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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

02-19-2016 , 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Sure, a situation where someone falsely confesses without any intimidation or physical violence.. Where he isn't held for hours without contact, water or food, where his lawyers and parents are denied access.. Where his confession matches physical evidence. You would have an accurate comparison.
No this is exactly what I MEANT to say. You are asking for an appropriate comparison. The above would be an equivalent.


Someone who confesses without intimidation or physical violence, where he isn't held for hours without water or food, where his lawyers and parents are denied access to him and where his confession matches physical evidence.
02-19-2016 , 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive Making a Murderer
F it, added it and some more purple arrows (cuz you can never have too many purple arrows):




The red is actually supervillainesque, saying 'ya don't worry bro you're more important than my appointment' but implying 'goddamit we will stay here all night if we have to'.
Its discusting that ppl ITT are in denial that he was coerced into a false confession after reading the transcripts of the BD interviews.

Who said poker was dead.
02-19-2016 , 02:13 AM
BD denied the bonfire unprovoked. It wasn't as if they asked him about the bonfire, he brought it up when he was asked for a timeline and later this became a big part of his innocent narrative. "he just went to a fire after play playstation2"
02-19-2016 , 02:18 AM
Here is where you guys let your tinfoil hats take over your better judgement. If you allow a thought experiment for a moment. Read those transcripts as if he did the things he is admitting to and he is trying to lie about them. You will see the conclusion as to what is going on is obvious. They are trying to get the truth out of him and he is giving them a little at a time.

This wouldn't be a problem for me at all if not for the reasons I mentioned. His confession matching evidence, no forceful actions by police.. Beating a confession out of him, denying him water or food or contact for hours before he confesses. Each and every interview is short, up until the first interview where he confesses. In that interview he confesses to stuff within 30 minutes then the interview goes on for a few hours but we don't see the similarities we see in coerced confessions. They just aren't there.
02-19-2016 , 02:22 AM
I guess it all depends on your thoughts while reading the confession. If you go into the confession with your conclusion already being he was coerced, you will see the confession that way. If you do not go into the confession with that assumption already being made I would argue that is not the conclusion you will reach. This is likely why 12 jurors convicted him relatively quickly.
02-19-2016 , 02:27 AM


Purple

1. This is by far the weirdest thing in the entire transcript, even though it's small and seemingly irrelevant. Interviewer says 'flesh'. Then, there is a typo, turning 'bit' to 'it'. This is worth pointing out as it's the ONLY typo in the entire transcript. THEN, 'flesh' is misspelled twice, the same way, directly after a correct spelling. These are the ONLY misspelled words in the entire transcript. All of it grouped together right here. It's so weird I'm speechless.

2. Another example of the ellipses clearly being something unintelligible, where the interviewer has to ask for clarification.

3. Back to what seems like an obvious redaction. These three underlines and the following 'yeah' make no sense.


Green

I was going to use the green for all examples of feeding info and waiting for the correct affirmative or negative, depending, but that would just get out of control. The whole damn thing could be green. This example is the one of the most egregious, however, especially considering everything previous. Note the first forceful demand answer in this transcript. Interviewers seemed to slide previous unanswered y/n questions.

Also note this is the only time Brendan is capitalized, which I just noticed now.

This is honestly the most bizarre interview or confession transcript I've ever read. Usually the style is not only consistent throughout the same transcripts but across different transcripts from the same office.
02-19-2016 , 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
No there is no typo, he wasn't held for hours before he confessed and his confession is corroborated with evidence. Quit being disingenuous.
Wat... I'm not being disingenuous because I haven't even made a point as a direct response yet! I was asking you to clarify because as phrased it was reading weird and I COULD NOT understand.

If you wanted to be snarky you could say LEARN TO READ BETTER but with these responses you're jumping the gun.
02-19-2016 , 02:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
No this is exactly what I MEANT to say. You are asking for an appropriate comparison. The above would be an equivalent.


Someone who confesses without intimidation or physical violence, where he isn't held for hours without water or food, where his lawyers and parents are denied access to him and where his confession matches physical evidence.
Ok, I see where the confusion came from. I'll take the fall if that helps. You accused me of nitpicking before so I'll drop it.


So we are in agreement that his lawyers and parents were denied access to him?


p.s. lol I knew you thought I was trying some trick, when I was actually reading 3 things at once and was genuinely expressing that I wasn't understanding

Last edited by 5ive; 02-19-2016 at 02:46 AM.
02-19-2016 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
How many times she was shot in the head

Which side of her head was shot50/50 chance
It was CCSD that implied TH was shot in the head & in garage BY SA not BD telling them.
See transcripts of BD interviews.

Bleach on his pants
You sure these were in the trial? IF the magic jeans are can you provide the spots were TH DNA was found on them?

Bullet in the garage
Again, CONTAMINATION, gun residue?
It was CCSD that implied TH was shot in the head & in garage BY SA not BD telling them.

Vivid details as to why she was put in the back of the rav 4 after dying
Spoiler:
Shh. That info was on the news.


The leg irons that he knew about
Spoiler:
The fluffy pink ones?


just to name a few. I feel like getting all those right right after CCSD said as much . Was not difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
This is patently false. The bullet in the garage wasn't recovered until after his confession and the news or the police knew nothing of his bleached pants until Barb told them .
fyp

Spoiler:
Tbf to saus he refutes all this evidence much much better.

Last edited by smacc25; 02-19-2016 at 02:55 AM.
02-19-2016 , 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The bullet in the garage wasn't recovered until after the autopsy revealed she was shot in the head. After realizing that there was no way they would be able to prove any of Brendan's earlier "confessions" about raping and killing TH in the trailer due to absolutely no physical evidence whatsoever, they switched game plans to point to the garage as the crime scene. They also knew SA had a weapon he had recently been firing in the yard so a bullet should be no trouble to find. Besides they have the rifle in the Crime Lab if they need a bullet. At that point, Weigert and Fassbender coerced his confession and the news or the police knew nothing of his bleached pants until he told them.
FYP
02-19-2016 , 02:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Here is where you guys let your tinfoil hats take over your better judgement. If you allow a thought experiment for a moment. Read those transcripts as if he did the things he is admitting to and he is trying to lie about them. You will see the conclusion as to what is going on is obvious. They are trying to get the truth out of him and he is giving them a little at a time.

This wouldn't be a problem for me at all if not for the reasons I mentioned. His confession matching evidence, no forceful actions by police.. Beating a confession out of him, denying him water or food or contact for hours before he confesses. Each and every interview is short, up until the first interview where he confesses. In that interview he confesses to stuff within 30 minutes then the interview goes on for a few hours but we don't see the similarities we see in coerced confessions. They just aren't there.
That doesn't require an experiment, I totally see why you think that.

I should've never told you about beating them, huh? You're not gonna concede this point. Fool me once, I guess, that I thought you'd be straight up and not go HAM with 'well, they're not physically torturing him.' I linked the Cornell thing.

http://courses2.cit.cornell.edu/soci...nfessions.html

Last edited by 5ive; 02-19-2016 at 03:15 AM.
02-19-2016 , 02:57 AM
dammit i got faileyed
02-19-2016 , 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
I guess it all depends on your thoughts while reading the confession. If you go into the confession with your conclusion already being he was coerced, you will see the confession that way. If you do not go into the confession with that assumption already being made I would argue that is not the conclusion you will reach. This is likely why 12 jurors convicted him relatively quickly.
Like I said the other thing wasn't a trick, but I am letting you hang yourself with these posts. I know what's coming in this 1st interview.
02-19-2016 , 03:18 AM
The whole thing could be green and purple, it's so incredible:

02-19-2016 , 03:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive Making a Murderer
dammit i got faileyed



Spoiler:
02-19-2016 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive Making a Murderer
The whole thing could be green and purple, it's so incredible:

02-19-2016 , 04:39 AM
So, just when I thought purple thing was solved it gets weirder.

It just made no sense for there to be redacted parts, but at the same time the transcribing protocol was so weird, the ellipses, that while reading it's impossible to tell what are pauses, what is unintelligible speech, and what is seemingly redacted. I made the dumb assumption there was no audio as it wasn't included with all the other transcripts and videos.

Well, there is audio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPP_1GhvWQE

http://www.convolutedbrian.com/dasse...ons_links.html

I'll spare the suspense: It is impossible to get that transcript from that audio. They don't diverge, seemingly, but concerning the ellipses the audio is of such a poor quality it is impossible, many times, to tell when BD is silent or when he is unintelligible.

This would be one thing if it put us back at square one: no audio released, or if the microphone were positioned in such a stupid way that it only picked up the detectives (ignoring the 'happy accident' nature of this)

What makes this so bizarre and to me, damning, is that Fassbender is also unintelligible for much of it and the transcript doesn't reflect this at all. There are minutes long chunks of hiss, and throughout Wiegert is the only one clear and intelligible. This would also be fine if there was audio and no transcript.

But, the person who made that youtube vid tried to just follow along with the pdf and keep it synced with the video and couldn't. He wasn't trying to transcribe. There is no way that transcript came faithfully and honestly from that audio. It's impossible.

Last edited by 5ive; 02-19-2016 at 04:45 AM.
02-19-2016 , 04:49 AM
Srsly, go to 39:40 and start with Wiegert saying 'So then after you throw the seat on, what happens, when do you see the body parts?' and follow along:

http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazon...hicotHSOne.mp3

It's not even the poorest quality part either.
02-19-2016 , 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive Making a Murderer
Oski, LITs, anybody, can you throw some feedback on my post below before I go HAM on this *****:
Yeah I got some on the way.

In the meantime, here's some fun reading:

Neighboring county cops frame another man for murder? This is unreal.

http://truthinjustice.org/ken-hudson.htm
02-19-2016 , 05:55 AM
Some fun further reading from the Wisconsin prosecutorial efforts of the 80s, 90, 2000s, and today!

http://truthinjustice.org/markprice.htm

The District attorney gets caught and sent to prison.

Quote:
...District Attorney Joseph Paulus — who was later imprisoned for taking bribes to fix criminal cases — engaged in improper conduct to convict him.

“Mr. Paulus devised and executed a plan to present perjured testimony. He bribed potential state’s witnesses ... and then hid the bribery from Mr. Price and his attorney. He withheld or destroyed evidence helpful to the defense,”
Sound familiar?
02-19-2016 , 05:58 AM
Man...WHAT THE ACTUAL FU*K is going on in the land of beer and cheese?

Quote:
Oshkosh, WI detective Phil Charley can't remember who told him to destroy all the DNA evidence in a rape case in which the defendant had already been chosen. It was 1991, Joe Paulus was DA and his best friend, Vince Biskupic, was Dep. DA. Another 13 years would pass before Paulus went to prison for taking bribes to fix cases, and Biskupic pretended not to know him. Joseph Frey was bagged for the rape and sentenced to 102 years. Then a clerk found a scrap of bedsheet that Det. Charley missed, one thing led to another, and not only was Frey cleared, but the actual rapist (who died in 2008) was identified
http://truthinjustice.org/frey.htm
02-19-2016 , 06:11 AM
More Wisconsinery:

Quote:
Hudson’s bid for a new trial alleges dozens of instances of misconduct by Schneider, Biskupic and police officers, including Kaukauna Police Chief John Manion.

Manion and Biskupic didn’t return calls and e-mails left at their offices. Among the newly discovered evidence is a Kaukauna Police log and a Hortonville Police report indicating officers discussed the stabbing over the radio prior to Hudson’s arrest — challenging sworn testimony by officers at Hudson’s 2001 trial that they didn’t know at the time that Van Dyn Hoven had been stabbed and therefore would have had no reason to plant a knife in his truck.

Although Hudson and his attorneys made nine requests for the Kaukauna Police Department dispatch tape, the motion said, Biskupic and Schneider repeatedly failed to respond to the demands.

Last year, Schneider informed the defense that the tape was destroyed. Hudson also cites an expert report that refutes sworn testimony from Manion, Kaukauna’s chief of police, that a tape of Hudson’s alleged confession had erased itself. A recent analysis by Steve Cain of Forensic Tape Analysis Inc., concluded such a maneuver was impossible.

“Cain ... determined the tape could not have erased itself as claimed because the equipment did not have the capability to self-rewind and erase and that someone had to manually cause the equipment to erase the tape,” the motion said, adding that “police would not (have) erased ‘evidence’ of the alleged confession.”

Planted evidence?

The motion also charged that Kaukauna police officers planted and photographed the driver-side window crank from Hudson’s truck at the crime scene, then switched it before trial with the passenger-side crank found later by the state Crime Laboratory under the truck’s seat.

The two cranks have different designs.

Rebholz wrote that the switch was done to match the state’s theory that Van Dyn Hoven tried to fight off Hudson from the passenger side of his truck, ripped off the window crank and dropped it next to her portable tape player.

In 2004, Cook discovered that the crank that the Crime Laboratory found in the truck was missing from its sealed evidence bag. Kaukauna police claimed they found it two years later — sitting on the seat of Hudson’s truck, which was still being stored at the police department.

But, state Crime Laboratory analyst John Ertl testified last summer that crank couldn’t have been the same one found under the seat years before because it bore the same Crime Lab tag another analyst had put on the crank found at the crime scene.

Moreover, Ertl testified, the tag on the crank that police claimed they found at the scene didn’t conform to the Crime Lab’s numbering system.

And, the motion noted, the two officers who found Van Dyn Hoven’s body reported seeing the young woman’s portable player and headphones but no window crank — which a Kaukauna police photograph shows lying right next to the player.

Ineffective counsel
LOL Crime Lab. Hey! It's Mr. Ertl!

http://truthinjustice.org/hudson1.htm
02-19-2016 , 06:24 AM
Just another day in Wisconsin

Quote:
The State Journal examined more than 2,000 pages of documents, including records from Humphrey's office files obtained under the open-records law. The newspaper also interviewed more than two dozen attorneys, judges, defendants, legal experts and law-enforcement officials.

The newspaper's investigation found that the veteran prosecutor:

— Wrongfully kept a young man in the Dane County Jail for a month, even after he was repeatedly notified of the error.

— Made false or misleading statements in affidavits, in correspondence and in court hearings to advance his case or to cover up mistakes.

— Charged two witnesses and had a third arrested for failing to show up for trials that had been cancelled — a tactic his boss had warned him was "an abuse of your authority."

— Aggressively pursued seven felony charges against a bankrupt father who was $2,846 behind in child support — a prosecution the judge said should "make one wonder about the integrity of (the) justice system."


http://truthinjustice.org/humphrey1.htm
02-19-2016 , 06:32 AM
Stop making up stuff. We all know that stuff is impossible
02-19-2016 , 06:33 AM
Wisconsin DA's caught attempting to win convictions against people who have done nothing wrong. When you just really need to convict someone, you can always just make sh*t up I guess.

Quote:
"I have to say it strikes me that your evidence is beyond thin," federal Appeals Judge Diane Wood told prosecutors. "I'm not sure what your actual theory in this case is."
Woman is immediately released within hours of the appeals court hearing the case.

http://truthinjustice.org/thompson-georgia.htm


      
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