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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

02-15-2016 , 09:03 PM
"every single piece of evidence has a relatively high chance of being false"

lol ya ok..
02-15-2016 , 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Then you should have reached a rational conclusion months ago I guess.
Did someone ask for this list or something? Or did your unwarranted list simply have to be re-posted at this point in time? It just looks like a campaign, a shill's work. It's strange to say the least.
02-15-2016 , 09:19 PM
There is a next to 0 chance all of it was planted. In order to reach the conclusion that all of it was planted you have to assume that someone killed TH within minutes after leaving SA property, Burned her body, then planted her body on his property coincidentally on a night where SA just happened to have a large bonfire and according to many witnesses went on until late in the night. Then the car would have had to be planted while at the same time trying to hide the car (license plates were found at a different location) then the cell phone, pda would have to be planted outside of his door in his burn barrel. This has nothing to do with the cops so far, just the killer. Unless you think the cops killed her too.

Now the cops after discovering the vehicle would have had to take wet blood from somewhere, plant it in the car and be able to fool the blood splatter expert into thinking the stains were consistent with stains in avery's car. Then they would have had to either get a bullet from Avery's gun that was already fired rub it in TH blood that was in the back of the rav 4 then plant it in the garage. Then they would have had to plant her key in his trailer and again, rub her blood on the key.

All of this just happens to line up with tons of circumstantial evidence too. It is ok to say "I think the key may have been planted" it is not ok to say, I think it was all planted. There is just too much evidence and too many thinks that would have to happen for evidence to be planted.
02-15-2016 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Lost and 5ive,

Can you provide me with an example of a murder trial where the defense did not present reasonable doubt iyo?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus
02-15-2016 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer

He does have an alibi...he has several actually. He has recorded phone calls the night of. He has Scott Tadych saying his fire was only 3 feet high. He has Brendan Dassey admitting many times that nothing like this occurred (although this is after his coerced confession).
alibi/ˈaləˌbī/
noun

a claim or piece of evidence that one was elsewhere when an act, typically a criminal one, is alleged to have taken place.
02-15-2016 , 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
Nothing odd about this, right?
Nah
02-15-2016 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
There is a next to 0 chance all of it was planted. In order to reach the conclusion that all of it was planted you have to assume that someone killed TH within minutes after leaving SA property, Burned her body, then planted her body on his property coincidentally on a night where SA just happened to have a large bonfire and according to many witnesses went on until late in the night. Then the car would have had to be planted while at the same time trying to hide the car (license plates were found at a different location) then the cell phone, pda would have to be planted outside of his door in his burn barrel. This has nothing to do with the cops so far, just the killer. Unless you think the cops killed her too.

Now the cops after discovering the vehicle would have had to take wet blood from somewhere, plant it in the car and be able to fool the blood splatter expert into thinking the stains were consistent with stains in avery's car. Then they would have had to either get a bullet from Avery's gun that was already fired rub it in TH blood that was in the back of the rav 4 then plant it in the garage. Then they would have had to plant her key in his trailer and again, rub her blood on the key.

All of this just happens to line up with tons of circumstantial evidence too. It is ok to say "I think the key may have been planted" it is not ok to say, I think it was all planted. There is just too much evidence and too many thinks that would have to happen for evidence to be planted.

Before you get put back in The Drizin Box, I gotta say there is no reason to assume any of this, especially the bold. I can't even fathom why you'd think this in the first place.

Also, LARGE bonfire...

Wait scratch that, I guess you're referring to these new crime scene photos just released:





Note the alien spaceship being burned as well.
02-15-2016 , 09:45 PM
I don't think too many people are arguing that *all* of the evidence is planted.

Why do I have to believe that everything was planted on Oct 31s though? She was last seen Oct 31st, car wasn't reported found until Nov 5th, and her bones weren't found till the 7th or 8th (can't remember off hand). Sounds like there was ample time (and opportunity) to plant any/all evidence after Oct 31st.
02-15-2016 , 10:18 PM
^ Exactly

Lets assume Zipperer is killer.

Trivially easy for him to kill her on Oct 31, or a few days later. When Avery's all gone, trivially easy for him to place bones/cell phone in yard. Maybe Rav4 too.

As for the bullet, based on all the casings in garage, more likely than not a bullet in there too. Easy enough for Culhane to get th DNA on it.

Lol key

And easy enough for cops to get blood on Rav4. They had a number of days to work with.
02-15-2016 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by imjosh Making a Murderer
Lol i love the looks at the camera. This reporter just trolls ken throughout the entire interview. How the **** did they get Kratz to do this interview

Spoiler:



Note her age and level of objective attractiveness. Factor in subjective attractiveness as this is apparently his type. You know the answer.

You're not gonna knock The Prize off his game.
02-15-2016 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
This has already been explained to you why they had to do a lot of the searching. They were evidence techs and both coutnies were pretty small.
LITS is an idiot that needs things explained 10 times.
02-15-2016 , 10:57 PM
Yes, you do need to make those assumptions . TH disappeared on the same night sa had a bonfire . The killer planted her bones where he had the bonfire . Those are needed assumptions to say he is innocent.
02-15-2016 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
This has already been explained to you why they had to do a lot of the searching. They were evidence techs and both coutnies were pretty small.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerPush Making a Murderer
LITS is an idiot that needs things explained 10 times.

Had to.

Can you give me even a ball park number as to how many evidence techs there were between both countries? How many were on scene?

Now let's go one step further. How many evidence techs from either county had been deposed in a civil lawsuit, brought by the very man who's property/trailer/garage there were searching.
02-15-2016 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Yes, you do need to make those assumptions . TH disappeared on the same night sa had a bonfire . The killer planted her bones where he had the bonfire . Those are needed assumptions to say he is innocent.

WAT?

They keep burn barrels outside there house. How often do they burn things? Daily? Bi-weekly? Weekly?

You don't have to believe anything of the sort.

I haven't seen any evidence that states TH's remains were even burned on Oct 31st. Could have been the 1st, or 2nd or 3rd.

Edit (or 4th, 5th)
02-15-2016 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
^ Exactly

Lets assume Zipperer is killer.

Trivially easy for him to kill her on Oct 31, or a few days later. When Avery's all gone, trivially easy for him to place bones/cell phone in yard. Maybe Rav4 too.

As for the bullet, based on all the casings in garage, more likely than not a bullet in there too. Easy enough for Culhane to get th DNA on it.

Lol key

And easy enough for cops to get blood on Rav4. They had a number of days to work with.

So:

1. Zipperer planted the bones, cell phone, and Rav4.

2. Cops planted the key and blood (which was shown not to come from the vial by the FBI's "dishonest test").

3. Culhane (accidentally?) planted Teresa's DNA on the bullet somehow.

4. The investigators coerced Brendan into lying that Steven did it.


How does that make this whole framing conspiracy theory any more reasonable? The more parties involved, the more unreasonable it gets.


On top of that, Steven took off work that afternoon (for what he claims is the first time ever) and had a bonfire with Brendan that night (throwing 5+ tires and a vanseat on it, conveniently enough to burn a body) both of which he initially omitted from the details of that night or outright denied.
02-15-2016 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
So:

1. Zipperer planted the bones, cell phone, and Rav4.
Sure, or whoever the killer is/was.

Quote:
2. Cops planted the key and blood (which was shown not to come from the vial by the FBI's "dishonest test").
I don't think there's too many people that don't honestly question the key. The test the FBI did only proved that they didn't find EDTA in the test they ran.

Quote:
3. Culhane (accidentally?) planted Teresa's DNA on the bullet somehow.
I'm not suggesting Culhane did anything maliciously. I think she's sloppy and bad at her job. She has a high contamination rate. She kept other pieces with TH's DNA at her desk. The test itself was contaminated and thus, inconclusive.

Quote:
4. The investigators coerced Brendan into lying that Steven did it.
Yes. Clearly. Again, you don't have to believe that this was part of a big conspiracy, just cops doing what cops do. Do you understand why that law about interviews being filmed was created?


Quote:
On top of that, Steven took off work that afternoon (for what he claims is the first time ever) and had a bonfire with Brendan that night (throwing 5+ tires and a vanseat on it, conveniently enough to burn a body) both of which he initially omitted from the details of that night or outright denied.

My understanding is that he had already planned to take that afternoon off to take Jodi to a planned AA meeting (or some kind of addictions counselling).
02-15-2016 , 11:20 PM
In the bizarro world of this thread, absolutely any random theory is more likely than the one that all the evidence points to. Zipperer, the brother, the ex-bf, Tadych, the cops, serial killer from an hour away... doesn't really matter who killed the poor woman, as long as we can agree it's not the guy with the mountain of evidence against him.

Occam's razor can be your friend here. The boring truth is the guy with the bones in his yard and the key in his bedroom and his blood in her car, murdered a young woman because he's a monster. End of story.
02-15-2016 , 11:26 PM
I bet there were a bunch of people saying very similar things from 1985-2003 about the rape he committed. I mean, the hairs matched and they had a "positive" id, who else could have raped her.

That's the issue with confirmation bias.
02-15-2016 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown Making a Murderer
Had to.

Can you give me even a ball park number as to how many evidence techs there were between both countries? How many were on scene?
I'm interested in this. How many evidence techs does Manitowoc have specifically?

Seems unlikely to me that someone from Calumet specifically asked for Colborn and Lenk to be present.
02-15-2016 , 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown Making a Murderer
WAT?

They keep burn barrels outside there house. How often do they burn things? Daily? Bi-weekly? Weekly?

You don't have to believe anything of the sort.

I haven't seen any evidence that states TH's remains were even burned on Oct 31st. Could have been the 1st, or 2nd or 3rd.

Edit (or 4th, 5th)
According to SA they burn stuff about once every two weeks. And it doesn't matter, she was murdered then burned. We should both agree to that, he had a bonfire going the night she went missing so you have to assume that someone killed her, burned her then dumped her remains into his burn pit which he had going the night she went missing.
02-15-2016 , 11:53 PM
I will stipulate that SA had a fire on Oct 31st.

I fail to see how that makes the bones being planted more/less likely.
02-15-2016 , 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown Making a Murderer
Had to.

Can you give me even a ball park number as to how many evidence techs there were between both countries? How many were on scene?

Now let's go one step further. How many evidence techs from either county had been deposed in a civil lawsuit, brought by the very man who's property/trailer/garage there were searching.
There were less than 70 employed in both counties. I am going to guess that there is little chance 1/10 of them are evidence techs.

I would be willing to bet that less than 10 evidence techs between both counties.

You need an evidence tech to collect evidence, any evidence at all. Otherwise it runs the risk of being collected incorrectly.
02-15-2016 , 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown Making a Murderer
I will stipulate that SA had a fire on Oct 31st.

I fail to see how that makes the bones being planted more/less likely.
It increases the chances that she was burned in his fire pit.. Greatly, her bones were found in that fire pit a little over a week after he had the fire pit. So you have to assume someone killed her after kidnapping her on the 31st then burned her and dumped her remains in his fire pit. All within a little over a week.
02-16-2016 , 12:00 AM
also this:

Quote:
On top of that, Steven took off work that afternoon (for what he claims is the first time ever) and had a bonfire with Brendan that night (throwing 5+ tires and a vanseat on it, conveniently enough to burn a body) both of which he initially omitted from the details of that night or outright denied.

is important
02-16-2016 , 12:01 AM
It isn't as if he was just burning garbage

      
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