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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

03-15-2016 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman Making a Murderer
This is the unfortunate case in a huge number of criminal convictions. You are essentially given no choice.

Not sure why anyone not making a living on the backs of this system would be okay with it.
His problem was not with the system. The problem is with a woman who (if we assume his version is the truth) falsely accused him of a crime.

A woman claims she was sexually assaulted. As someone with a clean record, defendant is offered a plea deal. He chooses to take it. How exactly are the prosecutors at fault here?
03-16-2016 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Yes I know all this. You are missing the point. The only reason we know he did these things is because the evidence is corroborated by his confession. If all we had was the evidence and no admit of his guilt, the evidence wouldn't be as strong. That is all I am saying.

As for BD, I already laid out the two big things corroborated by this confession. But I doubt you read them. I will say them again.

1) he said him and avery cleaned up a large 2x2 area of blood using bleach and paint thinner in the garage. He told police where in the garage this area was cleaned. The police located this are in march, a large 3x3 area that had been spot cleaned with bleach and paint thinner, his jeans were also covered in bleach.

2) he told police where she was shot and what gun was used. Both of these are also corroborated with evidence. There is a bullet with TH dna on it that is tied to avery's gun (the gun BD said was used) located in the same area where BD said she was shot.

He was not convicted just because he confessed. He was convicted because of this evidence.. Imo. The same can be said about gacy, but without the confession it is likely neither of these men would have been convicted of anything and master is suggesting confessions shouldn't be used in court.
Afaik they know bleach was used in the garage but not paint thinner.

Again you ignore the lack of any other evidence she was shot in the garage, and the many many issues with the bullet.

BD was led to say nearly everything that you claim is corroboration. If he happened to get something right in the first guess, the detectives didn't have to do their whole "now tell the truth" game.

And I almost forgot about this. You keep claiming that SA pointed a loaded gun and but an unloaded one like he claims as if it's fact. You are concluding this based on his gun being found in a loaded condition later. It's incredibly dishonest to try and say that because a gun is loaded now, you know it was loaded at some prior time.
03-16-2016 , 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Also, as a side note that is partially related. BD also initially confessed to a friend. his cousin.
Allegedly confessed to his cousin. Yet again with the intellectual dishonesty.

She has also recanted. Yet another big difference.
03-16-2016 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The important details are hard to over look.

1) he said him and SA cleaned up a 2x2 area of blood after she was killed. He said they used bleach and paint thinner to clean up the mess. In the garage there was a 3x3 area cleaned up with paint thinner and bleach, BD's jeans he wore that day were also covered in bleach.
There is no way bleach and paint thinner can be used to clean up such a 'mess'. Shooting someone 11 times and violently assaulting them would leave evidence in every nook and cranny of the trailer. There would be blood and body parts on books, magazines, clothes, lights, wall, chairs, and anything you can imagine.

The junkyard was a mess, the trailer was a mess, and these people are all a mess. The only way to get rid of the evidence would be to literally burn the trailer. He freely invited the police to inspect.

We are also supposed to believe that Avery committed a violent crime with his nephew and went away on vacation knowing that he was the last person to be alive with her. If he did kill her, he knew he would be a suspect. Is he dumb enough to think he will get around to crushing her car when he returns knowing that it is covered by only twigs? But that he is smart enough to get rid of microscopic evidence in his trailer in a matter of hours?

I have not heard a reasonable explanation of how this could be pulled off. It doesn't mean he is innocent. I think though there should be some reasonable burden on the state to show and support a theory of how the crime took place. And be consistent in both trials. And also not use the 'best of' a four-hour confession from a challenged 16-year old as any sort of proof.

Personally, I think Kratz jumped the gun (good word) with the press conference and was boxed into presenting that line of thinking. I also think Avery's attorneys were took quick with the law enforcement planting scenario which took away from other more plausible (perhaps) scenarios.
03-16-2016 , 03:16 AM
I thought Brendan openly admitted to cleaning something that night in Steven's garage. People keep saying that the lack of Brendan's DNA in garage leads them to believe he didn't partake in any criminal act that may have taken place in the garage but Brendan admitted to helping Steven clean something up and joining him for the bonfire that night. So if he puts himself in the garage with Steven why are we to believe he wasn't there? I thought even Brendan's Mom assumed he had been in the garage helping Steven clean up something that night. Doesn't Steven himself even admit to cleaning up in the garage that night either in an interview or phone conversation with Jodi?

Am I missing something here? Did they recant those statements at a later date? I thought that was part of their alibi.
03-16-2016 , 03:31 AM
They might have but it wasn't a body.

As Golf said, there's no way two not bright people supposedly shoot a mutilated, cut up, bleeding out body in a garage that has tons of junk in it and there is ABSOLUTELY NO DNA/ BLOOD STAINS FOUND IN ANYTHING IN THE GARAGE.
03-16-2016 , 03:41 AM
They cleaned fingerprints and other DNA traces but couldnt clean the obvious blood stain, that makes sense and is not suspicious at all.
03-16-2016 , 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
They cleaned fingerprints and other DNA traces but couldnt clean the obvious blood stain, that makes sense and is not suspicious at all.

I believe it's called selective dexterism. Very serious disease, I hear it is rampant in Wisconsin.
03-16-2016 , 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenPoke Making a Murderer
I believe it's called selective dexterism. Very serious disease, I hear it is rampant in Wisconsin.
Al capone got ****ed by Irs. We have a chance that Ken kratz get caught for his bloody massacre of dexter late seasons as a ghostwriter.
Whrongfull convictions are no big deal compared to his terrible story writing.
03-16-2016 , 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
They cleaned fingerprints and other DNA traces but couldnt clean the obvious blood stain, that makes sense and is not suspicious at all.
There was no trace of any blood stain. Only traces of areas which lit up which had more than likely been cleaned by someone with the paint thinner and/or bleach. My point was more so that both Brendan and Steven admitted to cleaning in the garage. They also admitted to having a bonfire.

Now all the conspiracy theory activists are arguing that maybe these events didn't even occur. Whether or not a crime was committed in these various locations is a totally separate question but are we going to disregard the part of their alibis which say this is what they were doing on that night just because there is no DNA trace of them present in those areas?

edit: I'm assuming Steven's DNA was found in his garage.
03-16-2016 , 06:41 AM
We are talking about the car with the stupid bloodstain near ignition
03-16-2016 , 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
His problem was not with the system. The problem is with a woman who (if we assume his version is the truth) falsely accused him of a crime.

A woman claims she was sexually assaulted. As someone with a clean record, defendant is offered a plea deal. He chooses to take it. How exactly are the prosecutors at fault here?
I don't even know how to respond to this.....
03-16-2016 , 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5 Making a Murderer
Allegedly confessed to his cousin. Yet again with the intellectual dishonesty.

She has also recanted. Yet another big difference.
Yep she recanted on the stand. Pretty obvious attempt to backtrack in order to save her cousin. Jury didn't buy it, thankfully.

Lol at a clearly-upset kid going to her counselor out of worry for her cousin, and then explaining it away as "ah you know these kids, they just like to make **** up sometimes".
03-16-2016 , 09:09 AM
Have you ever had kids?

Kids DO just like to make **** up sometimes.
03-16-2016 , 09:18 AM
Record number of exonerations in 2015. There were only 5000 "or so" the last 100 years. It's all good.
03-16-2016 , 10:52 AM
I cannot imagine a world where my kid would go to his guidance counselor crying to tell him his cousin had confessed to raping someone. All for attention, also some how many parts of what my son told the counselor matches what his cousin told police. Apparently, not only is this girl lying because she wants attention she can also see into BD's mind.
03-16-2016 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichGangi Making a Murderer
I don't even know how to respond to this.....
Just laugh.
03-16-2016 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneuy3 Making a Murderer
I thought Brendan openly admitted to cleaning something that night in Steven's garage. People keep saying that the lack of Brendan's DNA in garage leads them to believe he didn't partake in any criminal act that may have taken place in the garage but Brendan admitted to helping Steven clean something up and joining him for the bonfire that night. So if he puts himself in the garage with Steven why are we to believe he wasn't there? I thought even Brendan's Mom assumed he had been in the garage helping Steven clean up something that night. Doesn't Steven himself even admit to cleaning up in the garage that night either in an interview or phone conversation with Jodi?

Am I missing something here? Did they recant those statements at a later date? I thought that was part of their alibi.
Avery admitted to being in his own garage?

To be fair Dassey said all kinds of things that were not true. Not sure why anything said in that environment should be considered reality.
03-16-2016 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
His problem was not with the system. The problem is with a woman who (if we assume his version is the truth) falsely accused him of a crime.

A woman claims she was sexually assaulted. As someone with a clean record, defendant is offered a plea deal. He chooses to take it. How exactly are the prosecutors at fault here?
It's the system's responsibility to pursue guilty people and not incarcerate innocent people. It's also not their job to get people convicted regardless of evidence or facts. People lie about stuff. That is not a reason for mindlessly pursuing a plea deal just to get a conviction to keep their percentages high.

It is entirely their responsibility. This is what they are there for. It seems you think their job is just to get convictions regardless.
03-16-2016 , 11:17 AM
You guys watch too much tv. You do not leave dna every where you go. Also, it was a .22 caliber rifle. There would not be body parts everywhere lol.

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is important here. You cannot ignore the evidence that is there in request more. That isn't how this works nor is it how it should work.

BD, says he helped SA clean the garage after killing TH. The garage was clearly cleaned, what in that garage would BD and SA need to clean? Why with bleach? It was a messy garage, why were they so concerned about cleaning that one area?

A couple other things that some here may not know. In november, BD initially Denied any bonfire ever took place, this was part of his narrative and he was not asked if a bonfire had taken place. He had just said they planned on having a bonfire but had to cancel. Initially he claimed to have not even spoke to SA that day.

Initially he claimed to not have seen TH that day. (he later changed this in the same interview and said he saw her on his porch then saw her drive away)

all three of those things are no longer part of his "innocent story"

This is important, he has been lying the whole time. There are likely inconsistencies in his story because the kid was scared and didn't understand what would get him in the most trouble. One thing I feel confident saying is that he did assist in killing TH. The evidence matches the important details.


As for the bullet being shady, you guys do realize that it is the defenses job to make all the evidence look that way right? I do not see any issues with the bullet. The bullet was found in the garage after BD confessed. They had not performed an in depth search of the garage until after this confession. This was a giant 40 acre property. They didn't no where to look aside from SA's trailer. Furthermore, the bullet wasn't required to convict him really. They already have enough evidence, the blood and bones would have been enough.
03-16-2016 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman Making a Murderer
Avery admitted to being in his own garage?

To be fair Dassey said all kinds of things that were not true. Not sure why anything said in that environment should be considered reality.
Yes, guilty people usually lie. Why did he keep changing his story?
03-16-2016 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
This was a giant 40 acre property. They didn't no where to look aside from SA's trailer.
Right, but

03-16-2016 , 11:57 AM
If you look at where she entered, it is perfectly reasonable she would have found the car that fast.
03-16-2016 , 12:00 PM
Also, searching the area for cars, is not the same thing as looking for a bullet or dna. Idk if you know this but dna and bullets happen to be smaller than SUV's.
03-16-2016 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
If you look at where she entered, it is perfectly reasonable she would have found the car that fast.
Right, she just happened to enter that way. Oh, I forgot....


Sorry, I just don't buy it. It's cool that you do.

      
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