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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

04-12-2016 , 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerPush Making a Murderer
You're not very intelligent if serious
+1
04-12-2016 , 06:57 PM
A great series of 4 long posts by super_pickle on why Steven is guilty.
04-12-2016 , 07:49 PM
Lol, this is the guy you are all defending, and who SMACC is waiting with baited breath to see Zellner get released. A violent, woman-hating sociopath.

But he seemed so warm and cuddly in that not-at-all biased television series! It's almost as if the entire show was constructed and edited in such a way as to try and make people think he was innocent!
04-12-2016 , 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
A great series of 4 long posts by super_pickle on why Steven is guilty.
Excellent posts. That guy makes a ton of sense and pretty much sums up my own thinking more eloquently than I can.
04-12-2016 , 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
A great series of 4 long posts by super_pickle on why Steven is guilty.
None of which has anything to do with the issues people have with these cases and the flawed criminal justice system. He just vomitted a bunch of stuff the overwhelming majority of which is not allowed as evidence.

It is amazing you guys still don't understand the issues with the criminal justice system these cases shine a light on. Please just continue to ignore how the criminal justice system is supposed to work.
04-12-2016 , 08:12 PM
Let's see, investigate a crime, collect evidence, name a suspect, have a trial, present the evidence... that's pretty much how it's supposed to work.

This TV show managed to convince almost everyone, with zero factual basis, that Avery was framed, mainly as revenge for a lawsuit. The show, like the defense attorneys, just threw that theory out there, and (unlike with the jury) it stuck.
04-12-2016 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Lol, this is the guy you are all defending, and who SMACC is waiting with baited breath to see Zellner get released. A violent, woman-hating sociopath.

But he seemed so warm and cuddly in that not-at-all biased television series! It's almost as if the entire show was constructed and edited in such a way as to try and make people think he was innocent!

"In terms of assessing your danger to society, the evidence forces me to conclude that you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom."

Remember when people cried "corruption" because the judge said this? LMAO
04-12-2016 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Lol, this is the guy you are all defending, and who SMACC is waiting with baited breath to see Zellner get released. A violent, woman-hating sociopath.

But he seemed so warm and cuddly in that not-at-all biased television series! It's almost as if the entire show was constructed and edited in such a way as to try and make people think he was innocent!
As marksman said above you sir are clueless to the fact that a small town sheriff's dept was incapable of running a rape case never mind a murder, most of what Poorskillz & co was speculation/heresay & from unreliable witnesss i.e prisoners lOl. And thats about all he & Fraley has had to say about this case, you know what's funny is that when they both started talking about the REVELATIONS that OMG!! look we have proof that SA is a sexual predator a few weeks ago I knew more B.S. was gonna be written up in the reports by CASO as there was also talk about it on reddit at least we know that Fraley & co read it.
But the way they have been posting the last few weeks just confirms imo that poorskillz has more access to info that he's letting on to.

But hey if its proven then by all means charge the man & make sure he gets the max cos if these allegations are proven in a Court of Law then he deserves it, and I would hope that you & The mantiowoc 2 would also pursue a Special Prosecutor for similar crimes(Rape is Rape).

You know apart from the actual murder the worst thing I have heard in all this was that a Rape allegation did not make it to court because the VICTIM(s) had a criminal record.

A far as I know SA is not an DRUG ADDICT, at least he got that going for him. Oh and he was ****ing Jodi 5 times a day & watching porn!
04-12-2016 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
That's just one of many of Steven's horrible acts listed in the new report.

Pretty much every family member interviewed said they thought Steven was capable of the murder.

But everyone was scared of Steven, and rightfully so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Lol, this is the guy you are all defending , and who SMACC is waiting with baited breath to see Zellner get released. A violent, woman-hating sociopath.

But he seemed so warm and cuddly in that not-at-all biased television series! It's almost as if the entire show was constructed and edited in such a way as to try and make people think he was innocent!
jfc. I don't want to get banned but jfc. Everyone that has posted itt (maybe even smacc) thinks he is capable of the murder. Noone (except smacc) is defending Avery as a person. HOly ****ing **** I can't believe this doesn't sink in.

INB4: Something something jury decided, it's all good.
04-12-2016 , 11:49 PM
Lostinthesaus, who thankfully, has been gone ftt for awhile, has defended Avery on many occasions. His character. lololol
04-13-2016 , 12:18 AM
I am definitely more on the guilty side after what I read today, I am looking forward to what Zellner will present.
04-13-2016 , 12:25 AM
Welcome to the light 👍
04-13-2016 , 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerPush Making a Murderer
Lostinthesaus, who thankfully, has been gone ftt for awhile, has defended Avery on many occasions. His character. lololol
I will say that Avery has appeared to be more forthright than most humans. I don't know if that make him good or bad.

Hard to reconcile that he would waive his Miranda rights and freely admit that he ran his cousin off the road and aimed a gun at her in the hopes that it would stop her from spreading rumors about him.

He also could have been released from jail years earlier if he admitted to guilt regarding the 1985 crime. He adamantly refused.

He was crazy enough to go back and live in the same town and interact with all the same people. And then sue them and show up at the depositions and face them directly.

He dressed however he liked. He didn't care if a landmark legal bill carried his own name.

He hugged the person that put him in jail for many years and forgave her. She is the only person that apologized to him.

He immediately agreed to allow his house to be searched, granted tv interviews and again spoke to the police without requesting a lawyer.

Interesting character study and it doesn't mean he is innocent or guilty, likable or not likable. Just highly unusual behavior all around.
04-13-2016 , 12:55 AM
well i always thought he was more likely to be guilty anyway, but I would definitely have voted not guilty based on doubt

I would say today I would probably vote guilty but I still have some doubts, just not enough doubt
04-13-2016 , 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeotaJMU Making a Murderer
I am definitely more on the guilty side after what I read today, I am looking forward to what Zellner will present.
Interesting. I actually for some reason feel the same. But it also is very apparent that this investigation was handled inappropriately as well as the confession that was used against SA and of course BD.

So, if he is believed to be 100% guilty and the investigation and trial and BD are believed to be 100% handled "wrong", what should "society" do?

It seems like the only outcome is SA jailed and some public shaming. Hopefully it serves as some type of warning to conduct investigations properly, not extract confessions in a hostile manner that creates incredible doubt, ensure that defense attorneys always act in the best interest of their clients, and not use the media as a tool to win a case.

I hate the message of, "never talk to the police". That can't be good for society. We need to trust that our police are here to protect and serve. Not that anything and everything will be used against you in a court of law.
04-13-2016 , 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by prana Making a Murderer
jfc. I don't want to get banned but jfc. Everyone that has posted itt (maybe even smacc) thinks he is capable of the murder. Noone (except smacc) is defending Avery as a person. HOly ****ing **** I can't believe this doesn't sink in.

INB4: Something something jury decided, it's all good.
Sorry but no. The recurring theme in this thread all along has been that SA was framed by the police, and that someone else killed TH. Yet we still get the disingenuous argument that everyone is just worried about the process - they don't necessarily think he is innocent. Yet the majority of posts itt are about Colburn/Lenk framing Avery, or what evidence was planted, or who the actual murderer was.

I never said anyone was arguing he's a great guy. But they ARE arguing that he's innocent of this crime. Not "not proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". Innocent. When every piece of evidence, and every single thing we know about SA, shows him to be an evil human being and a murderer.

Just seems like a weird case, and a weird defendant, to go to bat for. And no one would, if not for the propaganda piece we all watched.
04-13-2016 , 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeotaJMU Making a Murderer
I am definitely more on the guilty side after what I read today, I am looking forward to what Zellner will present.
What did you read today?
04-13-2016 , 01:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeotaJMU Making a Murderer
I am definitely more on the guilty side after what I read today, I am looking forward to what Zellner will present.
We've reached a breakthrough!


Regarding Zellner, if her plan rests on the cell tower records, then she's almost certainly going to fail. From the CASO report:

Quote:
At 1800 hrs., I was advised by Cpl. LEMIEUX that she had determined that TERESA HALBACH's cellular number may have been "ported" to CINGULAR WIRELESS. I did contact CINGULAR at 866-246-4852. I was advised that they do currently provide cellular service for TERESA HALBACH at the phone number listed. I questioned the representative I spoke with as to whether we could get the phone number "pinged" and the representative advised that this could possibly be done by contacting CINGULAR WIRELESS legal department at 800-635-6840.

I contacted the phone number provided and was advised that CINGULAR does not have the technology to "ping" a phone.

I was told that the only way we could possibly determine the location of Ms. HALBACH's cellular phone would be if she were placing an outgoing phone call or receiving an incoming phone call and that would allow CINGULAR's technology to locate the tower she was calling from.

The fact is there was an extensive investigation (over 1,000 pages in Calumet County Sheriff Dept's report), and everything pointed to Steven.
04-13-2016 , 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
What did you read today?
All of the new documents about the investigation got released today... And while I want gonna comb through 1000 pages I spent a few hours on reddit reading the highlights from both ends of the spectrum.
04-13-2016 , 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
And no one would, if not for the propaganda piece we all watched.
On that note, I think this reddit post discusses an important issue.


Jodi spoke out recently in a Nancy Grace interview about Steven being a monster and abusing her, and received a bunch of personal attacks from thousands of crazy show viewers as a result.

All the filmmakers Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos had to say when questioned about Jodi's interview was this:

"I can’t say why Jodi is saying what she is in the media today... We have no idea what's behind Jodi's recent statements...The filming we did w/ her 9 years ago accurately captured her views and state of mind at the time..."


Now, Steven's abuse of Jodi was well corroborated by around a dozen people in the newly released reports, including by Jodi in several interviews, but at least we can pretend the filmmakers were just really lazy researchers for a case they spent ten years working on.

However, what's also included in the report is a transcription of an interview with Wiegert and Jodi, footage of which the filmmakers edit and show in MaM. In that interview Jodi talks about Steven's abusive nature, including the time he choked her until she passed out (it's obviously not included in the show).

Thus the filmmakers were well aware of Steven's abuse of Jodi!

So why play dumb?


Let's look at what else Jodi said:

Quote:
I asked Laurie and Moira not to even use anything with me in it ... Because I told her it was all lies. I told her, she called me, and asked me if I wanted to do another interview before the documentary came out, and I told her no. And that's when I asked her, I want nothing to do with it, and I don't want any part of it, and I don't want to be in it. I said "it's all lies," because Steven called me and told me ― it should be all on police phone records ― that if I didn't say anything good and nice about him, I'd pay.
Of course, Laura and Moira claim this never happened as well.
04-13-2016 , 09:18 AM
Wrt the Key,Page 230
The RAV4 was shipped from the Avery's to the crime lab at 1-2AM on the 6th. Keep in mind it was found on the 5th. And that is not a day later, its a couple hours after midnight. The photographer gets to the crime lab "Mid morning" Problem is that he found the RAV4 unlocked, and no one was established as having opened it. So somehow they got a key made in the time between?
Im going over the day posted, this was november 11th. This doesn't explain how they initially got in the car...
Reading it over again, and the part highlighted in the title:
Also given to me by MEIER was a key the WI STATE CRIME LAB had made in order to enter the Toyota RAV4 vehicle as the original vehicle key had not been located at the time they had received the vehicle.
I presume they are saying they have the key cutting equipment at the crime lab? But who made the key?

From reddit.
04-13-2016 , 09:22 AM
Moore to the story...

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story.html
I thought Kratz was enjoying the descriptions of an alleged sexual crime a little too much. If you think about it, there’s now more demonstrative, proven evidence of sexual deviance by Ken Kratz than there is of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey – combined. (A date to an autopsy? No wonder he looked a little sweaty describing the fictitious version of the murder of Halbach.) If Kratz’ ability to keep his disgusting behavior (sexting the victim of domestic abuse???) a secret for a year with the help of the Wisconsin DOJ isn’t proof of a corrupt system, what is? Why didn’t Governor Foley prosecute Kratz? Kratz complains that his reputation would take a hit just because of an accusation? Really? Sucks, huh? Kratz laments that he’s forgotten. As long as I’m alive, he won’t be.
04-13-2016 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
On that note, I think this reddit post discusses an important issue.


Jodi spoke out recently in a Nancy Grace interview about Steven being a monster and abusing her, and received a bunch of personal attacks from thousands of crazy show viewers as a result.

All the filmmakers Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos had to say when questioned about Jodi's interview was this:

"I canít say why Jodi is saying what she is in the media today... We have no idea what's behind Jodi's recent statements...The filming we did w/ her 9 years ago accurately captured her views and state of mind at the time..."


Now, Steven's abuse of Jodi was well corroborated by around a dozen people in the newly released reports, including by Jodi in several interviews, but at least we can pretend the filmmakers were just really lazy researchers for a case they spent ten years working on.

However, what's also included in the report is a transcription of an interview with Wiegert and Jodi, footage of which the filmmakers edit and show in MaM. In that interview Jodi talks about Steven's abusive nature, including the time he choked her until she passed out (it's obviously not included in the show).

Thus the filmmakers were well aware of Steven's abuse of Jodi!

So why play dumb?


Let's look at what else Jodi said:



Of course, Laura and Moira claim this never happened as well.
It's interesting. Even itt, when her comments about being beaten and being deathy afraid of Steven were originally discussed, she was dismissed as an alcoholic who was not believable.

I can't imagine another scenario where a bunch of liberal-minded people would just disregard a batter woman's word like that. Goes to show how much this show messed with people's thinking.
04-13-2016 , 10:17 AM
Wasnt there someone who even said something like "real victims". I think it was smacc but he spits so much stupidty hard to be sure.
04-13-2016 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
What did you read today?

What does it matter to you? You aren't going to read anything or do any of your own research. You watched the documentary and made up your pea-sized mind because of it.

      
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