Avery's calls in T.H.( Or strange vehicle leaving S.A.)& remember only select cops are privy to this info, & K.P. catches up with T.H. (Location unknown).

T.H. could already be dead & K.P. disposes off her body, (its a professional job when no teeth are left, sorry) guess it took a couple day's hence the wait to find the 1st bones. And K.P. knows not to let ANYONE beside his (Possible hitman) know anymore details.

A.C would be running for sheriff soon & some bosses say he we got you on this ticket. (If any encouragement was needed, after S.A sues the county.)
so A.C & J.L. both provide assistance to frame S.A. ( Highly possible that J.L. IS the hitman)

JR finds the Rav4 down at the quarry, calls his Local Friendly Officer, knowing fine well who's car it could be & gets told when A.C. goes to reassure JR that it will disappear "few".

Ryan I believe is that all around good guy you know the one that can't say NO, tries to please everyone but really just a guy that gets caught up in dumb to seriously dumb sh*t, like assisting MCSD in planting a vehicle belonging to a MURDER case.

tl;Dr..
K.P. Is main protagonist. (puppet master or killer) but defo hands on kinda guy.
A.C & J.L. Are the fools who got involved in K.P.'s Set-up.

Ryan Coulden't help himself & done whatever was needed plus some, lying on stand as a smoke screen ect, so as he would look guilty if it went tit's up.
another K.P. puppet, lol.
Others would be involved & would not care to question either the investigation or timing of events as long as S.A. got done for suing Proud Manitiowoc County.

That's my hypothetical Oski....The kid got played imo.
Well, that is an interesting read. My guess was basically that, but I did not know about K.P. or the other guy and I did not know how closely those 4 officers worked together.

By the way, is that your blog?
08-30-2016 , 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
And I assume you disagree that this pet theory of yours has a rather large element of 9/11 truthiness to it? Because it does. Quite frankly, it's ridiculous.
You have quixotic method of advancing an argument with this "9/11 truthiness". I don't know much about "truthers" but I gather they don't buy the government's version of events. And by extension they don't buy that there were really weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Or that the "Mission Accomplished" never was really accomplished.

Conspiracy "theorists" and conspiracy "nuts" have been grouped together as crazy. The word conspiracy has a negative connotation. As does "truth". Sad.

Instead of attacking the people who don't believe SA/BD are guilty, show evidence. I would love to read it. As SA's attorney said, "I hope he is guilty". This is coming from someone who believes the "documentary" was for entertainment purposes only and obfuscated, conveniently, other real issues.

There is a preponderance of doubt in this case. As much as I hate to see someone whose idea of goofing around is burning a cat go free, our "justice system" failed him and BD. Beyond a reasonable doubt.
08-30-2016 , 12:21 AM
Lol these conspiracy theories are just too much. I didn't think it was possible but they are actually getting more ridiculous as this thread goes on. Entertaining though. Much more interesting than reality.
08-30-2016 , 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
Well, that is an interesting read. My guess was basically that, but I did not know about K.P. or the other guy and I did not know how closely those 4 officers worked together.

By the way, is that your blog?
The problem with advancing all these different theories is that it detracts from SA/BD reasonable doubt.

It does make it very easy though if we find "the real killer" to exonerate them. Just like in the first case when Gregory Allen was found to be the true perp. It went from "unknown" to "known" and set the stage for SA's relatively uncontested release.

We all can sleep believing that TH's killer(s) are in jail than it moving to an unsolved case. There is also the unfortunate fact that if we release SA and BD that they have little chance of integrating back into society. I don't know where they could even live. It seems amazing to most of us that SA went straight back to the same little town where law enforcement despised him and he was actively suing. Institutionalized.
08-30-2016 , 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
By the way, is that your blog?
No.

I have always had the feeling after seeing K.P. on that show Dr drew, tough old cookie as we say, never seen to much but always there.
Out of town? Not involved in investigation until he got back late on the 5th after it had been handed over to CCSD, my ass. Heads would have rolled right down the steps of MC cop shop on the 6th Nov 2005 if that really happened to the Sheriff.
It was indeed stupid of him to talk like that on Dr drew because it showed among other things that he has the right to take a life, so to say.

Always keep your cards close to your chest is the old saying I believe, A.C. failed badly on that 1 after his undisputed call to dispatch that he also tried to lie in court about. Sorry A.C. no sheriff's badge this time even after trying so hard to gain the public vote by walking by B.D's side.
I think a few ppl dodged a bullet there.
08-30-2016 , 12:31 AM
Dude, chill about the cat. It's definitely ****ed up. But you are acting like killing a cat makes him the worst person on the planet.

People kill all kinds of innocent animals... Deer, squirrels, birds, etc. Choosing one and saying it is the worst thing of all time because it's generally domesticated is weird. And again, I agree that it is totally ****ed. But if a chicken walked by and he threw that in a fire would you feel the same?
08-30-2016 , 12:42 AM
The problem with the documentary and the defense was the failed gamble they took on intertwining the 1985 case evidence. The tape on the box appearing to not be affixed correctly with a hole in the test tube. And then trying to say this is where the blood found in the car originated. From a false conviction. What a story.

I walked into a medical lab today. I checked 200 test tubes filled with blood. 200 small holes in the top. Exactly like in the documentary. Yeah, I guess that is a way to get blood out of a tube. It is also the method to get blood in a tube directly from a needle. Without having to twist the top.

I understand that the defense was limited in arguments and because they were not allowed to bring up other potential suspects, they had to try every "trick" possible to plant (ironic) reasonable doubt with the jury. This 1985 blood "gotcha" horribly backfired. It gave reason to bring in the FBI to the trial which provided incredibly validity to the prosecution.
08-30-2016 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Lol these conspiracy theories are just too much. I didn't think it was possible but they are actually getting more ridiculous as this thread goes on. Entertaining though. Much more interesting than reality.
WTF are you talking about?

Stances have pretty much stayed the same and now they are being strengthened by KZs efforts.

Again, you are now the conspiracy theorist. You believe that with absolutely no motive whatsoever, we're all a part of one big conspiracy to make LE look bad and set an obvious raping murderer back out on the street.
08-30-2016 , 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeotaJMU Making a Murderer
Dude, chill about the cat. It's definitely ****ed up. But you are acting like killing a cat makes him the worst person on the planet.

People kill all kinds of innocent animals... Deer, squirrels, birds, etc. Choosing one and saying it is the worst thing of all time because it's generally domesticated is weird. And again, I agree that it is totally ****ed. But if a chicken walked by and he threw that in a fire would you feel the same?
I am admittedly biased! Yes, I eat many animals.

I also believe that most murderers of people started murdering animals. Sociopaths.

I would not feel the same about a chicken. I would feel sadness, but not outrage. I am not alone in that feeling. Society has done a terrific job of making us care more about cats and dogs than pigs and birds. My dogs and cats have names. Pigs, unfortunately, go on top of my cow meat. And then in my mouth.

My point was that I can overcome my anger, hatred and bias and recognize that a terrible injustice occurred. There was also some slight subterfuge on this issue and it appeared to be downplayed. By me.
08-30-2016 , 12:59 AM
I think RH and Bro Halback were approached by LE and told that they knew who did it but needed their help in making sure he went to jail and was not allowed to get away with it because of his notoriety and history with LE falsely imprisoning him.

It's the only reason I can think of that he acts the way he does AND supports a fairly obvious suspect in RH.

I mean come on, it's his sister.
08-30-2016 , 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt Making a Murderer
I wish I was naive as you appear and could embrace the convoluted theory that was used to convict SA and BD.
Nobody desires to be as stupid and unquestioning as that. Such a person would have great difficulty living in today's complex world.
08-30-2016 , 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
WTF are you talking about?

Stances have pretty much stayed the same and now they are being strengthened by KZs efforts.

Again, you are now the conspiracy theorist. You believe that with absolutely no motive whatsoever, we're all a part of one big conspiracy to make LE look bad and set an obvious raping murderer back out on the street.
You have to be blind to not believe there is/was reasonable doubt.

The state said there was a gang-rape, knifing, 11 gun shots and then burning a body that left one tooth. This occurred over hours during daylight at a public business. The remnants of this violent struggle are some bleach on the floor and a bullet found months later that can never be retested.

I am confused. Are conspiracy nuts the people who believe this or don't believe this?
08-30-2016 , 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
I think RH and Bro Halback were approached by LE and told that they knew who did it but needed their help in making sure he went to jail and was not allowed to get away with it because of his notoriety and history with LE falsely imprisoning him.

It's the only reason I can think of that he acts the way he does AND supports a fairly obvious suspect in RH.

I mean come on, it's his sister.
I agree with that. And that the police didn't care who did it since they were waiting for some crime to pin on avery
08-30-2016 , 02:09 AM
Bonus point if her ex did it since that would **** the police super hard to have assisted the murderer
08-30-2016 , 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti Making a Murderer
revots33, PoorSkillz,

Have you ever had your IQ tested? I am genuinely curious.
How curious are you?

I will answer your question if you first do this:

Present me with a comprehensive theory of how TH was killed and Steven was framed. It doesn't have to be the theory you believe in, but it has to be one you believe is a reasonable theory that has a realistic chance of being true.

I'd like to know the who/what/where/when/how (bonus points for why).

It should cover everything from how they knew she was just at Steven's and that he would have no alibi and be having a huge fire that night, to how the bones/bullet/blood were found and planted, to how the tests done by the crime lab and FBI helped confirm his guilt, and everything in between.

Now, this theory doesn't necessarily have to be supported by evidence (of course not, there is none), but try to keep the theory of stuff planted to what the facts of the case were (e.g Lenk and Colborn were not involved in the garage search in March, so you can't just say they planted it then; furthermore, I think the gun it matched was kept in a crime lab in Madison, so you would also have to explain how they got the bullet with TH dna on it).


This may seem like a lot to ask for, and I suspect you'll just claim that you "don't care anymore", but think about it: you've been following the case for several months now believing it's a reasonable possibility that Steven was framed for murder; wouldn't you like to have in writing at least one reasonable theory (in your mind at the very least) of how it all went down? I'd sure like to read it.
08-30-2016 , 04:18 AM
I binged all the episodes last December/January. I am up in the air on whether Avery did it. If he didn't do it, then he has to be the most cursed person alive. If he did do it, then I would lean to the probability that evidence was planted (frame a guilty man).

And if he did do it, it has to be one of the great meltdowns ever, as he was just about to get tens of millions of dollars. Wow.
08-30-2016 , 04:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
How curious are you?

I will answer your question if you first do this:

Present me with a comprehensive theory of how TH was killed and Steven was framed. It doesn't have to be the theory you believe in, but it has to be one you believe is a reasonable theory that has a realistic chance of being true.

.
Lol. The prosecutor couldn't even do that much for his case against Avery, and he got a conviction.

Gtfo.

It's not like you know anything, anyway. Nobody gives a crap what you have to say about competing narratives on this case because you are hopelessly biased.

You and your fellow shill revolts keep acting as if BD's confession hasn't been thrown out. This is why you and him keep falling down - you pretend that new information does not exist, or that it cannot possibly affect your prior conclusions (and Revolts makes particularly good use of circular logic for this)
08-30-2016 , 04:19 AM
Was glad to see the kid get his conviction reversed. Can't imagine them retrying him.
08-30-2016 , 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jharlan Making a Murderer
Was glad to see the kid get his conviction reversed. Can't imagine them retrying him.
How about appealing the decision for many years.

Or it gets reversed.

Or he gets released and can't function in society as a mini-celeb with some money. In a different town.

Or he gets tried again and is convicted.

      
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