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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

02-20-2016 , 05:45 AM
I wanted to keep the fishiness surrounding the interrogations and the coercion IN the interrogations separate, but at this point it starts to weave together so I'm not sure how to make it flow best. I said 'clearly coerced' earlier but I don't want to just preach to the choir.

Anyhow, here is the quote again from ConvolutedBrian; I'm emphasizing a different part now:

This is the audio recorded at Mishicot High School. Part One is a noisy and poorly recorded tape. The microphone was placed without testing its effectiveness. Why tape one’s noise level is high and variable is a mystery. This is something that confession seminar people need to add to their training. Part Two is a cleaner tape. These were recorded in the morning of 27 February, 2006.


We might be both taking the same crazy pills, but tape two is subtly yet noticeably cleaner.

Here is where tape one ends:



Obviously a logical break point, right after the interrogation but before the statement.

However, everything before this break is the first human 'verification' in this entire case that SA did in fact murder, and it's recorded with taterphone3000. That can't be stressed enough. And even that old potato picked up enough to make it seem suspiciously coercive. Now suddenly potato is working just a bit better with all the messiness behind it and an official statement ahead of it...

But that's still a minor point. I'm just pointing out I wasn't the only one that noticed.

Here is the statement BD makes, after everything, an hour of interrogation and a Bombfire Of Horror coerced:



Compare this to the only audible thing transcribed earlier:





Also, in that first image in green is the first instance of the detectives to add all the other inaudible stuff earlier, what follows is 12 pages of them telling BD to add in the other stuff.

Compare the 1st draft of his statement in the first interrogation to the 1st thing he 'volunteers' at the beginning of the 2nd interrogation.




The pattern needs to be recognized, because the final interrogation has the M O'Kelly formulation, the 2nd has the 1st formulation, but the 03/01/06 interrogation has an unrecorded formulation.
02-20-2016 , 07:16 AM
I especially like when the transcriptions actually have the printed text "ta" in place of the word "to".
02-20-2016 , 08:05 AM
If you needed any more proof that SA was guilty until proven innocent

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...and_attorneys/

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 02-20-2016 at 08:15 AM.
02-20-2016 , 05:23 PM
Thread confirmed dead with no Fraleyight and PoorSkillz.

I guess that's what you'd expect when everyone agrees and there are no shills spewing propaganda.
02-20-2016 , 05:25 PM
I dont think it will be dead we still have decent information without your useless back and forth with the 2 shills that for thousands of post barely brought anything new.
02-20-2016 , 06:16 PM
I still stand by this theory.

I think there is one or two names you won't ever hear that know exactly what happened, but I think the big three are:

Hermann
Vogel
Kocurek

*Petersen is also definitely involved but I feel he's been in the media too much to actually know as much as the three above. He is likely a Captain among foot soldiers, but he's not a General.

The other names you hear such as Lenk, Colborn, Sherry Culhane, Pagel, Fassbender, Wiegert - all just following orders. What's interesting is that NO ONE NEW to the force was integral in anything significant that occurred in this case. Remiker, who seems to be dissentive throughout the entire ordeal and is clearly younger than everyone else, has almost no impact on the case at all, aside from being heard on a few phone calls and testifying that Lenk was present at every discovery of evidence.

This post is really about Sheriff Hermann though. If I had to put all my money on one number, it would be this guy.

- He's a rival business competitor of the Avery's for his entire life.
- His name is occurs 5 times or less in thousands of documents regarding this case while Lenk and Colborn occur over 400 times each.
- Here is his connection to the FBI:Sheriff Hermann's connection to FBI (also some points of interest in their regarding his LEO brother, his salvage yard and vehicle experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Here's my conspiratard spew:

...A few follow up posts on reddit further theorizing that there's no way it was ST and Bobby without Manitowoc County assisting, almost bring it home. But they still want to believe that it was pure coincidence that ST and Bobby happen to gift wrap Manitowoc Law enforcement a murder 3 weeks after their depositions and 20 feet from the front door of the man who is deposing them. ST/Bobby even would have given MC a jump start on the frame work. Some even want to believe that the murder was actually an accident or suicide turned into golden opportunity for everyone (except SA and BD of course).

Probabilities simply have to be off the bottom of the charts for all this to coincide.

Probabilities of these many events coinciding with a theoretical guilty Steven Avery are even lower than the above theories, and are bordering on absolutely ridiculous.

I do think that ST is involved, but can't say much about Bobby. Bobby is BD's brother. Doesn't seem like he'd just be fine with BD rotting away in jail for the rest of his life. Can't say the same for the step-dad though. If this was a frame job, then it was a complete frame job from well before October 31, 2005 to the present. Manitowoc County didn't just happen to stumble upon a murder yards from SA's front door at this absolutely perfect time. ST didn't just decide to kill someone out of the blue or out of rage or desire and then execute all the steps required to pull of framing SA all while luckboxing the fact that MC decided to just roll with it and continue the frame. Ridiculous. If even one bit of this evidence is not legit, then this was planned well before TH arrived at Avery Salvage on Oct. 31st. It involved everyone we've seen to some degree, and probably a few we haven't seen.

It's also likely that those who are lying and covering up don't know or didn't know that Avery did not commit this murder (although I hope they are doubting that now). They could just be following orders that are rolling down a chain that is anchored by 2-3 guys at the top who do know everything and stand to lose money, future money, status, rank, pride, etc . And perhaps it was enough threat of loss to hatch a plan to make Avery go away. And no, he cannot just be killed as the former sheriff mentioned. That doesn't absolve them of their past transgressions. That doesn't right their wrongs. If they kill him, he becomes a martyr. If they never sent him to jail the first time, maybe he doesn't die in whatever tragic staged death/murder they would come up with. But framing him for rape, murder, mutilation?....well that just makes everything go away, doesn't it?

In my opinion, in the minds of the co-conspirators who are not pulling the strings, they decided long ago Steven Avery is guilty because he's an Avery. And if they are twisting the truth a bit to make sure a guilty, murdering, raping psychopath is sent to jail, then they did their jobs and can sleep at night and will get promoted and keep living their normal lives feeling that much safer. I remember the sketch artist saying he doubted the new DNA tests that exonerated Avery and still believed that Avery raped that woman. After his full exoneration. Can you imagine what must be going through that guy's head when he sees Avery being hugged by the governor and about to win or settle a $36 mil lawsuit? That is the former DEPUTY CHIEF. Some of the seemingly leaked info towards the end of the doc showed us what vicious, slanderous rumor mongering is prevalent in that town about the Averys.

Why would anyone go to these great lengths to handle the Avery problem? Who knows. Maybe someone had plans for some or all of the 36 mil that county stood to lose and now the freeway they were going to build and profit greatly on is going to have to be put on hold. Maybe a former sheriff or 2 plan on running for office somewhere but who's going to vote for someone with a record of terrible police work, cover ups and lies that caused the county to lose 36 million while they were in charge. Maybe with Avery not around and legal bills piling up, The Avery's have to sell the salvage yard. Maybe that land would make a perfect cannabis farm when Wisconsin legalizes and regulates and hey, maybe some names and reputations can be cleared too.

My point is that there may be reasons, but its all just conjecture.

But who could pull off the murder? A member of Law Enforcement? No way. Too risky. If their DNA is somehow found on the scene mixed with TH's, or someone witnesses the act, its over for everybody. A hired hitman? Maybe, but again, too risky. If cops get caught talking to a hitman and Avery's name is in the convo, its game over. No, it's gotta be someone on the inside. Someone with access to SA's yard and knows the area and can move about both day and night. Someone who's close, but not TOO close so as to have ties and allegiances too strong that might cause 2nd thoughts. Someone who's controllable that we have history on and if they fail or get caught, we can simply deny everything and say he's trying to fabricate this stuff to play on the fact that his brother-in-law had the same thing happen. Someone who knows how to handle a weapon well. Someone who knows how to handle bodies, dead bodies, bloody dead bodies and fire....like a hunter or something.

But how do we get him to do it? Maybe he's sick of the heat SA's bringing on his family. Maybe he is jealous of the money and fame Avery has at the moment and he sees an opportunity to land a few mil himself while upping his chances to take over the yard and business. Maybe he's not so fond of the slow kid and wouldn't be too crushed if the kid was raised by the state instead of living at home until he's 40. Maybe he mentions some of this to someone at the town tavern one night and meetings are arranged, ideas are tossed around. Maybe it's mentioned to him that if a dead body ever wound up near Steven Avery's property that Manitowoc would make sure SA was charged and oh by the way, your great uncle in Madison just added you to his will.

- That's how I see things potentially happening.

The story is incredible nonetheless. It is much, much better than fiction and I hope in the coming days, months, (not years) that we see at least some new facts rise to the surface.
Need more? The Tale of Sheriff Hermann



my my my....
02-20-2016 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
I dont think it will be dead we still have decent information without your useless back and forth with the 2 shills that for thousands of post barely brought anything new.
The thread exists for the back and forth though. 5ive bringing tons of new and intelligent angles IMO. Now there's no one to argue with him. Was by far the most interesting part of the thread until the noticeable difference in PoorSkillz' post quality. Seemed like a forum bot by the end.

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 02-20-2016 at 06:29 PM.
02-20-2016 , 06:32 PM
Eh there's only so long that I can watch them twist facts or even word definitions and tear apart straw men while ignoring any substantive points. They've worn out their welcome imo
02-20-2016 , 06:35 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...and_attorneys/

Oski, thoughts on this?

- Wrongful death lawsuit filed by Halbach's well before the trial starts, and before the investigation is even close to finished and even before Kratz' press conference.
02-20-2016 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
I dont think it will be dead we still have decent information without your useless back and forth with the 2 shills that for thousands of post barely brought anything new.
Come on eddy you can't be serious, that's a pretty unfair assessment.

Ok, well, the 2nd part. WE ALL did our share of useless back and forth, but I quoted just a fraction of LITS posts that were new and relevant.

If you google Steven Avery right now you STILL get that nonsense about Omg Wat The Doc Didn't Show You Click Here, so you simply can't say digging into the transcripts is 'barely... anything new'.

Lol though, maybe I'm biased because LITS posted a bunch of transcript screenshots. Taking screenshots and uploading images makes me want to die so I appreciate anybody doing that heavy lifting.

Last edited by 5ive; 02-20-2016 at 06:53 PM.
02-20-2016 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
The thread exists for the back and forth though. 5ive bringing tons of new and intelligent angles IMO. Now there's no one to argue with him. Was by far the most interesting part of the thread until the noticeable difference in PoorSkillz' post quality. Seemed like a forum bot by the end.
Lol, well, I'm only about 2/5 of the way through of what I think will be something definitive about the BD interviews. The quiet is good as the posts will mostly be grouped close together for anybody not reading the entire thread.

The headshot is up next, the unrecorded interrogations and interviews with BD and his family that happened at a ****ing hotel.
02-20-2016 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Thread confirmed dead with no Fraleyight and PoorSkillz.

I guess that's what you'd expect when everyone agrees and there are no shills spewing propaganda.
Well, the reality is that we are basically waiting to see what happens with Zellner, etc. Nothing wrong with that. If those guys were actually making rational arguments instead of just lobbing the same talking points without any substance, it would be a different story.
02-20-2016 , 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...and_attorneys/

Oski, thoughts on this?

- Wrongful death lawsuit filed by Halbach's well before the trial starts, and before the investigation is even close to finished and even before Kratz' press conference.
I read that. What they were trying to do is not possible. They tried to make a fraudulent transfer claim in order to lock up SA's money. However, a bona fide transfer for value is not something that qualifies.

Otherwise, you can only have a prejudgment attachment in limited situations and this would not be one of them (not even close).

I do find it strange because of the timing (as you point out), but I don't necessarily find anything nefarious with it. I just think Hallbach's ran into some overzealous lawyer who realized that there would be no money in such a case unless the settlement proceeds were able to be tied up.

I am sure once the settlement funds were all accounted for, the civil case was dismissed.
02-20-2016 , 08:02 PM
i'm not smart enough to search nor patient enough to read 410 pages....but why does SA's murder trial/conviction suspend the pending civil suit for his wrongful prior conviction?

I would think TA's side would push for him winning that Manitowoc lottery and then trying to collect the whole thing with their own civil suit.
02-20-2016 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
I guess that's what you'd expect when everyone agrees and there are no shills spewing propaganda.
Not everyone agrees. You have the most extreme views of anyone here. Most would put 20-80% chance he's guilty. Yours is .00001%
02-20-2016 , 10:57 PM
Oh ill be back in full capacity in coming months when more information is released about SA and the rape of his relative. By june you should have all the information you need.

As of right now, I won't be very active itt. Its kind of pointless at this point, we are both looking at the same evidence and reaching different conclusions. We just have to agree to disagree.
02-20-2016 , 11:44 PM
Better hide the women and children, you won't believe what you're about to hear about Steven Avery.
02-20-2016 , 11:59 PM
Oh noes he raped a cousin he's definitely guilty of a separate murder now!
02-21-2016 , 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Oh ill be back in full capacity in coming months when more information is released about SA and the rape of his relative. By june you should have all the information you need.

As of right now, I won't be very active itt. Its kind of pointless at this point, we are both looking at the same evidence and reaching different conclusions. We just have to agree to disagree.
Wait will you come back if I promise to read the transcripts? I haven't yet.
02-21-2016 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerPush Making a Murderer
Not everyone agrees. You have the most extreme views of anyone here. Most would put 20-80% chance he's guilty. Yours is .00001%
Heh. You're not fooling anybody.

Btw I made a short post or two above, does that start to answer your question about the confession?
02-21-2016 , 12:59 AM
Lol keep fighting the good fight fellas, without PoorS and Fraley you've managed to build a truly epic conspiratard echo chamber. I have to admit it's pretty impressive.
02-21-2016 , 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5 Making a Murderer
Oh noes he raped a cousin he's definitely guilty of a separate murder now!
No, hes guilty because of obvious reasons. The rape of his 17 year old cousin is just clear indication how much of a pos he is and will hopefully wake people up that their time could be better utilized not defending a man who lacks enough empathy to rape a 17year old and brag about it.
02-21-2016 , 01:23 AM
Take a bow guys.
02-21-2016 , 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive Making a Murderer
Heh. You're not fooling anybody.
I'm not trying to fool anyone. Wtf are you talking about?
02-21-2016 , 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...and_attorneys/

Oski, thoughts on this?

- Wrongful death lawsuit filed by Halbach's well before the trial starts, and before the investigation is even close to finished and even before Kratz' press conference.
I'm not Oski but I am going to chalk it up to them getting bad legal advice that was targeting the potential settlement money Avery might get from the state. I suspect wanting to get in on that payout was the primary motivation for jumping the gun so fast.

It also reinforces the idea that law enforcement was only investigating one person. Thus giving the victim's family a clear target and then because of his pending lawsuit motivation to move quickly.

I think without the pending lawsuit/settlement they never would have pursued a wrongful death suit.

If is funny the same judge from the two criminal cases was originally assigned to the civil case.

      
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