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Old 12-23-2015, 08:19 PM   #51
DC11GTR
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Re: Making a Murderer

A crazy thing to consider was that if this was all written in a movie or TV show, everyone would think it was WAY too convoluted and that there is no way it would ever happen in real life.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:11 PM   #52
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Re: Making a Murderer

Spoiler:


Here's an interview with Avery's attorneys conducted in 2007 that I found interesting.

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/ne...iked/77708026/
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:40 PM   #53
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Re: Making a Murderer

Spoiler:
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:43 PM   #54
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by 50yearoldnit View Post
Len Kachinsky must be the worst ****ing lawyer ever.
There is zero doubt in my mind he just enjoyed the attention of the case. He cracked that stupid ****ing smile everytime he talked about the press or the phone calls he was getting.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:44 PM   #55
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Re: Making a Murderer

Also there were two very cute news reporters asking questions. demglasses/10
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:44 PM   #56
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Re: Making a Murderer

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There is zero doubt in my mind he just enjoyed the attention of the case. He cracked that stupid ****ing smile everytime he talked about the press or the phone calls he was getting.
He was enjoying the attention, thought the case could advance his career, never for a second stopped to consider or care that his client might actually be innocent. Tonnes of poor people in jail simply because they couldn't afford a good lawyer.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:45 PM   #57
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Re: Making a Murderer

Re: Len

Spoiler:
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:25 AM   #58
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Re: Making a Murderer

Request from Kratz.

Probably a small spoiler.
Spoiler:


One time NetFlix!
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:33 AM   #59
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Re: Making a Murderer

Spoiler:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacutainer
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:34 AM   #60
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Re: Making a Murderer

Dassey Confessions – Recordings and Transcripts
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:36 AM   #61
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Re: Making a Murderer

All,

I'm convinced.....

TTYL, after my lockdown.
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:47 AM   #62
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
all of the videos were in youtube 3-4 days ago, don't have too much time or energy to find them again, but r/makingamurderer should have them at front page
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:48 AM   #63
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Re: Making a Murderer

Regarding the jurors :

Spoiler:
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:05 AM   #64
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Re: Making a Murderer

ughhhhh, went to the subreddit and it reminded me of this part:

Spoiler:
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:36 AM   #65
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Re: Making a Murderer

Is there a date to set before we stop using spoiler tags? 1st of the year? and just make a warning in the OP that spoilers begin post xxx
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:41 AM   #66
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Re: Making a Murderer

I watched the whole series in less than 24 hours and while disgusting as a current criminal defense attorney I found a lot of the behavior by the police, prosecutors and ultimately the verdicts in a small town in Wisconsin to be unsurprising. The judges also seemed especially terrible although the documentary probably shaded them all in as negative a light as possible.

I interned at a prosecutor's office while in law school and people openly joked about all the defendants being guilty all the time. Ken Kratz is like the far extreme of this mentality but I think it pervades almost every prosecutor's office I have encountered since I have been doing criminal defense the last few years. There are very few prosecutors who look at a case objectively and the vast majority of them have already decided on guilt the moment they read the charge sheet and sign their name on the bottom to officially charge someone with a crime.

Frankly I would be embarrased to present cases with as many holes in them as the ones against SA and BD. At times watching the movie I felt like Ken Kratz probably was embarrased with how it played out start to finish as well. But it was obvious he didn't have a shred of morality to him as is later clearly shown with his drug abuse (almost certainly while sending drug offenders to prison) and sexually harrassing victims in the cases he was prosecuting.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:00 AM   #67
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Re: Making a Murderer

haven't seen mention of the "hidden" rav4. what a joke that was...a few branches laid against it as if that made it harder to find.

Quote:
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Spoiler:
what the ****?
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:32 AM   #68
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by younguns87 View Post
Is there a date to set before we stop using spoiler tags? 1st of the year? and just make a warning in the OP that spoilers begin post xxx
Spoiler:
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:35 AM   #69
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Re: Making a Murderer

I'm guessing anyone who has started to watch this finished it in less then 48hours, but yeah there should be a spoiler date. 1st of the year sounds good.

I'm really hoping others get deeply involved and post updates and whatnot since I probably won't
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:04 AM   #70
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Re: Making a Murderer

Obama s term is coming to an end , I think his best bet is a presidents pardon

As for the series I think he's innocent . The judges seem so biased its sick , the len lychinsky lawyer should be disbarred
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Old 12-24-2015, 10:16 AM   #71
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Re: Making a Murderer

Spoiler:
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:49 PM   #72
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by CHRONICFEVER View Post
Obama s term is coming to an end , I think his best bet is a presidents pardon

As for the series I think he's innocent . The judges seem so biased its sick , the len lychinsky lawyer should be disbarred
He should clearly be disbarred or at the bare minimum heavily punished by the bar association. Shockingly he is still practing away in the field of criminal defense.

http://sissonlaw.com/attorneys/len-kachinsky/

Then again Kratz was engaged in some truly heinous ethical violations after the Avery case and he is still practicing as well.

http://www.kratzlawfirm.com/
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Old 12-24-2015, 02:22 PM   #73
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Re: Making a Murderer

Quote:
Originally Posted by WichitaDM View Post
He should clearly be disbarred or at the bare minimum heavily punished by the bar association. Shockingly he is still practing away in the field of criminal defense.

http://sissonlaw.com/attorneys/len-kachinsky/

Then again Kratz was engaged in some truly heinous ethical violations after the Avery case and he is still practicing as well.

http://www.kratzlawfirm.com/

As a civil case attorney , what do you think his best chance is going forward . Seems like it would take a presidents pardon to get Steven and Brandon out
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:20 PM   #74
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by Karak View Post
Spoiler:
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:33 PM   #75
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Re: Making a Murderer

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Originally Posted by CHRONICFEVER View Post
As a civil case attorney , what do you think his best chance is going forward . Seems like it would take a presidents pardon to get Steven and Brandon out
Disclaimer: I don't do any appeals work and probably know just barely more than the typical layman. My understanding is that their state appeals are essentially done barring some new evidence being uncovered. That leaves federal options which essentially our outlined at the very end of the documentary. President Obama could pardon them and there is a change.org petition you can already go sign to get his attention.

My honest take on the case is that they may have been guilty (Although I think it very very unlikely Brendan was guilty). However there is a very high probability that there was a lot of wrongdoing by the police/prosectuors. Lenk is clearly a scumbag and the fact that essentially all of the key evidence was found by him means at a bare minimum there is reasonable doubt as to the probative value of that evidence and Stevens guilt.

In no particular order I think there are a whole host of things (there are so many I am sure I will forget some in this list) that raise reasonable doubt in the cases either at the time or in retrospect.

1)Why leave a car right next to the crusher with your blood in it when you have a perfectly good crusher.
2)Why meticulously clean the trailer/garage but not clean the car you allegedly transported her in
3)Why leave the burned bones in clear view right next to your house.
4)How is none of Brendan's DNA anywhere in the crime scene.
5)How does Manitoc County find all the evidence when they were explicity told by the "authorities" to step aside.
6)What about the deleted voicemails.
7)Why were none of the people who were also possible suspects including the other Darrey bro, Brenden's stepdad, the brother, the ex-bf, the roommate never investigated.
8)Why were there two conflicting theories of what happened used to convict them both if they actually had an airtight case.
9)The convenience of this case ending the SA lawsuit and saving the county.
10)The tampered with blood from the previous case.
11)The key magically appearing after many many searches.
12)How does a 7-3-2 notguilty/guilty/unsure turn into a unanimous decision. That from my understanding almost never happens.
13)The horrific way that Brenden's investigation was handled from both the original defense attorney, and the investigators.
14)There was no motive.
15)Colburn knowing the make and model of the car before she was reported missing.
16)The phone records of Brenden and Steve.
17)The bias of the judges.
18)Blood in the car but no fingerprints.
19)The people closest to her did not report her missing for 4 days. If my roommate doesn't show up for like a day or two and doesn't answer phone/text I probably don't wait 4 days to do anything.
20)All of the lying and inconsistencies on the stand by Lenk and Colburn.
21)The fact the Manitoc Co. inbreds who obviously don't like the Averys got to be the jury
22)The fact two people on the jury had direct relations to the Manitoc Co. sheriff's department.

That being said it is obvious SA was no saint and its certainly possible he did it. I just don't think the prosecutions "case" was anywhere close to passing the reasonable doubt standard. Brenden's case is much more egrigious as I think the odds of him doing it or having anything to do with it being less than 5%. He is very clearly close to being mentally retarded, was scared and completely susceptible to the people around him influencing him. Telling him that he would be fine if he said what they wanted to was what made him say it, not because it was the truth.
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