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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

02-21-2016 , 07:39 PM
She's almost as good as Trump at drumming up lots of publicity while saying nothing of substance.
02-21-2016 , 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
Ladies & Gentlemen may I present Groundhog Day & when you encounter Groundhog day always remember to .
02-21-2016 , 07:58 PM





"Zellner made it quite clear that not only did she intend to prove that Steve Avery is innocent along with Brendan Dassey of the murder of Teresa Halbach, she also intends to prove it so thoroughly that there will be absolutely no doubt of both of their innocence. She says that it is clear that Mr. Avery was set up and that the people who set him up did a very poor job of it..."
02-21-2016 , 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
She's almost as good as Trump at drumming up lots of publicity while saying nothing of substance.
The Donald Say's....




Or he's Gonna send....
Spoiler:


02-21-2016 , 08:24 PM
http://poststar.com/news/state-and-r...ea9c83a0f.html

On a more serious note.

Sherry Culhane issues report of DNA findings, states the charred specimen was “consistent” with Teresa Halbach’s DNA. It was not a conclusive match, but the state represented it as though it was certain. It seems iffy since it was a partial match. Hopefully DNA experts will be reviewing the reports.

Forensic Anthropologist, Dr. Scott Fairgrieve testified for the defense. He was so disturbed at the way the evidence was mishandled that he believes a mistrial was warranted.

Ultimately, Fairgrieve said in his professional opinion, one could not conclude with perfect certainty that the remains had not been moved.

“As a forensic scientist, I’d say you’re right to question this,” he said of the defense team’s assertion.

“I think there should’ve been a mistrial, myself,” said Fairgrieve.

The state called in all of the high paid experts in an attempt to legitimize a botched investigation. The experts’ credentials are supposed to impress the jurors but the fact remains that there was clear proof of planted evidence, a mishandled crime scene, remains that were handled with no respect for the victim – scooped with a garden shovel and improperly transported, there were no alternate suspects investigated and the Manitowoc Sheriff’s department (who was not even supposed to be there!) happened to discover most of the incriminating evidence.

Last edited by smacc25; 02-21-2016 at 08:51 PM.
02-21-2016 , 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
Lostinthesaus/5ive Have you guys seen this picture of the Rav4 key before & do any of use know where it came from?

http://imgur.com/r/MakingaMurderer/d9skd20
Have not seen it, don't know what it's about, holy **** this keeps getting crazier.
02-21-2016 , 08:58 PM
Summary of the investigation of the Fire Pit.

Teresa’s ’99 Toyota RAV 4 was found at approximately 10:30 the morning of Saturday 11/5/05 on the Avery salvage yard. Investigators arrived at the scene and remained on site for eight days — searching for Teresa and/or evidence of foul play.
Bone fragments were allegedly found in the burn pit behind Avery’s garage on Tuesday 11/8/05.
Special Agent Tom Sturdivant requested sifting equipment from the Wisconsin crime lab (John Ertl).
No one photographed the bones or the collection process.
The (alleged) bones were placed into boxes and removed from the site.
Dr. Leslie Eisenberg, a Forensic Anthropologist with the crime lab received a box of bones on Wednesday 11/9/05.
Since Dr. Eisenberg often worked at the Dane County morgue, she carried the box to the morgue for examination on 11/10/05. She concluded that the bones were human. Specimens were submitted to the crime lab and the FBI for identification.
Special Agent Pevytoe allegedly discovered bones in the Janda burn barrel at the Calumet sheriff’s office on 11/12/05. No photos documented this discovery either.
Lab analyst Sherry Culhane issued a report on 12/5/05 stating that a partial profile was obtained from a charred piece of tissue and that seven of sixteen markers matched Teresa’s standard profile. The other markers were not present due to the condition of the sample.
On December 5, 2005 Dr. Eisenberg, Special Agent Pevytoe, John Ertl, Detective Wiegert and Special Agent Fassbender gathered at the crime lab (basement?) to sift through more of the ash and debris. They allegedly found metal grommets consistent with what would be common on blue jeans.

#Give the Dog a bone

Last edited by smacc25; 02-21-2016 at 09:03 PM. Reason: #Too soon?
02-21-2016 , 09:07 PM
Smacc, that photo of a key is not from the trial. The guy on that reddit page even provided the source. It was from a set of photos someone else provided so they could compare seats in a rav4.
02-21-2016 , 09:34 PM
Follow up to post_6232 Sherry culhane report_ https://justiceforbradcooper.files.w...a_analysis.pdf

The absence of a chain of custody of the bones is critical because it could very well have rendered it inadmissible. What happened? They brought in the state officials right away to ensure that everything would be properly handled. Who dropped the ball? It is very suspicious given everything else that happened in this case.

Since the scene wasn’t documented, there is no proof that any bones were ever on the Avery property. As well, the Manitowoc County coroner was forbidden from entering the scene and none of the forensic experts were summoned until after the bones had been removed. We are to simply accept the word of the state witnesses who claimed to see the bones.

Interestingly, the descriptions of the bones were inconsistent. Dr. Eisenberg claimed to have pieced together fifty-eight fragments of skull bones from the burn pit. That is consistent with them finding a considerable number of fairly large pieces; yet Agent Pevytoe described seeing very small pieces of bone fragments.

“Yes, the fragmentation that I was finding from the burn pit was very small. Much of it was — in some cases was the size of half your little fingernail, if you will. Most of the bones were very fragmented there.” (Pevytoe testimony, day 18) http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...-2007Mar07.pdf

Pevytoe testified that three to four larger bones were found in the Janda burn barrel. If only a few bones were found in the barrel and tiny fragments were found in the burn pit, where did all the larger bones originate? This is a box of bones in evidence. Note that non-human charred bones were also found in each of the locations – burn pit, Janda barrel and quarry. Burnt insulation that appeared to be bone fragments was also found in the burn pit.bones3

DNA Testing

Crime lab analyst, Sherry Culhane reported that a partial DNA profile was obtained from a charred piece of tissue (item BZ) alleged to have been found in the burn pit ash. She used the STR Promega 16 amplification kit where fifteen markers are compared, with one gender marker. Culhane testified that since the specimen was degraded (likely due to extreme heat) she only obtained peaks for seven markers of the fifteen plus the gender marker, so less than 50%. The FBI CODIS database does not even record DNA profiles with less than nine identified markers.

The partial profile matched Teresa Halbach’s standard, but since it’s a partial profile it can’t be conclusively reported as matching Teresa’s DNA. What is the degree of certainty? Culhane reported that the probability of a random unrelated person matching the same seven (eight if including the gender loci) markers is 1 in a billion in the Caucasian population.

DNA stat



DNA pic

It’s unclear how she arrived at that statistic. Arizona is the only state that made their DNA database publicly accessible. Interestingly, based on the available DNA information from Arizona, it appears that the partial profile of item BZ would in fact be much more common than 1 in a billion. These are the actual matches based on a total of approximately 65,000 profiles:

122 pairs match at 9 of 13 loci
20 pairs match at 10 of 13 loci
1 pair matches at 11 of 13 loci (full siblings)
1 pair matches at 12 of 13 loci (full siblings)

Source_ http://www.voiceforthedefenseonline....se-challenging

This means that even with 12 of 13 markers matching there would be an occurrence of 1 in 65,000 — much more common than 1 in a billion. The less markers compared, the more common the occurrence. 122 pairs matched at 9 of 13 markers. Clearly a match of 7 of 15 would be considerably more common than the reported 1 in a billion at trial. The DNA evidence should have been reported more generally as “Teresa Halbach can not be excluded as source.”

FBI DNA Analysis

A section of the charred specimen (BZ) was also sent to the FBI in November, 2005. They conducted a mitochondrial DNA test and reported that Teresa could not be excluded as the source of the charred remains.

In 2006 investigators sent the FBI thirty-one additional samples – bone fragments. The FBI reported that no mitochondrial DNA testing was conducted due to the condition of the fragments but interestingly they also reported that some DNA was obtained and they were returning the processed DNA samples.

DNA fragments FBI
It is puzzling that they obtained DNA yet were unable to perform the mitochondrial testing. Is it possible it excluded Teresa Halbach as the contributor? Contrary to the DNA report, Calumet County Sheriff Jerry Pagel incorrectly informed the media that the FBI confirmed the bones were Teresa’s.

The Calumet County Sheriff says bones found at the family auto salvage yard of a man charged with murder match those of a freelance photographer.Sheriff Jerry Pagel says the FBI confirms that the bones found at Steven Avery’s family salvage yard are those of 25 year old Teresa Halbach. The report from FBI headquarters in Quantico, Virginia says Mitochondrial DNA analysis of evidentiary remains found in a burn pit match the DNA sample of Halbach’s mother.

Prosecutor Ken Kratz referenced this in an email to Sherry Culhane. Apparently the media was never instructed to edit their misleading articles about the FBI “match” so the public believed there was conclusive proof that Teresa’s remains were found on the Avery property.

Kratz Culhane email_ http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...to-Culhane.pdf

Why question this?

Everyone accepts as fact that Teresa’s remains were found in the burn pit. Obviously it appears to be very incriminating, but what is going on with this evidence? Why weren’t protocols followed? No coroner, forensic anthropologist, arson investigator or photographer was called to the scene when the evidence was discovered. They had all of these high paid experts at their disposal and didn’t call on them until after the evidence had been shoveled up and taken to the sheriff’s office.

The DNA evidence described above is not conclusive. How is it even possible for tissue to survive a fire that disintegrated 60% of the bone mass? The teeth which are commonly used to identify a body because they outlast bone didn’t even survive the fire. Something’s wrong and it becomes difficult to accept this evidence as presented.

Since there’s circumstantial evidence that all of the other evidence was fabricated, is it such a stretch to consider that the bone evidence doesn’t hold up either? If we can accept that the RAV4 was placed on the property, key planted in his residence, blood planted in vehicle, bullet planted in garage, should we blindly accept 100% that the bones were Teresa’s just because Culhane reported the partial profile as a “match?” It’s difficult to trust it when proof of the bones on the property doesn’t even exist!

Is it possible that police were unable to find a body but wanted to secure a conviction so they fabricated the bone evidence?

A Similar Case

Around the time of Teresa Halbach’s disappearance, Kristine Rudy of Clark County, Wisconsin also went missing. She was last seen November 12, 2005. She was twenty-one years old and six months pregnant, married to Shaun Rudy. Search efforts were unsuccessful and in December, 2005 investigators discovered a burn pit — sound familiar?

In December, detectives piecing together a case against Christine’s husband Shaun were led to the suspect’s mother’s home in northwestern Clark County. According to court documents, they found a burn pile they believe Shaun used to destroy evidence of the crime. In that burn pile, they found what a well-respected forensic anthropologist determined were fetal remains.

Court documents show Dr. Leslie Eisenberg of the State Crime Lab in Madison wrote investigators asking them to consider the mechanisms by which the fetal remains, yet very few adult remains, made their way to the burn pile, and says it’s possible the fetus was deliberately removed and burned independently of the majority of the adult remains. (link) http://cwbradio.com/news/?fn_mode=fullnews&fn_id=933

The really interesting thing is that the victim’s body was found a few months later – fetus intact.

But investigators were surprised when what’s believed to be Christine Rudy’s body was found last month in the Chippewa River – the fetus was still intact.

It kind of throws us for a loop. It raised a couple questions, says Clark County Sheriff’s Department Chief Deputy Jim Backus.

The bones found in the burn pile were severely charred, but Dr. Eisenberg has an excellent reputation and it’s seen as somewhat unlikely that her analysis was wrong, Backus says.(audio) http://cwbradio.com/news/inc/uploads/web_rudy.mp3

Dr. Eisenberg incorrectly identified bones as human. Though it may be possible to make a mistake like that, it certainly calls her credibility into question. Had they not found the woman, would they have prosecuted Shaun Rudy with the bone evidence?

We must consider the possibility that Dr. Eisenberg may have been mistaken with the Halbach case as well. We know there were charred animal bones mixed in. Is it possible there was nothing but animal bones?

We can also consider that maybe the state revealed just enough to convince the public that Teresa’s remains were found — photographs of random bones in a box and high priced experts sifting through debris. If true, it’s possible Teresa’s body was never found because it wasn’t on the Avery property. Police were searching in the wrong place.

InterFire http://www.interfire.org/features/fatalities.asp

Dr Ertl
https://justiceforbradcooper.files.w...-testimony.pdf

Last edited by smacc25; 02-21-2016 at 09:49 PM.
02-21-2016 , 09:48 PM
We've reached full on conspiratard mode folks. We are now suggesting the bones may not be real.
02-21-2016 , 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Smacc, that photo of a key is not from the trial. The guy on that reddit page even provided the source. It was from a set of photos someone else provided so they could compare seats in a rav4.
Dam I can't find the post that I got it from..Was on laptop earlier.
I'll take ya word for it, figured as much
For the time being


In the meantime. You Gonna partake in a little..
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...s_ama_request/

We Are Waiting.

02-21-2016 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive Making a Murderer
Have not seen it, don't know what it's about, holy **** this keeps getting crazier.
Lol this is true, but not in the way that you mean.

OMG, a photo of a key! Crazy!
02-21-2016 , 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
We've reached full on conspiratard mode folks. We are now suggesting the bones may not be real.

Spoiler:



http://imgur.com/gallery/5jD94qy

Spoiler:
SA new Dog.


Spoiler:

Last edited by smacc25; 02-21-2016 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Dam Gif no work
02-21-2016 , 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
We've reached full on conspiratard mode folks. We are now suggesting the bones may not be real.
LMAO brilliant, more unreasonable doubt.

How do we know that Steven Avery is real?
02-21-2016 , 10:27 PM
SA has to be real, hes the hero in this story.
02-21-2016 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
(FYP)

Does this?

- KZ
To be fair Revots has more experience with wrongful criminal convictions being overturned than Zellner.

I will admit that Zellner's tweets invoke cringes but the whole thing is a process and it is still part of the legal process. Plus I assume an investigation is still on-goimg.

We will see what she has but she has the skins. So we will see what happens.

The unfortunate part is even if there was one worthwhile human being in the Wisconsin State Government nothing official will or could be done to rectify these cases nor actually improve the horribad law and Justice in Wisconsin.
02-21-2016 , 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
LMAO brilliant, more unreasonable doubt.

How do we know that Steven Avery is real?
Spoiler:
02-21-2016 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
She's almost as good as Trump at drumming up lots of publicity while saying nothing of substance.
She has also only got 17 convicted men exonerated so I am sure it is all bluster.

Of course I am sure that number pales in comparison to how many people who were not guilty any given Wisconsin prosecutor has locked up.
02-21-2016 , 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
SA has to be real, hes the hero in this story.
Exactly! He was obviously planted by Netflix and the filmmakers.

Look at the facts:
  • We've only seen decade-old footage of him.

  • Proof that journalists are corrupt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Glass

  • Seinfeld's almost a billionaire. That's almost a billion reasons to make up a character for TV. Clear conflict of interest.

  • No one here has investigated if Steven is actually real, causing reasonable doubt.
02-21-2016 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman Making a Murderer
She has also only got 17 convicted men exonerated so I am sure it is all bluster.
I'm not knocking her credentials, I'm sure she's good at her job. I'm just saying her tweets and public comments so far re: the Avery case, don't amount to anything. Maybe she's got something more. I doubt it, but we shall see.
02-21-2016 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
I'm not knocking her credentials, I'm sure she's good at her job. I'm just saying her tweets and public comments so far re: the Avery case, don't amount to anything. Maybe she's got something more. I doubt it, but we shall see.
Spoiler:
02-21-2016 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Lol this is true, but not in the way that you mean.

OMG, a photo of a key! Crazy!
Heh, that's the post of mine you choose to respond to...

Take a bow champ.
02-21-2016 , 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Good point mark, once they found his blood in her car they should have continued to pursue other potential leads.
Lol actually yeah.

It is not surprising you actually believe this is how criminal investigations are supposed to work given your ignorance in this thread. But seriously?
02-21-2016 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
Spoiler:
02-21-2016 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
What if "dating" lasted 5 years and they were still in regular contact? What if he admitted to accessing her voicemail and cell phone records which may have held key evidence to her whereabouts on the day she went missing? What if he said that he simply "guessed" the passwords and his only explanation for doing this (as opposed to allowing the authorities to) was to see if he himself could find clues as to what happened to her? What if he had noticeable injuries such as scratches and scrapes on his hands?





What if he nails a 1/20 shot of providing the vehicle discoverer with a camera? What if he said this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRa7yPDjBzk

What if Teresa had been receiving harassing phone calls just days prior from someone she clearly knew? What if he can give no time or reason for his visit to her the day before she goes missing?

Are trying to argue that considering the above, an ex-lover of 5 years who was still in contact with her regularly should not have been investigated thoroughly?




This is true....

Unless:

- He had visited the Avery yard repeatedly.

- He tried to kill his ex-girlfriend with an ax and shouted 'die dirty b****' just five days after Teresa Halbach went missing.

- He was just 15 miles from Avery family salvage yard where Halbach was last seen.

- He was on the yard on day searchers found Halbach's SUV - and attacked ex the same day.

Are you really trying to argue this guy should not have been investigated?

We all know most murders are committed by strangers and not people close to the victim. Why should police waste time investigating family and friends of the victims to rule them out. It is ridiculous that so many law enforcement jurisdictions do all this backwards and investigate those people first. Wisconsin is clearly on the cutting edge of criminal investigation.

      
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