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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

08-27-2016 , 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti Making a Murderer
haha, yes.





love that we are back at this call. best moment of the show. i always laugh at 'uh, i thought she said that??' and strang just silently playing it again.

Amazing.

I can't believe that would be in their records.
08-27-2016 , 01:35 AM
When I watched the first 30 minutes, I was thinking there is no way I am watching 10 episodes of this trash. Steven Avery is a petty criminal at best, this happened in a no-nothing town and this case is over 10 years old. Who cares. I also didn't buy that he was completely innocent in the first conviction since it was concurrent with the 6-year penalty for pointing a loaded weapon. Literary license.

I could tell quickly that this was biased as a pro-Avery/pro-defense team effort which irritated me even more and I tried to find ways not to like/believe him.

And yet, I am completely convinced, even if he is guilty, that this was a truly shockingly fast and narrow investigation that led to the jury trial and his and BD's convictions. The explanation of the State seems as contrived then as it does now. The State had such an incentive to ensure SA was locked-up (not even convicted) since that called off all the depositions in his first case.

Literally hours after TH is missing, everyone is saying she is dead without any definitive proof and the ex-boyfriend in her life is the one leading the "search" team and coordinating with law enforcement when he should have, statistically, been the number one suspect. Even if we take it with 100% certainty that TH was last seen on SA's property AND the bones are hers, that in no way rules out RH as a suspect. Especially one that days later is allowed to sign-in at the crime scene when it was restricted to law enforcement personnel only.

What was any purpose of an ex-boyfriend being allowed to visit the actual crime scene? Is he going to find special clues and point it out to the trained law enforcement officers?

Add in that days later he says he has no idea what time (morning, noon or night) he saw TH the day before she disappeared as well as his accessing her voicemail and deleting messages and guessed her password but can't recall it at the moment. That is deceptive testimony.

One would think, at a bare minimum, he would have had the same video interrogation treatment as other major suspects, but barely anything. Why wouldn't they ask him what messages he deleted, why he did it, what was his alibi, etc.?

Calumet Country and Manitowoc County recognized that MCSD should not have been involved in the investigation due to the high probability of them tainting the crime scene (or perception), yet MCSD personnel make all the major discoveries.

And that is why the perception of this being a "wrong" investigation permeates today. They couldn't even follow the basic "rules" they knew may come back to haunt them years later. And when it does come back in this form, you can't just wipe it away with "SA is Guilty. Last Person to See Her with Bones on Property" Case closed. Move on. Nothing else to see...So says Kratz.
08-27-2016 , 03:22 AM
^^^ Great Post.

What has always been infuriating to me is the shills sticking to the base assumption that nobody moved past those initial thoughts that you stated - propaganda, etc. I believe it was very insulting to our intelligence as, yes, we all had those same concerns about this being one-sided, but as the doc. digs deeper, it seems obvious (only if just concerning Dassey) that something is very wrong here.
08-27-2016 , 03:47 AM
So basically Zellner makes a bunch of allegations and states them as fact without providing evidence to properly substantiate them (the same thing she's been doing for months in her tweets), but people are gobbling it up anyway (the same thing that's been happening for months here).

Good to see she's finally planning to test the evidence though.
08-27-2016 , 04:09 AM
what are your thoughts on the screenshot i posted regarding the RAV? typo?

it's not the best piece of evidence ever, obviously a document stating the vehicle was seized on the 3rd by officer xxx, and taken to yyy compound, and here are the photos of it timestamped, would be much much better. so with that said, sure, it could just be a typo. but when you combine it with the colborn phone call, it's pretty damning imo.
08-27-2016 , 04:11 AM
I am sure that log just existed as a way to remind coburn that a missing person existed in that kind of car.

He clearly wasn't good with his own notes and memory so maybe everything was just a scratch pad for him.
08-27-2016 , 04:12 AM
I'm sure it's a fake made by Zellner she's the devil remember?
08-27-2016 , 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
So basically Zellner makes a bunch of allegations and states them as fact without providing evidence to properly substantiate them (the same thing she's been doing for months in her tweets), but people are gobbling it up anyway (the same thing that's been happening for months here).

Good to see she's finally planning to test the evidence though.
How about that coerced confession that everyone "gobbled up?"

You know, people in this thread (who aren't here to push an agenda) who watched the film and were left with the very strong impression that the confession was coerced.

You know, they may have gobbled it up, but there was a lot to support such a conclusion. If you don't believe me, then there is at least one Federal judge that can help you out on that.

I am having a hard time recalling, but what was your position on the confession? I can't recall because it probably got lost in all the gobbling.
08-27-2016 , 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti Making a Murderer
what are your thoughts on the screenshot i posted regarding the RAV? typo?

it's not the best piece of evidence ever, obviously a document stating the vehicle was seized on the 3rd by officer xxx, and taken to yyy compound, and here are the photos of it timestamped, would be much much better. so with that said, sure, it could just be a typo. but when you combine it with the colborn phone call, it's pretty damning imo.
This log is nothing new and has been known about for months now.

3 scenarios I can think of:
  1. This is the standard way they enter in the evidence (e.g. Nov 3 is the date the Rav4 was reported missing, and after Nov 5, the code was updated to "evidence/seized").

  2. This is a typo and someone forgot to change the date when entering this in.

  3. Colborn found the Rav4 on Nov 3 and decided to officially report it despite using it in the greatest frame-job of all time.

1 and 2 seem way more likely to me. How about you?
08-27-2016 , 04:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman Making a Murderer
I am sure that log just existed as a way to remind coburn that a missing person existed in that kind of car.

He clearly wasn't good with his own notes and memory so maybe everything was just a scratch pad for him.
Are you being serious?

Did you see the document? It is a log of "seized evidence." That is not a memo about a call in ... it is a log of something taken into possession by the police. If you look at it, its says "Property" on the top.
08-27-2016 , 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti Making a Murderer
but when you combine it with the colborn phone call, it's pretty damning imo.
I mean edited footage (including splicing in an answer to a question he didn't actually answer) with damning music usually has that effect on people. Have you read the excerpt from the trial transcript? It's much less sinister.
08-27-2016 , 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
This log is nothing new and has been known about for months now.

3 scenarios I can think of:
  1. This is the standard way they enter in the evidence (e.g. Nov 3 is the date the Rav4 was reported missing, and after Nov 5, the code was updated to "evidence/seized").

  2. This is a typo and someone forgot to change the date when entering this in.

  3. Colborn found the Rav4 on Nov 3 and decided to officially report it despite using it in the greatest frame-job of all time.

1 and 2 seem way more likely to me. How about you?
lol. So, basically, under number 1, all of the evidence for the crime would be listed "November 3" no matter when it was found or taken into police custody.

Good one.

And under number 2, you are really reaching. Why would the date be changed. The point of the log is to chronicle the date the evidence was seized by the police. There would be nothing to change, because the first and only date would have been Nov. 5.

Or, are you imagining that when a crime is reported, that everyone sits down and makes a "punch list" of all the evidence they expect to find and make a slip with the date already on it - and then once the evidence is actually found, they "change" the date?

Are you goddamn insane?

So, 1 or 2 sounds likely to you? lol. At this point, you are better off copping to being a shill, because the only other option is "nitwit."
08-27-2016 , 04:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
I mean edited footage (including splicing in an answer to a question he didn't actually answer) with damning music usually has that effect on people. Have you read the excerpt from the trial transcript? It's much less sinister.
Yes. I am sure that when Yeti looked at the log and then connected it to Colburn's testimony, that his ability to think was crowded out by the "damning music" ... that ... he ... just ... can't get out of his head. Damn the documentary, it has turned us all into jellyfish!
08-27-2016 , 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
This log is nothing new and has been known about for months now.
Oh, I see. So, its been known about for months! Therefore, it can't mean anything.

After all, if you look through all the transcripts, nobody mentions it! So, it can't be important.
08-27-2016 , 07:16 AM
It wasn't a fact untill yesterday even what poorskillz consider as conspiracy theorist thought it was fishy but not as solid as when a lawyer can produce official original paperwork.

I cannot wait for test results we can have some surreal new stuff coming.
Hollywood can prepare a blockbuster for in a few years.

Now what crazy incredible theory will be proven true.

My favorite would be the remains not even beeing halbach and that they finally have no proof she is actually dead. Considering Zellner hammered the fact that still 29 teeth are missing would be cool and hilarious at the same time.
08-27-2016 , 07:36 AM
Zellner gonna be a conspiracy theorist's wet dream
08-27-2016 , 07:42 AM
Hard to talk about conspiracy theory when it's getting confirmed that the police planted the car on the property and that halbach cellphone was pinged 13 miles out of the property she wasn't supposed to have left.

But you can keep having faith
08-27-2016 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
How about that coerced confession that everyone "gobbled up?"

You know, people in this thread (who aren't here to push an agenda) who watched the film and were left with the very strong impression that the confession was coerced.

You know, they may have gobbled it up, but there was a lot to support such a conclusion. If you don't believe me, then there is at least one Federal judge that can help you out on that.

I am having a hard time recalling, but what was your position on the confession? I can't recall because it probably got lost in all the gobbling.
I thought, when I saw the documentary, that the confession was selected editing and anybody can take 12-16 hours of testimony and slant it anyway they want. Add in music, cuts, etc. I did end up watching all of the "confessions" and read the entire transcript and I came away entirely convinced that the investigators "planted" the entire narrative. BD said thousands of statements, but he was told "now you are being honest" whenever something matched that they wanted.

It was like flipping a coin thousands of times and only selecting heads as a result and discounting tails. And then presenting heads as the complete truth. The coin always ends up heads.
08-27-2016 , 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
Hard to talk about conspiracy theory when it's getting confirmed that the police planted the car on the property and that halbach cellphone was pinged 13 miles out of the property she wasn't supposed to have left.

But you can keep having faith
Conspiracy theory is the only people that are convinced that this was a proper investigation.

How did this case turn into a homicide case in 24 hours when there was not even a car or any real substantial evidence? The family is talking about the grieving process while there was a non-zero chance that she was still alive. She was dead and they knew it or law enforcement informed them she was dead.

Even during the initial search where the ex-boyfriend tells the search team something along the lines of "Don't touch anything" is incredibly odd. And the lack of law enforcement personnel searching for her when she may be alive and only converging on the property when she may be dead was sad.
08-27-2016 , 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
So basically kratz makes a bunch of allegations and states them as fact without providing evidence to properly substantiate them (the same thing he's been doing for months in his interviews ), but I am gobbling it up anyway (the same thing that's been happening for months here).

Good to see someone finally planning to test the evidence though.


I agree with you
08-27-2016 , 11:07 AM
skillz status: still poor
08-27-2016 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeotaJMU Making a Murderer
I agree with you
Well done.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder prosecutor leading the charge in the case.

Why is law enforcement in direct contact with an ex-boyfriend? He obviously wasn't the love of her life. He lied repeatedly about many simple facts. Yet it was SA and BD that are interrogated alone.

If SA is found not guilty and released (highly unlikely), they should restart those depositions from the first case.
08-27-2016 , 04:16 PM
[IMG] [/IMG]
08-27-2016 , 05:12 PM
'Independant Forensics Labratory- Illinois' set to test, using the RSID series (Rapid Stain Identification Series) the following items:

DNA testing on evidence not previously tested:
The bar that moves the drivers seat
The hood prop bar
The battery Cable
The internal hood release
The blinker light
The lug Wrench
*The Purple Thong Underwear Found near licence plates- were they TH?)

New & Improved Dna Testing on (some previously tested also):
Licence Plates
Swabs from Victims Car
The key
battery cable and clamps
blinker light
lug wrench
Bullet
Swabs: Exterior & interior door handles, left & right battery cable including rsid saliva and other three body fluids testing
Bones, including alleged pelvic bone found at quarry
Burnt material found at Radandt deer hunting camp

All blood evidence gathered, ALL stains previously tested - to include radiocarbon-14 dating
Other labs to test
Microscopic Trace Testing (Analysis of microscopic evidence- including tracing dust & soil back to their origins)
The Key
SA 2005 buccal swabs
Ballistics
.22 Shell recovered from garage
unspent .22 R shells from SA trailer
Fingerprints
A repeat comparison by an independent lab to Lenk & Colborn's fingerprints to those found in the RAV4 and not identified
A request for the motorola razr taken from the residence on Nov 3rd for testing (or existence)

* The purple underwear is an important discovery as it may relates to an item taken from T.H. home.
The motorola razr phone is a major piece of evidence if the phone is not in evidence along with the date of the Rav4 dscovery(3rd November 2005)

List of evidence that K.Z. believe's was planted
1. Key
2. Bullet
3. Bones
4. Rav4
5. Blood in Rav4
6. Motorola Razr Cell phone
7. Purple Underwear.Not used in trial?
8. Licence plates
9. Fibers from buccal swabs(Q-TIP) HOPEFULLY.
10. L.E. or others prints (did U use gloves guys?). lOl

And lets not forget that K.Z. has R.H cell phone records with 22 phone calls received on the 4th Nov 2005 & the deleted Voicemail's which 1st occured on the 2nd Nov 2005 before T.H. was reported missing.
Poor Ryan, Andy & Jim gonna take a fall for the bosses, AND the A.G. of WI is going to get input of the Halbach's when Mike Halbach interjected himself into that infamous T.V. interview to help R.H. FOCUS on dated & times, WOWSERSSSS..What a county.
God knows how mike feels now I think your mother needs a word or two, be truthful this time mike.
08-27-2016 , 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
Hard to talk about conspiracy theory when it's getting confirmed that the police planted the car on the property and that Halbach cellphone was pinged 13 miles out of the property she wasn't supposed to have left.

But you can keep having faith
Looks like Zellner may turn out to be the Coincidence Theorists' nightmare.

      
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